No offense to the dog owners in the room, but can someone explain to me why dogs shouldn't be mandated to wear mussels when they are taken out for a walk by the owners? I am walking down 9th avenue just off columbus circle and this young man is walking his dog, a pitbull no less, and out of nowhere this dog starts jumping around and barking a a 2 year old child. Off course the child begins to cry hysterically while the owner apologizes and tries to keep the dog under control. My issue is what if it was an old woman with a bad heart or something and this dog had done that? What is the point? I would love to know if their is some kind of medical explanation for why dogs, especially pitbulls and all those dogs that seem to make young men feel 'cool', are not musseled when outside amongst people trying to get home from work?
susans
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Dogs shouldn't be mandated to be muzzled because not all dogs will react the way that pit bull did when being out in a social setting. And all dogs shouldn't be punished because of bad behavior on one dog and it's owner.
NYCHICK
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Posted by susans
Dogs shouldn't be mandated to be muzzled because not all dogs will react the way.
Absolutely true that we don't know that every dog is going to act that way, but does the next mother walking her child home know that? Is she expected to cross the street everytime she sees one. Isn't the mere fact that it could happen make it mandatory, It is only for a couple of hours at most. And this was midtown manhattan. I am no dog hater but I think it is quite unsafe. I have been in a few sticky situations like these myself, so I may be a bit biased.
070502
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
IMO, there are no bad dogs just bad dog owners.
If a dog is trained properly it won't do that. We lease trained our dog, and when we stop, he stops and sits and he walks right next to us (he heals)
nycchic_24
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
I agree with susans! A mandated muzzle is a little too much but I also agree that it is up to the dog owner to train their dog properly.
If you know your dog is vicious, active, or hard to handle than the owner should know what should be done with his/her dog. Especially in a crowded place like a manhatten street. It is a dangerous situation when dogs are wild like that which this dog seemed to be. But if they are trained properly, I dont believe just any dog should be muzzled.
NYCHICK
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
I agree with all of you on the training, BUT that would have to be mandated also because I know that many people are not going to fork out the dough to do it otherwise. Everyone thinks their dog 'would not do that', but the truth is unless he is trained you can't be sure, and even still god knows. I just think something defintely needs to be done. I was just so infuriated, i could have exploded. What if it really was an old woman, and the dog scared her so bad she had a heart attack or something, anything can happen.
susans
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Posted by NYCHICK
Absolutely true that we don't know that every dog is going to act that way, but does the next mother walking her child home know that? Is she expected to cross the street everytime she sees one.
No mother, child or person should be expected to cross the street to avoid the dog. I agree with everyone here that it's the OWNERS responsibility, and if he has a dog that will react that way in public, then yes, the animal should be muzzled or better yet, properly socialized and trained. We're tallking about an irresonsible owner and someone that's lacking in common courtesy. Because it 'could happen' in a certain percentage of owners/pets still doesn't make it right to punish a group of people and animals as a whole though.
I also think that muzzling ALL dogs, would send the wrong message out, ESPECIALLY to children that dogs are vicious animals and that they bite, etc., etc., which is why they NEED to be muzzled. This isn't the case with most dogs (even pitbulls) and it shouldn't be the message that should be sent out to the general public.
My issue is what if it was an old woman with a bad heart or something and this dog had done that?
While I do agree that the pitbull breed has been completely abused....
but if someone is prone to a heart attack it could be a taxi honking or kid running by that nudges her out of the way...or turning the corner and not seeing the person turning into her...its not fair to put this onto dogs...
there are leash laws and laws that hold owners responsible...
(speaking as a dog lover AND someone who was attacked by a dog as a child )
julybride444
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Most people who walk are used to dogs. And, dogs bark sometimes. That's part of being a dog.
There are plenty of reasons that a dog may bark - an offensive smell or sound (or the smell of a cat), a person that looks threatening, etc etc etc. And, even a properly trained dog may lapse occasionally( and a bark is not life threatening!). You and I know what we're supposed to do but we make mistakes sometimes, don't we?
I'm not a big fan of dogs myself, but suggesting we muzzle them all isn't right either. We don't jail all people b/c some are criminals. Muzzles are not a nice way to treat any animal, and shouldn't be used unless absolutely necessary.
***Very importantly, muzzles can encourage otherwise docile dogs to become more aggressive because they feel that they do not have their defenses available, making them more afraid and defensive (and possibly more likely to jump on and attack people or animals with their claws). They can also create a negative relationship with people, and when the dog is then unmuzzled it can become aggressive.
It's important that when making decisions about animals in our lives or in society, we know the facts; doing otherwise often proves dangerous or cruel.***
P.S. Friends don't muzzle friends
RedHead
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Personally I think there are more human beings that need muzzles than dogs!
NYCHICK
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Posted by julybride444
***Very importantly, muzzles can encourage otherwise docile dogs to become more aggressive because they feel that they do not have their defenses available, making them more afraid and defensive (and possibly more likely to jump on and attack people or animals with their claws). They can also create a negative relationship with people, and when the dog is then unmuzzled it can become aggressive.
It's important that when making decisions about animals in our lives or in society, we know the facts; doing otherwise often proves dangerous or cruel.***
P.S. Friends don't muzzle friends
Now that theory is understandable, kinda like declawing your cat or someting. Though I still think something needs to be done. I think the city could use the money from mandated training sessions, and I also think that pitbulls are not necessary, they aren't really very friedly so should people be allowed to have them?They are hybrids and much more violent than your average poodle. I just don't get it.
NYCHICK
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Posted by oct.2004bride
Personally I think there are more human beings that need muzzles than dogs!
defintely!
cluelessbride
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
I agree totally with Susan. Ditto to everything she said.
And NOT all pitbulls are terrors. Some are, but not all are. My dog is a 'hybrid' (lab and hound) and being one does not make him a monster. Pitbulls can have an aggressive tendency, as can german shephards and rottweilers and dobermans, it's the owners of the pitbulls who think it's 'cool' to train them to be vicious. But the dogs themselves are not to blame.
Sage10.03
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Posted by NYCHICK
I also think that pitbulls are not necessary, they aren't really very friedly so should people be allowed to have them?They are hybrids and much more violent than your average poodle. I just don't get it.
This is JMO, It's this kind of thinking that makes people scared of PitBulls... You will just assume that ALL pitbulls are bad? I have known many people to have had them as docile loving pets....because they trained them to be and gave them lots of attention and love.... You could take a 'standard poodle' and train it to be as nasty as a pitbull, but it will never get the same reputation b/c they are not as 'big and scary'....
IT'S THE OWNER, NOT THE PET that determines it's temperment...
NYCHICK
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Posted by Sage10.03
This is JMO, It's this kind of thinking that makes people scared of PitBulls... You will just assume that ALL pitbulls are bad? I have known many people to have had them as docile loving pets....because they trained them to be and gave them lots of attention and love.... You could take a 'standard poodle' and train it to be as nasty as a pitbull, but it will never get the same reputation b/c they are not as 'big and scary'....
IT'S THE OWNER, NOT THE PET that determines it's temperment...
This is very true. I think all of you are very correct but what about the other person on the street? This also JMO...but I can understand that people are not perfect but I don't see why I should have to walk down the street in fear, and think 'I wonder if this owner has trained his dog appropriately so it does not flip out and chew my arm off?'... JMO
Lunatrek
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Posted by NYCHICK
This is very true. I think all of you are very correct but what about the other person on the street? This also JMO...but I can understand that people are not perfect but I don't see why I should have to walk down the street in fear, and think 'I wonder if this owner has trained his dog appropriately so it does not flip out and chew my arm off?'... JMO
Sounds, to me, like you have a dog phobia. I don't know many other people who worry about having dogs attacking them at random. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not insinuating that there's anything wrong or bad about phobias. I just think maybe that's why you're having this reaction?
NYCHICK
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
Posted by Lunatrek
Sounds, to me, like you have a dog phobia. I don't know many other people who worry about having dogs attacking them at random. Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not insinuating that there's anything wrong or bad about phobias. I just think maybe that's why you're having this reaction?
Quite possibly. I was chased and bitten by dogs many times while I was growing up. And always after the owners said, 'Don't worry he doesn't bite or anything'...yea right... got the scars to prove it.
meganNbobby
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
I agree that they're bad owners not bad dogs, I have a pitbull myself, and she is the sweetest dog you'd ever know. Its they way they are raised and they're are some bad bad people out there that SHOULD NOT be dog owners. It makes me sick!! And if i did have a dog like that, i would not take it out in the public and if i had to i would make sure it was properly restrained, but just be aware you blame something or someone for the way it was raised, they dont know an better.
susans
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Re: Very annoyed at people with dogs VENT
I agree with everything that everyone has said about pitbulls. There are some dogs that have more agressive tendencies than others and the owners should take the necessary steps to play down that tendency as opposed to doing things to coax it out.
I've actually had experiences with both agressive pits and very loving pits. And I can assure you, you can pretty much TELL from the owners demeanor, how their dog will behave.
That being said, your fears could very well be a slight phobia from your own childhood experiences.
Fear is another thing that dogs sense though, as all animals do. Assuming that some dogs attack out of fear, I don't think that it's wrong for dogs to sense/feel that if they're in the presence of someone that's afraid, that that PERSON may also attack and that vibe is likely to put an animal on the defensive as well.
I think the city could use the money for mandated training sessions, and I also think that pitbulls are not necessary, they aren't really very friedly so should people be allowed to have them?They are hybrids and much more violent than your average poodle. I just don't get it.
in a perfect world...but unfortunately teachers, firemen, police and other public employees don't make enough to live in the city that they work...so allocating public funds seems pretty futile...
I personally worry more about humans that aren't leashed going nuts...
