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Obama NWR

2007 Crescent Bride Posted:

Obama NWR

So FH emailed this to me and I got very scared reading it. How could anyone afford 62.8% in taxes unless you make a trillion dollars.


Obamanomics Is a Recipe for Recession
By MICHAEL J. BOSKIN
July 29, 2008; Page A17





What if I told you that a prominent global political figure in recent months has proposed: abrogating key features of his government's contracts with energy companies; unilaterally renegotiating his country's international economic treaties; dramatically raising marginal tax rates on the 'rich' to levels not seen in his country in three decades (which would make them among the highest in the world); and changing his country's social insurance system into explicit welfare by severing the link between taxes and benefits?





The first name that came to mind would probably not be Barack Obama, possibly our nation's next president. Yet despite his obvious general intelligence, and uplifting and motivational eloquence, Sen. Obama reveals this startling economic illiteracy in his policy proposals and economic pronouncements. From the property rights and rule of (contract) law foundations of a successful market economy to the specifics of tax, spending, energy, regulatory and trade policy, if the proposals espoused by candidate Obama ever became law, the American economy would suffer a serious setback.

To be sure, Mr. Obama has been clouding these positions as he heads into the general election and, once elected, presidents sometimes see the world differently than when they are running. Some cite Bill Clinton's move to the economic policy center following his Hillary health-care and 1994 Congressional election debacles as a possible Obama model. But candidate Obama starts much further left on spending, taxes, trade and regulation than candidate Clinton. A move as large as Mr. Clinton's toward the center would still leave Mr. Obama on the economic left.

Also, by 1995 the country had a Republican Congress to limit President Clinton's big government agenda, whereas most political pundits predict strengthened Democratic majorities in both Houses in 2009. Because newly elected presidents usually try to implement the policies they campaigned on, Mr. Obama's proposals are worth exploring in some depth. I'll discuss taxes and trade, although the story on his other proposals is similar.

First, taxes. The table nearby demonstrates what could happen to marginal tax rates in an Obama administration. Mr. Obama would raise the top marginal rates on earnings, dividends and capital gains passed in 2001 and 2003, and phase out itemized deductions for high income taxpayers. He would uncap Social Security taxes, which currently are levied on the first $102,000 of earnings. The result is a remarkable reduction in work incentives for our most economically productive citizens.

The top 35% marginal income tax rate rises to 39.6%; adding the state income tax, the Medicare tax, the effect of the deduction phase-out and Mr. Obama's new Social Security tax (of up to 12.4%) increases the total combined marginal tax rate on additional labor earnings (or small business income) from 44.6% to a whopping 62.8%. People respond to what they get to keep after tax, which the Obama plan reduces from 55.4 cents on the dollar to 37.2 cents -- a reduction of one-third in the after-tax wage!

Despite the rhetoric, that's not just on 'rich' individuals. It's also on a lot of small businesses and two-earner middle-aged middle-class couples in their peak earnings years in high cost-of-living areas. (His large increase in energy taxes, not documented here, would disproportionately harm low-income Americans. And, while he says he will not raise taxes on the middle class, he'll need many more tax hikes to pay for his big increase in spending.)

On dividends the story is about as bad, with rates rising from 50.4% to 65.6%, and after-tax returns falling over 30%. Even a small response of work and investment to these lower returns means such tax rates, sooner or later, would seriously damage the economy.

On economic policy, the president proposes and Congress disposes, so presidents often wind up getting the favorite policy of powerful senators or congressmen. Thus, while Mr. Obama also proposes an alternative minimum tax (AMT) patch, he could instead wind up with the permanent abolition plan for the AMT proposed by the Ways and Means Committee Chairman Charlie Rangel (D., N.Y.) -- a 4.6% additional hike in the marginal rate with no deductibility of state income taxes. Marginal tax rates would then approach 70%, levels not seen since the 1970s and among the highest in the world. The after-tax return to work -- the take-home wage for more time or effort -- would be cut by more than 40%.

Now trade. In the primaries, Sen. Obama was famously protectionist, claiming he would rip up and renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (Nafta). Since its passage (for which former President Bill Clinton ran a brave anchor leg, given opposition to trade liberalization in his party), Nafta has risen to almost mythological proportions as a metaphor for the alleged harm done by trade, globalization and the pace of technological change.

Yet since Nafta was passed (relative to the comparable period before passage), U.S. manufacturing output grew more rapidly and reached an all-time high last year; the average unemployment rate declined as employment grew 24%; real hourly compensation in the business sector grew twice as fast as before; agricultural exports destined for Canada and Mexico have grown substantially and trade among the three nations has tripled; Mexican wages have risen each year since the peso crisis of 1994; and the two binational Nafta environmental institutions have provided nearly $1 billion for 135 environmental infrastructure projects along the U.S.-Mexico border.

In short, it would be hard, on balance, for any objective person to argue that Nafta has injured the U.S. economy, reduced U.S. wages, destroyed American manufacturing, harmed our agriculture, damaged Mexican labor, failed to expand trade, or worsened the border environment. But perhaps I am not objective, since Nafta originated in meetings James Baker and I had early in the Bush 41 administration with Pepe Cordoba, chief of staff to Mexico's President Carlos Salinas.

Mr. Obama has also opposed other important free-trade agreements, including those with Colombia, South Korea and Central America. He has spoken eloquently about America's responsibility to help alleviate global poverty -- even to the point of saying it would help defeat terrorism -- but he has yet to endorse, let alone forcefully advocate, the single most potent policy for doing so: a successful completion of the Doha round of global trade liberalization. Worse yet, he wants to put restrictions into trade treaties that would damage the ability of poor countries to compete. And he seems to see no inconsistency in his desire to improve America's standing in the eyes of the rest of the world and turning his back on more than six decades of bipartisan American presidential leadership on global trade expansion. When trade rules are not being improved, nontariff barriers develop to offset the liberalization from the current rules. So no trade liberalization means creeping protectionism.

History teaches us that high taxes and protectionism are not conducive to a thriving economy, the extreme case being the higher taxes and tariffs that deepened the Great Depression. While such a policy mix would be a real change, as philosophers remind us, change is not always progress.

cbcf Posted:

Re: Obama NWR

i just love the last line....
'change is not always progress'

IMO i feel so many people think change is going to make things better...and that is not always true

i agree with you how can someone afford 62.8% in taxes...geez it's crazy!
2007 Crescent Bride Posted:

Re: Obama NWR

Well I am going to quit my great paying job and get a job off the books making a lot less but I will end up bringing home more. INSANE!!!

beachbum05 Posted:

Re: Obama NWR


Posted by 2007 Crescent Bride

Well I am going to quit my great paying job and get a job off the books making a lot less but I will end up bringing home more. INSANE!!!



DH and I were JUSSSSSSST talking about this. If Obama wins, we (meaning me and DH - not trying to speak for other people) are going to get hit hard with taxes. Comparatively, McCain's tax plan is a he!l of a lot better for us. I'm legitimately nervous about our future because of it.

2007 Crescent Bride Posted:

Re: Obama NWR


Posted by beachbum05


Posted by 2007 Crescent Bride

Well I am going to quit my great paying job and get a job off the books making a lot less but I will end up bringing home more. INSANE!!!



DH and I were JUSSSSSSST talking about this. If Obama wins, we (meaning me and DH - not trying to speak for other people) are going to get hit hard with taxes. Comparatively, McCain's tax plan is a he!l of a lot better for us. I'm legitimately nervous about our future because of it.




Us too. FH owns his company so the dividend tax is insane as well as the income tax.
Autumn08 Posted:

Re: Obama NWR

If salaries went up respectfully with everything else the government would get more in taxes.

It kills me because we get penalized for other people mishandling the government's finances. Over budgeting and paying salaries of these officials that most people don't even like and they aren't even doing a good job.

All this comes right back to us in tax increase. Pretty soon you won't even get a check... it will all go to uncle sam.
KimberlyScott Posted:

Re: Obama NWR

Can't we bring Hillary back?
DDandSFG Posted:

Re: Obama NWR

Perhaps to ease your fears: NYT article - pretty much refutes the article above.

By LARRY ROHTER
Published: June 13, 2008 (NYT ,http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/us/politics/13check.html?ex=1371096000&en=6daf0a137fec20fb&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink)

Mr. McCain, the expected Republican nominee, also said that “under Senator Obama’s tax plan, Americans of every background would see their taxes rise — seniors, parents, small-business owners and just about everyone who has even a modest investment in the market.” He used much the same language in an April 15 speech in which he warned that Democrats “are going to raise your taxes by thousands of dollars per year,” adding up to “a trillion dollars in new taxes over the next decade.”

Economists of various ideological persuasions, however, view Mr. McCain’s assessment as inaccurate or exaggerated. Some question whether Mr. Obama’s tax plan can even be characterized as an increase. Some also argue that contrary to Mr. McCain’s assertions, the Democrat’s proposals, if enacted, would actually reduce taxes for the middle class — the voters both candidates see as the key to victory.

In a study of the candidates’ plans made public Wednesday, the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center concluded that in contrast to Mr. McCain, “Senator Obama offers much larger tax breaks to low- and middle-income taxpayers and would increase taxes on high-income taxpayers.”

The study said, “The largest tax cuts, as a share of income, would go to those at the bottom of the income distribution,” whereas “Senator McCain’s tax cuts would primarily benefit those with very high incomes.”

Other groups that focus on tax and economic policy are preparing similar analyses, but say they regard the Tax Policy Center’s assessment as highly reliable, based on its work in the past.

The study did question some of Mr. Obama’s calculations, noting, for example, that “both candidates may be overoptimistic in their revenue targets for closing tax loopholes, Obama probably more than McCain.”

According to the group’s computations, under Mr. Obama’s plan, the middle of the middle class, or those earning $37,595 to $66,354, would see taxes cut by $1,042 a year. Under Mr. McCain’s plan, taxes for people in that category would also fall, but by $319; the largest chunk of the benefits would go to those making $2.8 million a year or more.

“When you hear this talk on the TV about how Obama’s a tax-and-spend liberal and he’s going to destroy businesses, it’s just not true,” Mr. Obama said Thursday in Kaukauna, Wis. The reality, he said, is that “the typical middle-class family will get three times more from my cut than the one John McCain has proposed.”

In a conference call with reporters Thursday, Douglas Holtz-Eakin, Mr. McCain’s senior economic adviser, complained about what he described as flaws in the Tax Policy Center study. He called it “an incomplete analysis” that made “some fundamentally unrealistic assumptions” about Mr. Obama’s plan, specifically in the area of taxes on small businesses, and accepted spending projections for the Democrat “that also don’t add up.”

There is “a real difference here” between Mr. McCain and Mr. Obama, Mr. Holtz-Eakin added. “The Tax Policy Center didn’t capture that,” he said.

Part of the disagreement between the candidates has to do with the semantics of what constitutes a tax increase. When Congress approved cuts in 2001 and 2003, it did so with the understanding that those benefits, which largely favor the wealthy, would expire at the end of 2010. While Mr. McCain wants to extend virtually all of the cuts permanently, Mr. Obama favors retaining those that primarily benefit people whose income is less than $250,000 a year.

“The way the Congressional Budget Office scores it, that would not be a tax increase, because their baseline assumes the increase is going to happen as part of current law,” said Chris Edwards, a tax analyst at the libertarian Cato Institute. “Bush and the Republicans would have liked the cuts to be permanent, but you need 60 votes in the Senate to make cuts permanent.”

Mr. McCain is correct when he says that Mr. Obama intends to increase the maximum tax rate on capital gains, the bulk of which fall on the wealthiest segment of the population, and that he would be less generous in offering breaks on the estate tax. But he tends to play down or ignore Mr. Obama’s proposals to eliminate taxes for retirees earning less than $50,000 a year and to give tax breaks to workers earning less than $75,000 annually.

“McCain is picking the areas where rates go up and ignoring the areas where Obama is trying to rebalance the tax code so that taxpayers would save,” said John Irons, research and policy director at the Economic Policy Institute, which is generally viewed as sympathetic to working families. Mr. Irons said that “the important thing is to look at overall impact on people” and that on this score, “the vast majority of the population, almost the entirety of the middle class, would see more from Obama than McCain.”

Economists have also criticized the methodology behind Mr. McCain’s assertion that Americans from all kinds of backgrounds could end up paying thousands of dollars more in taxes if Mr. Obama got his way. Several criticized him as apparently basing his claim on an average figure in which, as Mr. Irons said, “Bill Gates is mixed with you and me, and everything gets skewed.”

Julie Bosman contributed reporting from Kaukauna, Wis.

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