Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Yes Sage

Posted by Endlessluv:
I am fully aware that people celebrate it in different ways--FINE--it's totally FINE with me but as a CHRISTIAN it upsets me a little when I see people getting away from what i believe is the true meaning--that's it


If it is FINE with you that others choose to celebrate differently then why get upset? I am not trying to cause problems but, as an agnostic I always feel that I am having to defend my right to be different. I do not tell Christans, Jews , et. al. the appropriate way to celebrate their holidays and if I choose to use the Christmas season as a time for gathering my family together with no metion or thought of a specific religious meaning I should be allowed to do so without people judging my prefence.

I hope I have not offended anyone.

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Posted by halloweenbride04

In my opinion, society is getting way too carried away with the political correctness. A Christmas Tree is a Christmas Tree for various reasons, if you have one in your home call it what you want in YOUR own home but don't force this crap on everyone else. I hope I don't offend anyone but I feel the same way about this as I do about the fact that you can no longer sit 'Indian' style, you have to teach your kids to sit 'pretzel' style.....

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what do you mean by 'getting' the constitution was written in 1787 and it made clear that there was a separation of church and state...

and what if you offend ONE person...I mean think how European 'Americans' treated the native american....I think you would be pretty ticked off that they were making generalizations and derogatory remarks about you

the beginning of this thread was about having a religious symbol on public land...and its simply not legal...(the judge in MI? was DEBARRED for violating this!!!)


as for the song...just from the word 'Ye' you can tell that it was written in a time where the Church controlled the people (remnants of feudalism) as well as knowledge...if I took every song as historic fact - I would be in a lot of trouble!!!

Holy guacomole. I wanna live on a island and run around naked.

All this politically correct stuff makes me nutso

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Posted by yabbobay

as for the song...just from the word 'Ye' you can tell that it was written in a time where the Church controlled the people (remnants of feudalism) as well as knowledge...if I took every song as historic fact - I would be in a lot of trouble!!!

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I agree....just thought it was bit funny considering....Being that I am not religious at all, I had no idea Christ wasn't 'born on Christmas day'

@ Wacky!!

Just dont display a Christmas Tree!!

Found some interesting info on the history of Christmas.


The History of Christmas

The history of Christmas dates back over 4000 years. Many of our Christmas traditions were celebrated centuries before the Christ child was born. The 12 days of Christmas, the bright fires, the yule log, the giving of gifts, carnivals(parades) with floats, carolers who sing while going from house to house, the holiday feasts, and the church processions can all be traced back to the early Mesopotamians.

Many of these traditions began with the Mesopotamian celebration of New Years. The Mesopotamians believed in many gods, and as their chief god - Marduk. Each year as winter arrived it was believed that Marduk would do battle with the monsters of chaos. To assist Marduk in his struggle the Mesopotamians held a festival for the New Year. This was Zagmuk, the New Year's festival that lasted for 12 days.

The Mesopotamian king would return to the temple of Marduk and swear his faithfulness to the god. The traditions called for the king to die at the end of the year and to return with Marduk to battle at his side.

To spare their king, the Mesopotamians used the idea of a 'mock' king. A criminal was chosen and dressed in royal clothes. He was given all the respect and privileges of a real king. At the end of the celebration the 'mock' king was stripped of the royal clothes and slain, sparing the life of the real king.

The Persians and the Babylonians celebrated a similar festival called the Sacaea. Part of that celebration included the exchanging of places, the slaves would become the masters and the masters were to obey.

Early Europeans believed in evil spirits, witches, ghosts and trolls. As the Winter Solstice approached, with its long cold nights and short days, many people feared the sun would not return. Special rituals and celebrations were held to welcome back the sun.

In Scandinavia during the winter months the sun would disappear for many days. After thirty-five days scouts would be sent to the mountain tops to look for the return of the sun. When the first light was seen the scouts would return with the good news. A great festival would be held, called the Yuletide, and a special feast would be served around a fire burning with the Yule log. Great bonfires would also be lit to celebrate the return of the sun. In some areas people would tie apples to branches of trees to remind themselves that spring and summer would return.

The ancient Greeks held a festival similar to that of the Zagmuk/Sacaea festivals to assist their god Kronos who would battle the god Zeus and his Titans.

The Roman's celebrated their god Saturn. Their festival was called Saturnalia which began the middle of December and ended January 1st. With cries of 'Jo Saturnalia!' the celebration would include masquerades in the streets, big festive meals, visiting friends, and the exchange of good-luck gifts called Strenae (lucky fruits).

The Romans decked their halls with garlands of laurel and green trees lit with candles. Again the masters and slaves would exchange places.

'Jo Saturnalia!' was a fun and festive time for the Romans, but the Christians though it an abomination to honor the pagan god. The early Christians wanted to keep the birthday of their Christ child a solemn and religious holiday, not one of cheer and merriment as was the pagan Saturnalia.

But as Christianity spread they were alarmed by the continuing celebration of pagan customs and Saturnalia among their converts. At first the Church forbid this kind of celebration. But it was to no avail. Eventually it was decided that the celebration would be tamed and made into a celebration fit for the Christian Son of God.

Some legends claim that the Christian 'Christmas' celebration was invented to compete against the pagan celebrations of December. The 25th was not only sacred to the Romans but also the Persians whose religion Mithraism was one of Christianity's main rivals at that time. The Church eventually was successful in taking the merriment, lights, and gifts from the Saturanilia festival and bringing them to the celebration of Christmas.

The exact day of the Christ child's birth has never been pinpointed. Traditions say that it has been celebrated since the year 98 AD. In 137 AD the Bishop of Rome ordered the birthday of the Christ Child celebrated as a solemn feast. In 350 AD another Bishop of Rome, Julius I, choose December 25th as the observance of Christmas.

I love Christmas carols Let's sing one

Here is the History of the Christmas Tree



The Christmas Tree

A beautifully decorated evergreen tree, with colored lights ablaze inspires in many warm memories of Christmases long past. The Christmas tree has become one of the most beloved and well know holiday symbols.
The tradition of a holiday tree has been around since ancient times and has played an important part in winter celebrations for many centuries. Many pagan festivals used trees when honoring their gods and spirits. In Northern Europe the Vikings considered the evergreen a symbol and reminder that the darkness and cold of winter would end and the green of spring would return. The Druids of ancient England and France decorated oak trees with fruit and candles to honor their gods of harvests. At the festival Saturnalia the Romans decorated trees with trinkets and candles.

There have also been many legends surrounding the lore of the Christmas tree. In one story Saint Boniface, an English monk, came upon a group of pagans who had gathered around an oak tree and were preparing to sacrifice a child. To stop the sacrifice and save the child, the Saint flattened the oak tree with one blow of his fist. A small fir sprang up in its place, which Saint Boniface told the pagans was the Tree of Life and represented the life of Christ.

Another legend tells of Martin Luther, the founder of the Protestant religion, walking through the woods late one night. As it was clear, many stars were shining through the branches of the trees giving the impression of twinkling lights. Luther was so inspired by the beauty of the sight that he cut down a small evergreen and brought it home. He recreated the stars by putting candles on the tree's branches.

The use of a Christmas tree indoors appears to have begun in Germany. German Christians would bring trees into their homes to decorate. In some areas evergreen trees were scarce so the families would build a Christmas pyramid, simple wooden structures which they decorated with branches and candles.

The tradition of the Christmas tree eventually spread through out Europe. The English Royalty help popularize the tree in England by decorating the first Christmas tree at Windsor Castle in 1841. Prince Albert, husband of Queen Victoria, decorated the first English Christmas Tree with candles, candies, fruits, and gingerbread.

When the German immigrants went to American they also brought along their Christmas trees. In the 1830's most Americans still considered the Christmas tree an oddity. One of the first public displays of a Christmas tree was set up by German Settlers in Pennsylvania. At the time many still considered the tree to be a symbol of pagans and it wasn't until the late 1800's that Americans began accepting the Christmas tree.

Early Christmas trees were often decorated with apples, nuts, cookies, colored popcorn and candles. The invention of electricity in the early 20th century and use of electrical Christmas lights helped spread the use of the Christmas tree.

It is now common in most communities through out the US to feature public displays of Christmas trees. Every year the President of the United States lights the National Christmas Tree in Washington and in New York skaters spin beneath the lighted tree of Rockefeller Center. Through Europe and the rest of the world the Christmas tree has also become readily accepted and adored.

This is what xmas means to Italians, like me

ITALY
'Buon Natale'

Christmas, as it is celebrated in Italy, has two origins: the familiar traditions of Christianity blended with the pagan traditions predating the Christmas era. The greatest feast of the ancient Roman Empire, 'Saturnalia' (a winter solstice celebration), just happens to coincide with the Christmas celebrations of the Advent. Consequently, Christmas fairs, merry-making and torch processions, honor not only the birth of Christ, but also the birth of the 'Unconquered Sun.' 'Natale,' the Italian word for Christmas, is literally the translation for 'birthday.'

A delightful, but rapidly disappearing tradition in Italy, is the ushering in of the coming festivities by the 'Piferari' or fifers. They descend from the mountains of the Abruzzo and Latium playing inviting and characteristic tunes on their bagpipes, filling the air with anticipation for the joyous celebration to come.

Christmas Eve is a time for viewing Italy's artistic and elaborate manger scenes or Cribs. They consist of figurines, in clay or plaster , of the infant Jesus, Mary and Joseph. An ox and ass are nearby because legend has it that they warmed the child with their breath. It is around this basic focal point that individual artisans create their own intricate landscapes. There may be grottoes, small trees, lakes, rivers, the lights of 'Bethlehem' in the background, angels hung from wires, and occasionally, even local heroes. The most beautiful Cribs are set up in churches. There is often a contest between churches of the same town for the best Crib. People go from church to church to view and compare the Cribs and displays.

Another tradition is the burning of the Yule log, which must stay alight until New Year's Day. This, again, is an example of pagan and Christian blending. The pagan belief explains the purifying and revitalizing power of fire, and that with the burning log, the old year and its evils are destroyed. Christian legend tells how the Virgin Mary enters the homes of the humble at midnight while the people are away at Midnight Mass and warms her newborn child before the blazing log.

Amidst the general merrymaking and religious observance of Christmas Eve, Christmas tapers (long slender candles) are lighted and a Christmas banquet is spread. In some places, Christmas Eve dinner consists largely of fish. There may be as many as 10 t 20 fish dishes prepared. In Rome, the traditional dish of Christmas Eve is 'Capitone,' a big female eel, roasted, baked or fried. North of Rome a traditional dish may be pork, sausage packed in a pig's leg, smothered in lentils, or turkey stuffed with chestnuts.

Common throughout Italy are the Christmas sweets: 'panettone' (cake filled with candied fruit), 'torrone' (nougat) and 'panforte' (gingerbread) made with hazelnuts, honey and almonds. All Christmas sweets, as a rule, contain nuts and almonds. Peasant folklore theorizes that to eat nuts favors the fertility of the earth and aids in the increase of flocks and family. In ancient Rome, honey was offered at this time of year so that the new year might be sweet.

Of Special Note...

On Christmas Eve, Italian children set out their shoes for the female Santa Claus, La Befana, to fill with gifts of all kinds like toys, candies and fruit. If the children were good, their shoes would be filled on Christmas morning. If they were bad, they would find their shoes filled with coal. La Befan is the best-known legend in Italy.

Traditional Dishes From Italy...

SPUMETTI (Chocolate-Hazelnut Meringues)

1 lb. hazelnut meats, coarsely chopped
1 lb. confectioner's sugar
1 oz. cocoa (2tbls.)
2 tsps. cinnamon
5-6 egg whites

Preheat oven to 325 F. Cut baking pan liner paper or brown paper to fit 2 baking sheets and grease lightly. Put hazelnuts, confectioner's sugar, cocoa, and cinnamon in a large bowl; add egg whites and mix well until mixture is well blended--about 5 minutes. Wet hands with water and break off small pieces of mixture (about 1 tbl.) and shape into round balls. Place on baking sheets, 1 inch apart, and bake for approximately 30 minutes. Makes approx. 3 ½ dozen.

'ZUCCHINE IN AGRODOLCE'
(Sweet and Sour Zucchini)

3 tbls. olive oil
4 med. zucchini, thinly sliced
2 cloves garlic, crushed
1 tbl. vinegar
¼ cup water
Salt and pepper
3 tbls. pine nuts

In a large skillet, heat oil and sauté garlic for 2 minutes. Add zucchini and sauté on both sides until golden. Sprinkle with pine nuts, raisins, and salt and pepper to taste and simmer for 3 minutes. Mix vinegar with water and pour into skillet; cover and simmer slowly until zucchini is tender--about 10 minutes. Discard garlic; cool and serve at room temperature.

'STRUFFOLI'
(Honey Balls)

2 cups water
1 cup margarine
4 cups sifted flour
¼ tsp. salt
10 large eggs
16 oz. honey
½ cup pine nuts, toasted
1/3 cup candied orange peels
½ cup (multicolored) cake-decorating sprinkles

Preheat oven to 350 F. Grease two baking sheets lightly. Have eggs at room temperature.

Place water, margarine, and salt in a saucepan and bring to broil. Remove from range and cool for 3 minutes. Stir in flour and mix well. Return to heat and cook, stirring constantly, until mixture forms a ball and leaves sides of pan--about 1 minute. Remove from range and cool for 5 minutes. Add eggs to mixture, one at a time, beating hard for approximately 1 minute after each addition. Fill pastry bag with batter and pipe small rounds (the size of marbles) 1 inch apart onto baking sheets. (Or you can drop by half teaspoons onto baking sheets.) Bake until lightly browned--about 25 minutes. Remove from oven and cool on wire racks.

In a saucepan, heat honey until it comes to rolling boil. Boil for 5 minutes, being careful not to let it boil over. Dip puffs, approximately 12 at a time, into honey and roll around to coat evenly. Remove with slotted spoon onto a plate. Continue until all puffs are dipped. Wet hands with cold water and stick puffs together forming wreath rings, pyramids, or dome shapes. Decorate with toasted pine nuts, candied orange peel, and cake-decorating sprinkles.

Bring On the STRUFFOLI!!! One of my Christmas Favorites!

Heres another view

The Chronological History of the Christmas Tree
St. Boniface Story

hy do we have a decorated Christmas Tree? In the 7th century a monk from Crediton, Devonshire, went to Germany to teach the Word of God. He did many good works there, and spent much time in Thuringia, an area which was to become the cradle of the Christmas Decoration Industry.

Legend has it that he used the triangular shape of the Fir Tree to describe the Holy Trinity of God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The converted people began to revere the Fir tree as God's Tree, as they had previously revered the Oak. By the 12th century it was being hung, upside-down, from ceilings at Christmastime in Central Europe, as a symbol of Christianity.

The first decorated tree was at Riga in Latvia, in 1510. In the early 16th century, Martin Luther is said to have decorated a small Christmas Tree with candles, to show his children how the stars twinkled through the dark night.



Christmas Markets

In the mid 16th century, Christmas markets were set up in German towns, to provide everything from gifts, food and more practical things such as a knife grinder to sharpen the knife to carve the Christmas Goose! At these fairs, bakers made shaped gingerbreads and wax ornaments for people to buy as souvenirs of the fair, and take home to hang on their Christmas Trees.

The best record we have is that of a visitor to Strasbourg in 1601. He records a tree decorated with 'wafers and golden sugar-twists (Barleysugar) and paper flowers of all colours'. The early trees were biblically symbolic of the Paradise Tree in the Garden of Eden. The many food items were symbols of Plenty, the flowers, originally only red (for Knowledge) and White (for Innocence).

Tinsel

Tinsel was invented in Germany around 1610. At that time real silver was used, and machines were invented which pulled the silver out into the wafer thin strips for tinsel. Silver was durable, but tarnished quickly, especially with candlelight. Attempts were made to use a mixture of lead and tin, but this was heavy and tended to break under its own weight so was not so practical. So silver was used for tinsel right up to the mid-20th century.

The First English Trees

The Christmas Tree first came to England with the Georgian Kings who came from Germany. At this time also, German Merchants living in England decorated their homes with a Christmas Tree. The British public were not fond of the German Monarchy, so did not copy the fashions at Court, which is why the Christmas Tree did not establish in Britain at that time. A few families did have Christmas trees however, probably more from the influence of their German neighbours than from the Royal Court.



The decorations were Tinsels, silver wire ornaments, candles and small beads. All these had been manufactured in Germany and East Europe since the 17th century. The custom was to have several small trees on tables, one for each member of the family, with that persons gifts stacked on the table under the tree.

The Victorian and Albert Tree


In 1846, the popular Royals, Queen Victoria and her German Prince, Albert, were illustrated in the Illustrated London News. They were standing with their children around a Christmas Tree. Unlike the previous Royal family, Victoria was very popular with her subjects, and what was done at Court immediately became fashionable - not only in Britain, but with fashion-conscious East Coast American Society. The English Christmas Tree had arrived!

Decorations were still of a 'home-made' variety. Young Ladies spent hours at Christmas Crafts, quilling snowflakes and stars, sewing little pouches for secret gifts and paper baskets with sugared almonds in them. Small bead decorations, fine drawn out silver tinsel came from Germany together with beautiful Angels to sit at the top of the tree. Candles were often placed into wooden hoops for safety.

Mid-Victorian Tree

In 1850's Lauscha began to produce fancy shaped glass bead garlands for the trees, and short garlands made from necklace 'bugles' and beads. These were readily available in Germany but not produced in sufficient quantities to export to Britain. The Rauschgoldengel was a common sight. Literally, 'Tingled-angel', bought from the Thuringian Christmas markets, and dressed in pure gilded tin.

The 1860's English Tree had become more innovative than the delicate trees of earlier decades. Small toys were popularly hung on the branches, but still most gifts were placed on the table under the tree.

Around this time, the Christmas tree was spreading into other parts of Europe. The Mediterranean countries were not too interested in the tree, preferring to display only a Creche scene. Italy had a wooden triangle platform tree called as 'CEPPO'. This had a Creche scene as well as decorations.

The German tree was beginning to suffer from mass destruction! It had become the fashion to lop off the tip off a large tree to use as a Christmas Tree, which prevented the tree from growing further. Statutes were made to prevent people having more than one tree.

Just as the first trees introduced into Britain did not immediately take off, the early trees introduced into America by the Hessian soldiers were not recorded in any particular quantity. The Pennsylvanian German settlements had community trees as early as 1747.

America being so large, tended to have 'pockets' of customs relating to the immigrants who had settled in a particular area, and it was not until the communications really got going in the 19th century, that such customs began to spread. Thus references to decorated trees in America before about the middle of the 19th century are very rare.

By the 1870's, Glass ornaments were being imported into Britain from Lauscha, in Thuringia. It became a status symbol to have glass ornaments on the tree, the more one had, the better ones status! Still many home-made things were seen. The Empire was growing, and the popular tree topper was the Nation's Flag, sometimes there were flags of the Empire and flags of the allied countries. Trees got very patriotic.

They were imported into America around 1880, where they were sold through stores such as FW Woolworth. They were quickly followed by American patents for electric lights (1882), and metal hooks for safer hanging of decorations onto the trees (1892)

High Victorian Trees

The 1880's saw a rise of the Aesthetic Movement. At this time Christmas Trees became a glorious hotchpotch of everything one could cram on; or by complete contrast the aesthetic trees which were delicately balanced trees, with delicate colours, shapes and style. they also grew to floor standing trees. The limited availability of decorations in earlier decades had kept trees by necessity to, usually table trees. Now with decorations as well as crafts more popular than ever, there was no excuse. Still a status symbol, the larger the tree - the more affluent the family which sported it.

The High Victorian of the 1890's was a child's joy to behold! As tall as the room, and crammed with glitter and tinsel and toys galore. Even the 'middleclasses' managed to over-decorate their trees. It was a case of 'anything goes'. Everything that could possibly go on a tree went onto it.

By 1900 themed trees were popular. A colour theme set in ribbons or balls, a topical idea such as an Oriental Tree, or an Egyptian Tree. They were to be the last of the great Christmas Trees for some time. With the death of Victoria in 1901, the Nation went into mourning and fine trees were not really in evidence until the nostalgia of the Dickensian fashion of the 1930's.

The American Tree

In America, Christmas Trees were introduced into several pockets - the German Hessian Soldiers took their tree customs in the 18th century. In Texas, Cattle Barons from Britain took their customs in the 19th century, and the East Coast Society copied the English Court tree customs.

Settlers from all over Europe took their customs also in the 19th century. Decorations were not easy to find in the shanty towns of the West, and people began to make their own decorations. Tin was pierced to create lights and lanterns to hold candles which could shine through the holes. Decorations of all kinds were cutout, stitched and glued. The General Stores were hunting grounds for old magazines with pictures, rolls of Cotton Batting (Cotton Wool), and tinsel, which was occasionally sent from Germany or brought in from the Eastern States. The Paper 'Putz' or Christmas Crib was a popular feature under the tree, especially in the Moravian Dutch communities which settled in Pennsylvania.

The British tree in the 20th century

After Queen Victoria died, the country went into mourning, and the tree somehow died with her for a while in many homes. While some families and community groups still had large tinsel strewn trees, many opted for the more convenient table top tree. These were available in a variety of sizes, and the artificial tree, particularly the Goose Feather Tree, became popular. These were originally invented in the 1880's in Germany, to combat some of the damage being done to Fir trees in the name of Christmas.

In America, the Addis Brush Company created the first brush trees, using the same machinery which made their toilet brushes! These had an advantage over the feather tree in that they would take heavier decorations.

After 1918, because of licensing and export problems, Germany was not able to export its decorations easily. The market was quickly taken up by Japan and America, especially in Christmas Tree lights.

Britain's Tom Smith Cracker Company which has exported Christmas goods for over three decades, began to manufacture trees themselves for a short while.

In the 1930's There was a revival of Dickensian nostalgia, particularly in Britain. Christmas cards all sported Crinoline ladies with muffs and bonnets popular in the 1840's. Christmas Trees became large, and real again, and were decorated with many bells, balls and tinsels, and with a beautiful golden haired angel at the top. But wartime England put a stop to many of these trees. It was forbidden to cut trees down for decoration, and with so many raids, many people preferred to keep their most precious heirloom Christmas tree decorations carefully stored away in metal boxes, and decorated only a small tabletop tree with home-made decorations, which could be taken down into the shelters for a little Christmas cheer, when the air-raid sirens went.

Large trees were erected however in public places to give moral to the people at this time.

Postwar Britain saw a revival of the nostalgic again. people needed the security of Christmas, which is so unchanging in a changing world, as one of the symbols to set them back on their feet. Trees were as large as people could afford. Many poorer families still used the tabletop Goosefeather trees, Americas Addis Brush Trees were being imported into Britain, and these became immensely popular for a time. But the favourites were still real trees. The popular decorations were all produced by a British manufacturer, Swanbrand. and sold by FW Woolworth in Britain. Translucent plastic lock together shapes, Honeycomb paper Angels, 'glow-in the -dark icicles; also Polish glass balls and birds In South Wales, where real trees were often difficult to find in the rural areas, Holly Bushes were decorated.

The mid-1960's saw another change. A new world was on the horizon, and modernist ideas were everywhere. Silver aluminium trees were imported from America. The 'Silver Pine' tree, patented in the 1950's, was designed to have a revolving light source under it, with coloured gelatine 'windows, which allowed the light to shine in different shades as it revolved under the tree. No decorations were needed for this tree.

Decorations became sparse. Glass balls and lametta created an 'elegant' modern tree. Of course, many families ignored fashion and carried on putting their own well loved decorations on their trees!

America made a return to Victorian nostalgia in the 1970's, and it was a good decade later that Britain followed the fashion. By the at first this was a refreshing look, and manufacturers realising the potential created more and more fantastic decorations. Some American companies specialised in antique replicas, actually finding the original makers in Europe to recreate wonderful glass ornaments, real silver tinsels and pressed foil 'Dresdens'.

Real Christmas Trees were popular, but many housewives preferred the convenience of the authentic looking artificial trees which were being manufactured. If your room was big enough, you could have a 14 foot artificial Spruce right there in your living room, without a single dropped needle - and so good that it fooled everyone at first glance. There are even pine scented sprays to put on the tree for that 'real tree smell'!

The late 1990's tree has taken the Victorian idea, but with new themes and conceptual designs. The Starry Starry Night Tree, The Twilight Tree, The Snow Queen Tree.....

These trees are still with us - what will the new millennium bring? Well, I do have some inside knowledge - but its a secret! Watch this space!

Christmas Archives' Store now open - fantastic one-off designer trees & decorations

mmmmmm, me wants honey balls! I loooove honey!

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Posted by wacky

Of Special Note...

On Christmas Eve, Italian children set out their shoes for the female Santa Claus, La Befana, to fill with gifts of all kinds like toys, candies and fruit. If the children were good, their shoes would be filled on Christmas morning. If they were bad, they would find their shoes filled with coal. La Befan is the best-known legend in Italy.

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OH Germans do this too...but we do it on December 5th (St. Nicks night)...we would leave our xmas list for santa to come and he would leave us a present...(supposed to be candy...but my mom would give us an early xmas gift)

and she said my st nicks night gift (and one for DH too!) is in the mail!!! woo hoo!!!


Wacky...where were you for the holiday recipe swap????

Hey Yabbo

When we were younger my parents really di the La Befan, but as we became older and my parents americanzied themselves it went out the door.

Yabbo I dont do recipes or anything to do with cooking.

quoted from heidla 'if it is FINE with you, then why get upset?'

It is FINE with me and I'm not upset-just a little frustrated--man o man-this is why i never state my opinion on here--can't tell my tone of voice online, i was not saying it in a 'pointing my finger @ you who don't believe in God' tone--ok merry christmas to all who want to celebrate-and it doesn't matter that Christ wasn't born on dec 25th, that's when we celebrate it, point is we who celebrate it that way-believe it happened-that's all that matter:)

btw, thanks tammyjill & shamma

endless...I agree...however you want to celebrate on non-public land is great with me...as long as you are not sacrificing humans or dogs...its all good...

Exactly!!!! Let's just all celebrate in our own way and enjoy whatever this season means or does not mean to each of us.

agreed! yabbobay & heidla & all others-- let's all enjoy the season in our own ways and respect all others---please do not think I was @ all trying to shove my beliefs down anyone's throat-

friends