Tough Question.....(long)

Ok i need some serious advice here.

Its a looong story so i will give you the highlighted version. A woman I know who lives in the same complex as me and who Ive become friendly with (she invited me to her baby shower) is involved ina domestic violence situation.

The backhistory is she has been with this @ss for 6 years-she is 25 now. She is from pakistan originally so she said that she grew up with violence and accepted it so she never stopped him from beating her before. This TOTALLY blows my mind because personally I don't think ANYONE deservs violence like that against them no matter who you are or what your cultural beliefs are but thats em and I am tring not to judge but it is difficult especially because she's a really sweet woman.

But lets continue here. At 6 months pregnant in december of last eyar apparently, he went after her and afraid for the baby she fought back. She scratched him when he tried to grab her and made it to the room and started throwing his stuff at him telling him to get out. She called 911 but froze when they answered and hung up. Of course they came as they have to by law. but when they came, she went into silent mode and because he knew it was her or him (their apartment she said looked like a hurricaine hit it) he claimed that she tried to kill him. When they asked her if she scartched him she said yes.

I dont know if they were questioned sperately or together but she stupidly said nothing, because she was ahsamed and didnt wnat to speak up. Her b/f gave a signed sworn statement that she tried to kill him with a hammer. which was ridiculous because the girl was 6 months pregnant and she won't kill bugs that coem into the house BUT theyw ere just doing their jobs and he covered his behind.

Now supposedly they had the Grand Jury hearing yesterday but it was postponed? I am not sure how this works so I am just going on what she told me. if anyone has law experience (michelle where are you!) please jump in here. So she wants to get a private lawyer because she feels the public defender cannot adequately defend her. I told her to ask for a new court appointed attorney but she is unsure. can that be done? I don't even know.

-sighs-

So now she has to worry about a record and of course her job should they ever find out.

I am so frustrated because I DO NOT want to be involved in this level of crap. She si not a close enough friend to warrant me being deeply involved but she has no one else here (as most women in abusive domestic situations often find themslevs) and keeps seeking me out.

Her brothers except for one (she has 6) disowned her because they are appparently very traditional and she broke all the major 'rules' of their culture; left the house without being married, had a baby out of wedlock and is living with a man who is not of the same culture. Her eldest brother is the head of the family and she said he will not even allow her to be in the same room with his fiancee or let her meet her because she is dead to him.

Its just a horrible situation.

I do not know how to help her. She has a foot in both worlds; she says she doesnt belive she should be hit because this is American and she doesnt deserve it and she doesnt want her daughter growing up in violence (he even went so far as to say the baby is not his ebcause she didnt put his name on the birth certificate because he was out drinking while she was in labor,, and he let the baby cry until she picked her up.) but then she sounds so resigned. Its really insane. almost robotic. She says 'Well he doesnt always hit me. Sometimes he's ok.'

She never talks about him with love either or fondness like we all do about our DH's. She has no enthusiasm either way. She just seems to exist. So she wants out but doesnt seem to want to GET out. When i told her she should throw his @ss out, she said 'I can't do that. i am not that kind of person. He will have to leave. I am sure he will leave one day. I am over him. I just want it to be done with'

Is this the abuse talking? She is not a stupid woman but she seems so naive. I know nothing about this subject so Im really swimming blind here. She seems afraid of him like when i was over and he cam,e home she kept making excuses for me to stay, but then she eats dinner with him and I and is so casual almost normal. I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

DH thinks we should call the cops and find out annonymously what can be done for her if she decides to get out. I dont want to get further involved.

I need advice ladies. TIA.

Jenn, that's a tough one and I don't blame you for not wanting to get involved.
Not only is this girl a victim of abuse, she is also a victim of her culture.
Maybe like Pete suggested you can contact the police. Go to the local station house and explain the situation and perhaps they can point you to a local domestic abuse agency that can help this girl, if they will do so without her contacting them.

First she needs to help herself and her daughter.

---

Posted by PeteysBride

Ok i need some serious advice here.

Its a looong story so i will give you the highlighted version. A woman I know who lives in the same complex as me and who Ive become friendly with (she invited me to her baby shower) is involved ina domestic violence situation.

The backhistory is she has been with this @ss for 6 years-she is 25 now. She is from pakistan originally so she said that she grew up with violence and accepted it so she never stopped him from beating her before. This TOTALLY blows my mind because personally I don't think ANYONE deservs violence like that against them no matter who you are or what your cultural beliefs are but thats em and I am tring not to judge but it is difficult especially because she's a really sweet woman.

But lets continue here. At 6 months pregnant in december of last eyar apparently, he went after her and afraid for the baby she fought back. She scratched him when he tried to grab her and made it to the room and started throwing his stuff at him telling him to get out. She called 911 but froze when they answered and hung up. Of course they came as they have to by law. but when they came, she went into silent mode and because he knew it was her or him (their apartment she said looked like a hurricaine hit it) he claimed that she tried to kill him. When they asked her if she scartched him she said yes.

I dont know if they were questioned sperately or together but she stupidly said nothing, because she was ahsamed and didnt wnat to speak up. Her b/f gave a signed sworn statement that she tried to kill him with a hammer. which was ridiculous because the girl was 6 months pregnant and she won't kill bugs that coem into the house BUT theyw ere just doing their jobs and he covered his behind.

Now supposedly they had the Grand Jury hearing yesterday but it was postponed? I am not sure how this works so I am just going on what she told me. if anyone has law experience (michelle where are you!) please jump in here. So she wants to get a private lawyer because she feels the public defender cannot adequately defend her. I told her to ask for a new court appointed attorney but she is unsure. can that be done? I don't even know.

-sighs-

So now she has to worry about a record and of course her job should they ever find out.

I am so frustrated because I DO NOT want to be involved in this level of crap. She si not a close enough friend to warrant me being deeply involved but she has no one else here (as most women in abusive domestic situations often find themslevs) and keeps seeking me out.

Her brothers except for one (she has 6) disowned her because they are appparently very traditional and she broke all the major 'rules' of their culture; left the house without being married, had a baby out of wedlock and is living with a man who is not of the same culture. Her eldest brother is the head of the family and she said he will not even allow her to be in the same room with his fiancee or let her meet her because she is dead to him.

Its just a horrible situation.

I do not know how to help her. She has a foot in both worlds; she says she doesnt belive she should be hit because this is American and she doesnt deserve it and she doesnt want her daughter growing up in violence (he even went so far as to say the baby is not his ebcause she didnt put his name on the birth certificate because he was out drinking while she was in labor,, and he let the baby cry until she picked her up.) but then she sounds so resigned. Its really insane. almost robotic. She says 'Well he doesnt always hit me. Sometimes he's ok.'

She never talks about him with love either or fondness like we all do about our DH's. She has no enthusiasm either way. She just seems to exist. So she wants out but doesnt seem to want to GET out. When i told her she should throw his @ss out, she said 'I can't do that. i am not that kind of person. He will have to leave. I am sure he will leave one day. I am over him. I just want it to be done with'

Is this the abuse talking? She is not a stupid woman but she seems so naive. I know nothing about this subject so Im really swimming blind here. She seems afraid of him like when i was over and he cam,e home she kept making excuses for me to stay, but then she eats dinner with him and I and is so casual almost normal. I feel like I am in the twilight zone.

DH thinks we should call the cops and find out annonymously what can be done for her if she decides to get out. I dont want to get further involved.

I need advice ladies. TIA.

---

As someone who was part of an abusive household, OI can say its definitely the abuse talking. She has to want to be helped. She keeps taking him back and making excuses for him, then why should you even get involved? He as to 'leave' himself, he's not going to. She's probably terrified of being alone and having to raise her child alone. Its sounds like a really hard situation. My mom finally woke up one day but not before the damage was done on us and I feel sorry for her child if she ends up growing up in this household. Explain the damage bringing up her child in the envirnoment will do and tell her you dont want to be involved anymore if she isnt willing to take the next step in getting him out. Do you think he could kill her???

I dont have any advice, I can say this-if you have not witnessed the violence against her you really cant get involved. Just b/c she says he beats me or you see her with a black eye really means nothing. I got a black eye a few months ago when my dog slammed into me....you have to actually be a part of it or witness it.

I think she should definitely get herself a private lawyer if she can afford it and explain her fear and WHY she never spoke up when they came to the house.

Otherwise I dont really know what to say.

Hi! my family is from Pakistan. so that makes me...i guess pakistani....

i can understand what she's saying, because divorce rate is SO LOW in Pakistan, because it is really seen as a very bad thing, most of the times, men will not even want to marry a divorcee because she is almost like a 'fallen woman'
while i do not AGREE with this frame of mind, and neither do my parents who have lived and grown up in Pakistan, there are people out there that still have this i would say 'backward' mentality....sometimes things simply do not work out between two people...and u cant let culture play in it

and i am certain when she tells her mother n father these things...they probably just tell her 'to try and make it work' which is really sad....
he sounds very abusive, and will continue to hit her, if he doesnt have any mercy or remorse that she is PREGNANT and running after her, whose to say hes going to change later?

Your a really nice person for trying to help her and intervene, i honestly dont know what you can do? does she want to leave him? or shes just willing to bear the abuse?

Deep down she probably doesnt like him, but shes just tolerating him....

---

Posted by Songstress

I dont know if you ever watched that Oprah where the woman was being beaten on camera in front of her kids. The only reason her husband was convicted was because the woman at her job had documented on her calendar everytime she showed up to work with bruises. Maybe you should do this. Document everytime you know he hits her just in case.

---

I'll defiently try that. she never has bruises on her face wghich is why until she admitted it to me I had NO clue but everyone else we carpool with did. Its crazy. I never llook for malice from people because Im not malicious so it just never occurrred to me. But when she's worn short sleeves in front of me, all you see is bruises.

I am glad you finally got out of that abusive household.

---

Posted by luvabul

Hi! my family is from Pakistan. so that makes me...i guess pakistani....

i can understand what she's saying, because divorce rate is SO LOW in Pakistan, because it is really seen as a very bad thing, most of the times, men will not even want to marry a divorcee because she is almost like a 'fallen woman'
while i do not AGREE with this frame of mind, and neither do my parents who have lived and grown up in Pakistan, there are people out there that still have this i would say 'backward' mentality....sometimes things simply do not work out between two people...and u cant let culture play in it

and i am certain when she tells her mother n father these things...they probably just tell her 'to try and make it work' which is really sad....
he sounds very abusive, and will continue to hit her, if he doesnt have any mercy or remorse that she is PREGNANT and running after her, whose to say hes going to change later?

Your a really nice person for trying to help her and intervene, i honestly dont know what you can do? does she want to leave him? or shes just willing to bear the abuse?

Deep down she probably doesnt like him, but shes just tolerating him....

---

I think you hit it on the head. I am trying to put myself in her mindset to understand because to me the idea of ANYONE laying hands on me is just not possible. My husband would NEVER hit me. So hearing her talk about it in the same tone of voice she might use to discuss the weather rattles me.

Once in awhile she will get fired up and sayd 'Its not right! I don't deserve this' But she loses her steam very quickly and as you said, she seems to just tolerate the situation with resignation because she considers herself essentially married in word if not deed and to walk away is not done.

Thanks guys. I am just going to keep away from it as much as possible because I cant help her if she refuses to get ehrself out of that house.

---

Posted by PeteysBride

---

Posted by Songstress

I dont know if you ever watched that Oprah where the woman was being beaten on camera in front of her kids. The only reason her husband was convicted was because the woman at her job had documented on her calendar everytime she showed up to work with bruises. Maybe you should do this. Document everytime you know he hits her just in case.

---

I'll defiently try that. she never has bruises on her face wghich is why until she admitted it to me I had NO clue but everyone else we carpool with did. Its crazy. I never llook for malice from people because Im not malicious so it just never occurrred to me. But when she's worn short sleeves in front of me, all you see is bruises.

I am glad you finally got out of that abusive household.

---

Unfortunately, anytime I see a bruise or bruises on a woman my first thought is 'are they being abused'

Look up statistics on children who were raised in abusive households. Maybe if she realizes how badly it can affect her daughter, she will get out. I have horrible anxiety as a result of it.

Edited for too much info. lol It felt good typing all of it out but just too much info!

I am so sorry to hear about your friend I recommend that you call the Victim's Information Bureau for info and support. They have a 24-hour hotline-- 631-360-3606. I know that they're in NY, but they can still be helpful. Good luck.

VIBS

This is such a difficult situation. I think most, if not all, of us here would say that we would neverrrrr stay in an abusive relationship - the problem is that this is not always the case. So mant different things affect the way someone reacts to being abused and it seems that in the case of your friend, her entire upbringing and the fact that she now has a child by him is making it impossible for her to be proactive.

I feel really bad for her - I can't imagine being imprisoned in such a bad situation/relationship because of my beliefs or child etc. She really is going to have to take some steps on her own to get out - or at least to not have a criminal record for defending herself from this jerk. She should def. get an attorney who can properly represent and defend her.

Be a friend as much as you can. If you ever hear ANYTHING from her apt, place an anonymous call to 911. Or like suggested, document every single time you see bruises on her.

---

Posted by LoveRocks

I am so sorry to hear about your friend I recommend that you call the Victim's Information Bureau for info and support. They have a 24-hour hotline-- 631-360-3606. I know that they're in NY, but they can still be helpful. Good luck.

VIBS

---

Oh this is great. I didnt't know where to start but this is a place. I can at leats gather info and just keep giving it to her..maybe at some point it will sink in.

I used to work for the Nassau County Coalition Against Domestic Violence. If she calls them, they will try to hook her up with a local NJ organization.

516-572-0700
516-542-0404 hotline

---

Posted by rmsgirl

I used to work for the Nassau County Coalition Against Domestic Violence. If she calls them, they will try to hook her up with a local NJ organization.

516-572-0700
516-542-0404 hotline

---

Thank you.

i feel so bad for your neighbor!
that is horrible!
unfortunately, as much as you don't want to get in the middle, you might be this woman's only saving grace.
and she needs to start documenting everything!
have her take pics, file reports against him, write in a journal etc.
she has to build a case against him.

i feel so bad! i wish her luck!
good luck to you too Jenn.

if it were me and i made an effort to help a person out and they went right back to the scum that abused her, i'd just wish them the best and take a few steps back.

if she doesn't want to be helped, there's not much you can do. the first step is admitting there's a problem and if she's sticking up for him, that doesn't leave you with much.

sorry chica - i know you wanna help but it's best to not get frustrated and let it be. everything happens for a reason

wow thats a tough one! Im sorry I dont have any advice as I dont have any experience with that sort of thin, but I think it is very nice of you to try and help her. I can see that it must be frustrating trying to help someone who wont leave.

No worries Jenn-here I am!

She should apply for Legal Aid. There are ways to get any statements supressed (like if she gave it under duress, which it sounds like)

There is also case law in New York State that protect victims of DV that defend themselves.

She should also get hooked up with a counselor for DV through an agency like VIBS. They can get her counseling and a panic button.

Explain to her if you can that even if she is okay in criminal court, she has to be careful, because child protective services could move against her if she fails to protect herself and her child from a man who is violent.

FM me with details and I can help more.

As per public defenders, if the court appoints one, you cannot change the person. She can hire her own attorney of course, but sometimes, it is better to stick with a court appointed attorney, since we tend to know the insides and outsides of court! If she feels that her attorney is completely incompetent and can prove that he/she is not doing their job at all, she can perhaps ask for a different attorney.

Also, she will not have a record unless she goes to trial and loses or if she pleas to something else. A Grand Jury must indict her first anyway. But her lawyer should be apprised of the laws protecting the prosecution of victims of domestic violence. The name of the case is slipping my mind right now. I will definitely let you know when it comes back to me!

HTH