I just read on CNN that Greenspan is suggesting that Social Security Benefits for future retirees (meaning US) should be reduced because of the budget defecit. Meanwhile, our budget is in defecit b/c of the decrease in taxes to the rich. But he says, don't worry about increasing taxes, just decrease benefits.
I KNEW this was going to happen
This is just fabulous- we don't get $ we have paid into the system with- yet people making 1 million a year or more are receiving tax cuts.
What really pisses me off are people who vote for Bush and have no idea what really is going on because he is pulling the wool over America's eyes..
President Bush would be very very happy (and so would his crony Karl Rove) if we went back to the 1920s- no social security, no unemployement, no medicare, no nothing.
It's really really sad.
These are the issues we need to vote on. What's done is done in Iraq- I don't think anyone is going to pull our troops out of there now. But what about our economy? It's going into the toilet while we are busy watching CNN's Iraq reports!!!
verdila
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
I just think that when you reach retirement and IF you have a substantial amount of money already saved from other areas which you NEED to do anyway since SS isnt much - it can be up to you maybe to give it back. Do you really need social security if you are very well off - I am talking about well off people here?? !!
God knows Bill Gates doesnt need it! Soooo I was just suggesting since we have a huge trillion dollar deficit that perhaps people like him can give back their SS dollars to the GOVT so it can be dispersed out to people who REALLY NEED THE MONEY to live.
ETA: And it can be a decision we make when we retire of course....maybe give some kind of tax break to people who choose to do this.
I just think that when you reach retirement and IF you have a substantial amount of money already saved from other areas which you NEED to do anyway since SS isnt much - it can be up to you maybe to give it back. Do you really need social security if you are very well off - I am talking about well off people here?? !!
God knows Bill Gates doesnt need it! Soooo I was just suggesting since we have a huge trillion dollar deficit that perhaps people like him can give back their SS dollars to the GOVT so it can be dispersed out to people who REALLY NEED THE MONEY to live.
this is the way capitalism should work...that the wealthy and business owners give back...like Andrew Carnegie...
Jordan
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
In theory I think that sounds good verdila...but I don't think it's right or honest. When we reach a certain age, we're going to need all the money we can get (think medical bills, hospital costs, nurses, etc.) - regardless of how weathy you are. You can't penalize those who are financially successful. You know? There has to be a better solution.
I just don't think it's fair to tell Bill Gates to give his hard earned money to someone less fortunate. If he WANTS to - which he does a lot - then that's another story...but to force him to, is just not right.
ETA: posted that before you edited.
Sassyz75
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Oh please- the only reason why bill has all that $ is because he was pretty much given a legal monopoly
alina
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Someone above mentioned of going back to 1920's... As far as ability to save and invest, our nation has significantly progressed since then. You now don't need to have a personal broker in order to invest, a computer and a few $$$ is enough, which is very different from back then...
Whether people choose to do that or not, is a whole other story. And while I think that having SS# is necessary for some people, majority should be able to save on their own via 401K's and other vehicles.
michele31
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
SS is nothing more (now) than a pymraid scheme- and those are illegal. Put money in...and maybe, maybe you will get some back someday. It is becoming a tax instead of a 'savings' program.
I believe in the orginal concept of SS but once again, our elected morons have trashed that very important program.
I don't think that many people can save on their own to be honest. The median income in our country for a family of 4 is around $35k or so. How does a single mom put money away in a 401K when she can barely pay the rent on her 2 bedroom apt and put food on the table plus pay the high cost of daycare? Or how about the dual income family that gets no financial aid for their child's college education, even though most families do not have an extra $20K per year hanging around? And when coporations like Eron purposely bankrupt 401K plans who will help those people? Our taxes will just go up to provide money to live for those people. SS is the only way that people will save for the retirement years.
In theory I think that sounds good verdila...but I don't think it's right or honest. When we reach a certain age, we're going to need all the money we can get (think medical bills, hospital costs, nurses, etc.) - regardless of how weathy you are. You can't penalize those who are financially successful. You know? There has to be a better solution.
I just don't think it's fair to tell Bill Gates to give his hard earned money to someone less fortunate. If he WANTS to - which he does a lot - then that's another story...but to force him to, is just not right.
ETA: posted that before you edited.
you almost sound like a Republican here...
Becky
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Posted by yabbobay
Posted by Jordan
In theory I think that sounds good verdila...but I don't think it's right or honest. When we reach a certain age, we're going to need all the money we can get (think medical bills, hospital costs, nurses, etc.) - regardless of how weathy you are. You can't penalize those who are financially successful. You know? There has to be a better solution.
I just don't think it's fair to tell Bill Gates to give his hard earned money to someone less fortunate. If he WANTS to - which he does a lot - then that's another story...but to force him to, is just not right.
ETA: posted that before you edited.
you almost sound like a Republican here...
I was thinking the same thing, Erica.
Sassyz75
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Yes everyone should put money aside.. but the fact is, we are having money taken out of our paychecks for this.. ask your Grandparents if they could do without their social security ladies- I'm sure they'll say no.. I know mine would. The point is- social security is engrained in this country now- especially after the great depression. It's not realistic to expect regular people to gain all of their retirement monies in 401k/IRA especially after the whole Enron thing...
The bottom line is this, 'That a Social Security Card is not a private portfolio statement but a membership in a society where we all contribute to a common treasury so that none need face the indignities of poverty in old age without that help... Public services, when privatized, serve only those who can afford them and weaken the sense that we all rise and fall together as 'one nation, indivisible'' - Bill Moyers
alina
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Posted by Sassyz75
It's not realistic to expect regular people to gain all of their retirement monies in 401k/IRA especially after the whole Enron thing...
Sassyz, but didn't Enron employees lose $$$ b/c a lot of was either Enron's stock, or Enron's own investment funds?
Many companies now offer you an ability to pick your 'mutual funds' for the 401K, which offers you a lot choice and unless market will crash and stay down for 40-45 years, you should see your $ growing about 8-10% (according to historical rates). So now, employees have the investment choices to make, rather than receiving a guaranteed return from the employer as was true in the past.
ChristineC68
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
And at the same point, it's not realistic to expect SS to cover our living expenses when we retire.
Since we know that SS will not cover our living expenses when we retire, isn't it better to do something instead of nothing? Even $5 a week will add up to something one day.
Becky
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Posted by ChristineC68
Even $5 a week will add up to something one day.
Good, because that is all I can afford to put aside right now
verdila
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
The last 2 companies I have worked for have always given us external fund options with our 401ks as well as a company match, my 401K is managed by Fidelity Investments and I have been investing almost 10% of my salary for almost 8 yrs so I ahev a pretty good chunk saved.
That said though, I think one of the things that happened with Enron was that the company 'encouraged' people to invest in Enron rather than outside funds, and this was why people lost everything - especially at the end when the execs knew the stock was falling and they sold out but didnt tell their employees.
If all we are going to have are company managed 401k plans then we need some kind of regulation and I think there is some work going on in this area right now? I think I once read that it is bad to invest your entire 401k in your own company stock, no matter how good it seems.
Sassyz75
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Yes the Enron people did own a majority of Enron stocks- but what about those who own stocks or mutual funds with shares of Enron, or MCI or the plethora of other companies that practiced accounting fraud in order to allow the top executives to make the most money while allowing the masses to lose their shirts... I also know a lot of people who had 20,000-50,000 worth of stocks in companies that didn't have any accounting problems- just tanked with the market- and all that money evaporated- should they suffer and be poor and not have SS?
No it isn't realistic to expect SS to cover our living expenses, BUT I think they it is necessary and helpful to older people. I know my grandparent's social security pays for their rent.. they both STILL have jobs to make ends meet.
Any type of savings plan (especially stock/401k/mutual fund) are not guaranteed... That's why we have something called a social safety net- the same way having a job isn't guaranteed- and that is why we have unemployment insurance.
As you know, the only way to get the $ is to pay into the system.. so if one does pay into the system, I don't find it wrong to expect to get that $ back.
verdila
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Again I know there is significant regulation going on with regard to corporate/govt accounting practices that would help regulate our 401ks and prevent companies like Enron who practiced 'creative accounting methods, ie cooking the books!'.....from stealing again!
alina
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Sassyz, most of the 'good' companies that tanked with the market are probably going to recover, if history holds true... Of course if you're looking short term, that's a different story, but think in terms of 45 year horizons that many of us have...
ChristineC68
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
I don't think it's wrong to expect to get the money we paid into the system back. The reality of it is that we probably won't. With this information now, we have a responsibility to ourselves to plan for this as well as we can.
While in general I agree that investments (401K's, IRA's) can be a risk but statistically over time they perform well. Fortunately most of us have 30-40 years for these investments to grow.
Posted by ChristineC68 While in general I agree that investments (401K's, IRA's) can be a risk but statistically over time they perform well. Fortunately most of us have 30-40 years for these investments to grow.
30-40 years more of work!!!!!
you mean that I am not going to be able to retire at 40 like the 80s promised!!!
ChristineC68
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
Posted by yabbobay
Posted by ChristineC68 While in general I agree that investments (401K's, IRA's) can be a risk but statistically over time they perform well. Fortunately most of us have 30-40 years for these investments to grow.
30-40 years more of work!!!!!
you mean that I am not going to be able to retire at 40 like the 80s promised!!!
Well, it's almost that long before I can withdraw from my 401k without penalties, etc.
I hope to not be working that long though
Sassyz75
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Re: I knew it! Thanks Mr. Greenspan!
I am thinking more of people like our grandparents and our parents..
and what if the market tanks when we are all 50.. like the market tanked when my grandparents were 70?
There are no guarantees- which is what SS was intended to be.
