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What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

jtgarsik Posted:

What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

So although in some parts this article appears to be blunt, i can't help but agree with a lot of it. I dont think the author is trying to be mean...i think he's just trying to say 'why are people being unaware that this man led a very sad life' sort of thing.... i dont know. While i know people should just stop talking about it because yes, he DID obviously lead & end a very sad life that many were unaware of, and we should let his family be at peace and stop hearing about it, i do get what he's sayin. i dont know - i would love to hear opinions on it! ps: i know it's long, but try to read the whole thing if u're going to cast an opinion - i know the opening statement is bold, but a lot of it really makes sense..


BY ERIC P. LUCAS | Eric P. Lucas lives in Seattle. This article first appeared in the Los Angeles Times.

August 4, 2008


It's time to stop the canonization of Heath Ledger. He's not a tragic hero. He's not a beautiful martyr. He's just a pretty good actor who did away with himself and broke the hearts of his family and friends, and he shouldn't get an Academy Award to memorialize his death.

Ledger's brief career culminated in his portrayal of the Joker in 'The Dark Knight,' a role that at first seems compelling ('mesmerizing,' critics have fawned) but ultimately devolves into a can-can dance of snuffling pseudo-psychopathia. It has all the subtlety of a hangover - exactly what I'd expect from someone who headed home every night to a pill party. Still, 'The Dark Knight' has soared to unprecedented success, and Ledger's name is mentioned incessantly for an Oscar.

The current mania joins Ledger to a long line of creative figures who committed the ultimate failure and are, unfortunately, all the more famous for it: Dylan Thomas, Hank Williams, Jackson Pollock, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, John Belushi, Janis Joplin. Some drank themselves to death, some overdosed, some ran their cars off the road.

As the saying goes in AA, the stories are the same, only the details are different.



'I want to live fast, love hard, die young and leave a beautiful memory,' Faron Young sang in a 1955 hit, unwittingly encapsulating this fatal phenomenon. People of every walk of life die from drugs and alcohol, but only a celebrity's death gets so heated in a devil's crucible of public sentiment that it is transformed into posthumous glory. And such adulation begets a mass social hysteria that continues the cycle.

The pre-eminent example is the deification of Hendrix. How many young men pick up a guitar to emulate him, and wind up under a bridge with a bottle of Colt 45 picking out a wobbly solo on a tinny set of strings? I see them every day in downtown Seattle.

Hendrix worship inspired billionaire Paul Allen to build a museum: Seattle's Experience Music Project. An exhibit there explains how Hendrix created his unique sound but equivocates his death in an utterly irresponsible fashion: 'Hendrix's creative journey was cut short by an accidental overdose of sleeping pills.' (Nine sleeping pills, accompanied by barrels of wine; he choked to death on his own vomit.) The Hendrix monument at a cemetery south of Seattle says nothing at all about his death. It's as if the angels just took him away to the big amplifier pile in the sky.

In all the posthumous swooning over Ledger, I read repeatedly how his death, too, was 'accidental.' But the medical examiner's toxicology report listed a bucket of addictive, mood-altering substances in his body, from antihistamines to Xanax. None of them got there by accident.

After Ledger died in January, one distraught fan posted on the Internet that he 'will go down alongside James Dean and River Phoenix as great talents who were so cruelly taken away just as they started to show how damn good they were!' But these guys weren't 'taken away.' Phoenix OD'd on cocaine and heroin. Dean died in a car crash after a short, fast life of drugs and alcohol. They took themselves away. It's a simple thing to find help for drug and alcohol abuse these days. Millions have done it, including me, and although not easy, it represents the only way to live with the integrity we owe ourselves, our families and the world around us.

Last year, I visited the hamlet in Wales through which poet Dylan Thomas caroused. At an inn from which he was evicted (for stealing beer), I learned that down the street lived an old lady who had known him. Go knock on her door, I was urged.

So I did.

Gladys didn't hear so well, but when I finally conveyed the idea that I was curious about Dylan Thomas, she laughed and said, 'Well, he was just a common drunk, wasn't he?' I could say the same of Ledger.

Film critic Ty Burr, trying to untangle this heady mix of big box office and public mourning, wrote, 'This is less about hype than about the gentle madness of crowds.'

Nothing gentle about it: Each year more than 100,000 Americans die of alcohol or drug abuse. It would be madness to commemorate one such death with the greatest honor in cinema. Please give the Academy Award to someone who's had the courage to stick around
MJDoc12 Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

i get what he's trying to say and all...but my only thing is that we only ASSUME things about his life....and none of us or the tabloids know the entire story behind it.

some say he was continuing to have problems with drugs....while others say he had stopped doing drugs and had been on prescription meds for his anxiety.....while others say he was a tortured artist who hated his fame and couldn't take it......and it goes on and on and on.

who is the author of the article to say whether or not he was a good person or not or someone for us not to be sad over his death? i thought heath was a good actor and yes his performance in the Dark Knight was awesome----so why can't i say its a shame he's gone cause he did have promise? i don't think he should be forever remembered in a statue of 24 kt gold, but hey if people feel sad about his passing....they have every right to be and celebrate whatever life he had.

in the end he was a still a regular guy who had problems like so many of us.........and maybe it was because he was very anti-hollywood that people related to him. you could find him with his daughter walking thru NYC on a regular day -- and from what i've read and seen interviews with people who worked with him.....he always was a nice guy who treated everyone on a set equal. i just don't get why people have to come down so hard on him because he had issues previously with drugs. and no one knows for sure what exactly happened to him with his overdose----one side says it was accidental and one side says it was on purpose.......but either way it was tragic and sad.

i feel like the author of that article wasn't a fan of heather ledger to begin with and probably hates that he is seeing people give such attention to him in his death.



ETA: and the whole thing about being annoyed that he might get an Oscar for his performance....um there have been PLENTY of oscar winnerrs who have issues with drugs & boozing---so because they didn't die, its okay?
jtgarsik Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by MJDoc12

i get what he's trying to say and all...but my only thing is that we only ASSUME things about his life....and none of us or the tabloids know the entire story behind it.

some say he was continuing to have problems with drugs....while others say he had stopped doing drugs and had been on prescription meds for his anxiety.....while others say he was a tortured artist who hated his fame and couldn't take it......and it goes on and on and on.

who is the author of the article to say whether or not he was a good person or not or someone for us not to be sad over his death? i thought heath was a good actor and yes his performance in the Dark Knight was awesome----so why can't i say its a shame he's gone cause he did have promise? i don't think he should be forever remembered in a statue of 24 kt gold, but hey if people feel sad about his passing....they have every right to be and celebrate whatever life he had.

in the end he was a still a regular guy who had problems like so many of us.........and maybe it was because he was very anti-hollywood that people related to him. you could find him with his daughter walking thru NYC on a regular day -- and from what i've read and seen interviews with people who worked with him.....he always was a nice guy who treated everyone on a set equal. i just don't get why people have to come down so hard on him because he had issues previously with drugs. and no one knows for sure what exactly happened to him with his overdose----one side says it was accidental and one side says it was on purpose.......but either way it was tragic and sad.

i feel like the author of that article wasn't a fan of heather ledger to begin with and probably hates that he is seeing people give such attention to him in his death.



WELL SAID. probably everything that i felt. I don't think the author was nessecarily trying to say we shouldn't be sad over his death, but more upset at the fact that we want to celebrate & glorify a very sad story.... and i think that he personally wasn't too happy with his performance in the movie - and is legitamately just trying to say 'why is he getting an ocsar? there are better performances that go beyond this one'

i personally dont think his death was accidental...from tox reports there were all too many of too many drugs in his system. BUT none of us will ever really know i guess..not a tabloid, not a fan, not even his family..only him, and he is gone.

Just really sad.... like you said, he really did have such promise and it's a shame that his life did end the way that it did. Just a very controversal article that i wanted to share & see opinions on.

MeNBobs Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

I see what the guy is saying and to an extent I agree with him. Years ago I saw a quote 'Death Is A Career Move' and it has been true for so many people. I think when people die young they get all this 'glory' associated with their name. James Dean never got to be a fat lonely has been like MArlon Brando. Nirvana were okay then Kurt killed himself and suddenly everyone and their mother was his biggest fan. Pearl jam were just as big then but we don't see 5 posters and t shirts with Eddie Vedder's face on them in Hot Topic. Don't even get me started on Tupac he is the most talented dead guy I know of. I am going off a bit here but I am just saying how true death as a career move has been for so many people.

I really don't get the accidental overdose part either. Either you shoved 20 pills down your throat or you didn't what is accidental about that. I think terms like that help to further glorify the death.
jtgarsik Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by MeNBobs

I see what the guy is saying and to an extent I agree with him. Years ago I saw a quote 'Death Is A Career Move' and it has been true for so many people. I think when people die young they get all this 'glory' associated with their name. James Dean never got to be a fat lonely has been like MArlon Brando. Nirvana were okay then Kurt killed himself and suddenly everyone and their mother was his biggest fan. Pearl jam were just as big then but we don't see 5 posters and t shirts with Eddie Vedder's face on them in Hot Topic. Don't even get me started on Tupac he is the most talented dead guy I know of. I am going off a bit here but I am just saying how true death as a career move has been for so many people.

I really don't get the accidental overdose part either. Either you shoved 20 pills down your throat or you didn't what is accidental about that. I think terms like that help to further glorify the death.



well said again..
irishgrl1017 Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

I really dont know how I feel about the whole thing. I really feel for his daughter. That alone makes me mad that he left a little girl behind b/c of some pills.
I understand how addicting drugs/alcohol are, but I just couldnt imagine choosing that over a child. And I know how often it happens
jtgarsik Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by irishgrl1017

I really dont know how I feel about the whole thing. I really feel for his daughter. That alone makes me mad that he left a little girl behind b/c of some pills.
I understand how addicting drugs/alcohol are, but I just couldnt imagine choosing that over a child. And I know how often it happens



from someone who has a father with addiction, and has seen close family & friends go through it...that is what an addiction does. it consumes you, and 'IT' becomes first. Its very hard because while my father (and others i have watched) have hurt their family, friends, and yes even their children, u ultimately cannot take it personally...it's not something they would ever dream they could do, it's their addiction. and they need & need to want serious help.
irishgrl1017 Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by jtgarsik


Posted by irishgrl1017

I really dont know how I feel about the whole thing. I really feel for his daughter. That alone makes me mad that he left a little girl behind b/c of some pills.
I understand how addicting drugs/alcohol are, but I just couldnt imagine choosing that over a child. And I know how often it happens



from someone who has a father with addiction, and has seen close family & friends go through it...that is what an addiction does. it consumes you, and 'IT' becomes first. Its very hard because while my father (and others i have watched) have hurt their family, friends, and yes even their children, u ultimately cannot take it personally...it's not something they would ever dream they could do, it's their addiction. and they need & need to want serious help.



I hear ya...I know...I have been through it as well...however it still makes me mad that that innocent child will now grow up without a father.
So sad.
jtgarsik Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by irishgrl1017


Posted by jtgarsik


Posted by irishgrl1017

I really dont know how I feel about the whole thing. I really feel for his daughter. That alone makes me mad that he left a little girl behind b/c of some pills.
I understand how addicting drugs/alcohol are, but I just couldnt imagine choosing that over a child. And I know how often it happens



from someone who has a father with addiction, and has seen close family & friends go through it...that is what an addiction does. it consumes you, and 'IT' becomes first. Its very hard because while my father (and others i have watched) have hurt their family, friends, and yes even their children, u ultimately cannot take it personally...it's not something they would ever dream they could do, it's their addiction. and they need & need to want serious help.



I hear ya...I know...I have been through it as well...however it still makes me mad that that innocent child will now grow up without a father.
So sad.



i know
GinaZ Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

I have some things in the artical I agree with. I also dont believe the OD was accidental. He was a grown, educated man and knew taking that much and combo of pills was dangerous and could kill him. I don't think people who do this to themselves should be glorified. It does set a bad example. However, people should also know better than to emulate it. Its obvious he had some problems and that is also very sad, but I don't think it deserves as much public attention as it is getting- but figures since he was in the world of hollywood. But I feel bad that his family can't mourn in peace. It must be hard dealing with their loss while being followed 24 hours a day in one way or another.

However, as for the award, if his performance was good enough for him to be nominated when he is alive, then it should be the same after his death. But he shouldn't recieve it only because of his situation- but for what it is- a great performance. (I havn't seen the film yet, so I can't say if I would give him the award if I was in that position.)
PegaLega Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by GinaZ

I have some things in the artical I agree with. I also dont believe the OD was accidental. He was a grown, educated man and knew taking that much and combo of pills was dangerous and could kill him.



I have to disagree with this, we dont know that he knew mixing those could kill him. If he got some of them illegally there was no doctor to tell him he shouldnt take X with X otherwise he could possibly go into cardiac arrest.

Im not going to say he had a problem or not. Im not him nor did I know him

However, I can tell you I know plenty of people who complain of a massive headache and their friend gives them a vic, someone is complaining about anxiety and they take a valium...it happens all the time. Or someone gives their friend a prescription strength tylenol.

I think that 'we' as a group assume we know b/c we hear stories all the time. I think that he should be known for his career and talked about for what he could do as an actor not how he 'killed' himself.

We all assume, make our opinions on what happened rather then saying maybe he had a problem? Maybe he didnt know how to deal with it? Maybe it WAS in fact an accident~maybe we dont know the whole story.

ETA: did you know that a 200 lb man can take a bottle of 8 Vicodins and survive? and I mean survive as in not OD? I can only take 1 every 4 hours and even then I am loopy
PegaLega Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

This is a very very very sore subject for me. I can see both sides...being and outsider AND someone who has had to go thru a loss that involved and OD.

DH and I had a friend who had gotten in trouble for drugs. He was given a VERY strict warning. Rehab or Jail. He started rehab, they did random testing~he HAD to test clean or he was going to jail. He found a way to keep doing what he was doing and still test clean. Did it hurt him the 4 weeks he had been doing it? Nope. Had he been 'considered' dead 2 times in his life...YEP but this didnt stop him. Well, one night it did hurt him and it did stop him.

Its unfortunate but I would bet had someone told him this time he would kill himself...he would have stopped.

We forget that until we have an addiction that takes hold of our lives we cant make an opinion, I dont care that the guy who wrote it says he was able to break free...great for him. There are people who are deeper involved then him Im sure, there are people who CANT stop because there are no resources for them to go to. I know Heath Ledger had the resources but again we assume he had a problem, maybe he was just going thru a rough time in his life.

DH and I were both given prescription drugs to help with the loss we dealt with, strong drugs too. You fall into a whole new world when a prescription to help you along is needed. Do i think we had a drug problem, NO but do I think that we could have dealt without it...YES! Absolutely, it just makes dealing that much easier. We dont know what battles he had going on~we can only assume b/c of the tabloids
jtgarsik Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

Pegs - i'm not going to quote both of ur posts & then put my little response 'cause it'll be hella long lol...BUT couldn't agree more..i commend u.. if there was a little 'bowing down' emoticon i'd post it for ya
Mrs.NicolaXoXo Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????

Although I do think the author is being very 'blunt' I tend to agree with some of this article as well. Ledger lead a very sad death and ended up dying of a drug overdose (intentional or not). I feel like much of the hype and possible Oscar for Ledger is because of his circumstances and in a way this seems unfair. Although, I did not see the movie, so I could be wrong. Was his role incredible and Oscar worthy??????
Either way,
The award should not be given to him to memorialize his death. It should be given to him for fantastic acting.

Article:
After Ledger died in January, one distraught fan posted on the Internet that he 'will go down alongside James Dean and River Phoenix as great talents who were so cruelly taken away just as they started to show how damn good they were!' But these guys weren't 'taken away.' Phoenix OD'd on cocaine and heroin. Dean died in a car crash after a short, fast life of drugs and alcohol. They took themselves away.'

I think the Author is being too hard on Ledger here. I could see why his fans and loved ones felt this way. Drug addiction and depression are diseases and obviously Ledger was overtaken by them. He needed professional help, it was not his choice at this point, he was not thinking rationally. The whole situation is just very sad and shocking.
Mrs.NicolaXoXo Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by MJDoc12

i get what he's trying to say and all...but my only thing is that we only ASSUME things about his life....and none of us or the tabloids know the entire story behind it.

some say he was continuing to have problems with drugs....while others say he had stopped doing drugs and had been on prescription meds for his anxiety.....while others say he was a tortured artist who hated his fame and couldn't take it......and it goes on and on and on.

who is the author of the article to say whether or not he was a good person or not or someone for us not to be sad over his death? i thought heath was a good actor and yes his performance in the Dark Knight was awesome----so why can't i say its a shame he's gone cause he did have promise? i don't think he should be forever remembered in a statue of 24 kt gold, but hey if people feel sad about his passing....they have every right to be and celebrate whatever life he had.

in the end he was a still a regular guy who had problems like so many of us.........and maybe it was because he was very anti-hollywood that people related to him. you could find him with his daughter walking thru NYC on a regular day -- and from what i've read and seen interviews with people who worked with him.....he always was a nice guy who treated everyone on a set equal. i just don't get why people have to come down so hard on him because he had issues previously with drugs. and no one knows for sure what exactly happened to him with his overdose----one side says it was accidental and one side says it was on purpose.......but either way it was tragic and sad.

i feel like the author of that article wasn't a fan of heather ledger to begin with and probably hates that he is seeing people give such attention to him in his death.



ETA: and the whole thing about being annoyed that he might get an Oscar for his performance....um there have been PLENTY of oscar winnerrs who have issues with drugs & boozing---so because they didn't die, its okay?



You made a lot of great points. I totally agree with all of them. If people want to be sad and celebrate his life, then that is a good thing. It seems like the author was very objective and was not a fan of Ledger.
MJDoc12 Posted:

Re: What do we think of this article regarding Heath Ledger??????


Posted by GinaZ

I have some things in the artical I agree with. I also dont believe the OD was accidental. He was a grown, educated man and knew taking that much and combo of pills was dangerous and could kill him.



As someone who used to be RETARDED in taking many things together -- I can respectively disagree with you. The fact that I am able to type this message to you, knowing the things I used to combine when I was in my hazy drug days....its a freaking miracle. I used to take so many things at the same time, if I listed them here you'd probably at it.....and the entire time I never thought of the consequence, I just needed to take it to get by.

I think he was at this point....if it was accidental or not....I think he was just at a point where he was so dependent on the pills -- he wasn't getting the same effect from them and probably started mixing in hopes it would get the desired effect he was looking for. I know that feeling....its a terrible feeling.

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