we signed a contract with the sellers, contract said on or about august 30th 2pm, we were ready to close august 30th with the mortgage commitment papers, sellers werent ready, apparently didnt have the CO's for the little dormers on the house.Its now middle of september and they said they wont have them for at least 2 more weeks........We thought we could back out since it they would be defaulting 30 days from august 30th and they did it in bad faith........
now our atty tells us we need to set a closing date and if they cant close within 30 days from it then we could back out........what happened to the on or about august 30th???????? HELP! it sound like we are stuck in this house..........is there any way to get out without losing the down payment?
kpny622
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Does your contract say 'time is of the essence?' If so, I'd say you may be able to back out now. If not, I'd still say you could demand your DP back in writing as of September 30th (30 days after contract closing date). Unfortunately I feel that if they can close by 9/30, you may have a problem.
DjPiLL
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Your attorney is right. The attorney can try to 'force' a closing... set a new date... and there is a 30day grace period after that.
The date on the contract is never exact and its very rare any legal proceedings can be filed based on that date.
The attorney has to attempt to 'force' the closing in writing with a certified letter. Then its 30 days from that date. After that... then you have a case to bail out.
Remember if you try to bail out now... you will be responsible for any legal fees trying to get your deposit back from escrow. Its a long and winded process... and usually not adviseable. Delays in closings happen all the time and judges are aware of this.
butterfly20
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Posted by DjPiLL
Your attorney is right. The attorney can try to 'force' a closing... set a new date... and there is a 30day grace period after that.
The date on the contract is never exact and its very rare any legal proceedings can be filed based on that date.
The attorney has to attempt to 'force' the closing in writing with a certified letter. Then its 30 days from that date. After that... then you have a case to bail out.
Remember if you try to bail out now... you will be responsible for any legal fees trying to get your deposit back from escrow. Its a long and winded process... and usually not adviseable. Delays in closings happen all the time and judges are aware of this.
I dont understand......what do you mean 'force' a new date..... the contract we signed(in middle of july) said on or about August30th 2pm at sellers atty place....on or about giving 30 days.... when we went for the inspection the seller even said, that they want to close in august and the contract says august 30th, so that gives up to thirty days...... shouldnt the date in the contract count for something???? We REALLY want to back out now.....we already understand that we would be out any mortgage fees and what the home inspection cost........
------ heres the background....sellers house got they were buying got held up in closing, then they said they couldnt find the CO's for the dormer on the house and carport, last week on thursday the CO dormer was suppose to come in and a closing date set with escrow for the carport CO., now monday we got called up, and was advised that the sellers dont have the CO dormer for the house and that their atty messed up and had them close without it when they bought it 2 1/2 years ago....so now they are sending an expediter to try and get it but it will take at least 2 more weeks........... Please advise me how we can get out.....
janwinterbridejoy
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
why dont you call another lawyer and ask them and get a second opinion. i know that people can get out when the seller refuses to set a closing date or keeps having to move it back.
DjPiLL
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
If you decide to fight it.... I seriously doubt a judge is going to let you out of contract just because they were two weeks late with a CO. Things like that happen all the time in closing.
The date on the contract (regardless if it has a time, date, or even a place) is considered just an estimate. I am sure there are a number of girls on here that closed on a house way passed the 30 day 'grace'.
When my buyer to my co-op was giving me serious holdup thanks to his bank... my attorney sent a certified letter to his attorney's office 'forcing a closing date'. Apparently you can do this after the 30 days grace is up. She told me she has to do this before she can realistically back out of the deal without losing any cash.
Besides.... whats the big deal if you are a couple of weeks late with your closing? My closing didnt happen till 2+ months after the date on my contract. I just had the buyer compensate me nicely.
'I need to close NOW so i have a place to live on my wedding day' is unfortunately not a good enough reason for a judge. The seller is going to fight tooth and nail that they should be awarded damages for having to go out... find a new buyer... double payments on a possible new place.
Its really not worth fighting for unless its an extreme case and you are more or less guaranteed victory. Unfortunately from what you are saying in this case... you aren't.
This is all at least in my opinion... but ask any lawyer what its like to try to dispute money sitting in escrow. Not fun.
DjPiLL
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Posted by janwinterbridejoy
why dont you call another lawyer and ask them and get a second opinion. i know that people can get out when the seller refuses to set a closing date or keeps having to move it back.
You can ask... but don't forget retaining his services will be approx an extra $1000 out of your pocket... plus all the court and legal fees you will have to pay.
Remember that unless your seller is willing to nicely part ways... they will fight this and you will be faced with legal fees.
Some contracts even say that if you decide to fight it... not only are you responsible for your legal fees... you are also responsible for the SELLER's fees! This is what my attorney told me when I was selling that the buyer would have to reinburse my lawyer's fees as well if he backed out.
jen22
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
The 'time is of the essence' clause is usually put into these contracts to force the closing on a specific date. However, this could bite either party in the *** so to speak so it is not normally used unless time is really of the essence. The 'on or about' before your closing date is allowing this to happen. The date wasn't set in stone and gives either party leeway in case anything happens. Although, if they are acting in bad faith, you may have some recourse and should speak to your attorney about it. Make sure you get ALL your options and all the alternatives and what could happen in whatever you choose.
butterfly20
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
its not just finding a place to live after the wedding, its that the sellers atty acted in bad faith...apparently he is the one that let them close on the house 2 1/2 years ago without the CO's for the carport/dormers/2nd bathroom.....we signed the contract middle of july.....it said on or about august 30th, giving up to 30 days making it september 30th.... the sellers atty already admitted to our atty that he messed up, that they now need to get the CO's, and he tells us this mid september..... he knew he didnt have them....the sellers even told us ' the contract will say august 30th, we want to close in august, but the on or about will give up to 30 days after....... what does that date in the contract count for, nothing?
janwinterbridejoy
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
im sorry your going through this emily im sure if you buy the house you can always fix up where you will love it. just ask your lawyer to look for a loop hole to get you out if your that unhappy
suven
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Posted by butterfly20
what does that date in the contract count for, nothing?
When we bought our condo, I realized right away that I would not be available to close on the date that was on the contact (I was going to be on a business trip)
Both my real estate agent and attorney said that the date on the contract doesn't mean much...
butterfly20
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
but isnt there a way to get out if the sellers acted in bad faith??? their atty said that he let them close on the house 2 1/2 years ago without the CO's........ the CO's are a responsibility of the seller in the contract......we signed the contract in JULy, with on or about august 30th, Mid september the atty says he doesnt have them because they closed on the house without them........ he waited TWO months to tell us they dont have them..waited til the after the sellers moved out of the house....and that now they are sending an expeditor out for them.....isnt that in bad faith??
DjPiLL
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Posted by butterfly20
but isnt there a way to get out if the sellers acted in bad faith??? their atty said that he let them close on the house 2 1/2 years ago without the CO's........ the CO's are a responsibility of the seller in the contract......we signed the contract in JULy, with on or about august 30th, Mid september the atty says he doesnt have them because they closed on the house without them........ he waited TWO months to tell us they dont have them..waited til the after the sellers moved out of the house....and that now they are sending an expeditor out for them.....isnt that in bad faith??
Haven't you read these boards in the past? This happens ALL THE TIME (delayed or no COs). Plus I think it was really foolish and unreasonable in the first place that the sellers put Aug 30th in the contract when you only signed middle of July. Thats 45 days from signing. Its extremely rare a closing goes that quickly. Sometimes the title work alone takes a month to finish. Ive heard some cash closings have taken longer to complete than 45 days.
This situation to me sounds more like you just don't want the house anymore and are looking for a way to get out. I can understand feeling that way. But realistically you aren't going to be able to bail out of the contract that easily.
I think all sellers BS and act in bad faith one way or another in every closing. You are only two months into your contract and it seems like its almost done. Thats good timing IMO... even with the delay in the CO.
Even if I was the seller and a little BSish about the COs.... I would fight you tooth and nail if you wanted to bail for this reason. I can see being pissed for a 4+ month delay.
But if my buyer wanted to bail for this reason... I would make sure that buyer ends up eating the deposit AND paying for all my legal fees. Like I said previously... check your contract. You may be responsible for any seller legal fees as well as your own.
AFB10304
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
the on or about date in the contract means that you have a 30 day window around that date to close. 'time is of the essence' is a letter that either attorney can send to the other pary to force a closing when that window has passed and you do not appear to be headed towards a closing.
i am surprised that your bank would allow you to close if there are alterations that are not signed off (the missing CO's).
butterfly20
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
the bank will not close without the Co's....the sellers had august 30th on the contract because their house was suppose to close end of july.....I guess we are stuck with the house.... its just a matter of figuring out what do do with proceeding...... are their any penalties for selling your house immediately?
DjPiLL
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
Posted by butterfly20
are their any penalties for selling your house immediately?
You mean selling this house right after you close? BAD BAD move.
Isn't there a 1% NYS tax on all sales? I am not sure what Nassau or Suffolk taxes get added on as well.
Lets say you buy the house for 300k. You then immediately sell it for 300k. You have to pay the 1% (or whatever it is - correct me if I am wrong) tax on the sale... in this case its $3000. The seller has to pay this at the closing table when you finally get to close.
Thats just one expense. You then have to pay a realtor fee (comission) which is anywhere from 2-6%. Then your attorney fee to sell the house which usually runs around $1000 buks.
In other words... its a BAD move to immediately sell it after buying it. Just fix it up and live there.
It sounds like there are other issues here that you aren't mentioning for reason for not buying it. Your mom really getting that annoying? Didn't you say she was totally against it from day one?
If thats the real reason you are aprehensive about this... I say screw her personally. If you want me to call her and tell her this personally... I would have no problem with it. You sounded like you were really looking forward to moving into this house... and I doubt a slight delay on a CO would cause a total mood swing.
There must be other things involved here. If you want to keep those reasons for not buying it to yourself... i would understand totally.
butterfly20
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Re: Need legal advise on house contract.....
its definately not the parents as this is our house not theirs its more that we wanted a house that was a decent size that we wouldnt have to move when we had kids...then this small house popped up, and we were going to have time to dormer it to make a third bedroom(we dont want to do work where the roof will be open once we are fully moved in).....so we saw the house as something we could close on and fix in time, or close to the wedding.....
