Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Original post by jenny11.9

Dec 02, 2003 08:34 AM

How do you feel about Christmas Trees being called 'Holiday Trees'?

I watched a whole news thing on this. I am not sure how I feel about it. The one thing I know kind of bothers me (and please don't flame me on this) is Nativity Scenes being removed from displays because of religious content, yet menorahs are allowed to be displayed.

I have thought all along that maybe town displays should be limited to wreaths, lights, stars, snowflakes, etc. But to take one religious thing away and leave another....and then I look at it and think - why are we taking ANY religious sentiment away from the season? Are we a country trying to adopt atheism as a national religion?

Hm........let me know what you think!!!! And let's keep it festive!

Jordan Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:26 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by lesleyw

OK, ladies... for all of you who think the Christmas Tree is Christian or Catholic, do a little research. Christmas trees actually come from old pagan religions and originally symbolized hope in the darkest hours of winter and were used to celebrate the winter solistice. As Christianity spread, this custom was adopted in the celebration of the birth of Christ (aka Christmas) (which, not coincidentally, coincides with Saturnalia, a Roman holiday, and other pagan holidays that celebrated the birth of the sun god). So it really doesn't matter if it's called a Christmas tree or a Holiday Tree. If it fosters good relations in inter-faith families (like mine) to call it a holiday tree, then call it a holiday tree. If it's a Christmas tree in your house, that's fine, too.

Well said.

What do you all feel about X-Mas as opposed to Christmas? I remember as a child, my dad refusing to buy from anyone who took 'Christ' out of Christmas.

jenny11.9 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:29 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

my mom used to FREAK out about saying xmas. I did it once.

Once.

Jordan Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:32 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

shamma Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:42 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

I do not like the term x-mas at all, when I think of X I think broken up, past, not a part of and that is exactly what the commercialized aspect of Christmas is about, nothing to do with the birth of Christ, so they have x'ed him out of the season

Sonicstef Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:44 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

I thinks saying 'x' mas is weird since x and christ is the same number of syllables so I dont really get the reason unless you specifically dont even want to say the word and if that is the case, you probably shouldnt celebrate at all.

I write xmas all the time. I personally dont think god would care if I abbrevieate the name of the holiday on occasion - he has other things to worry about.

Christmas can be a very religious holiday but it is not for most people. Santa Claus is as far from the nativity as you can get and most people dont have a problem with him.

For me, the holiday season (no matter your religion) is about celebrating the love we have for each other and taking some time aside to express it. As far as Im concerned, you could put up a christmas tree, menorah, wreath, snowflake or festivus pole - as long as the intention is one of love, Im all for it.

shamma Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:46 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Festivus for the rest of us, I could not resist

Lisa Rose Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:51 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by Sonicstef

I write xmas all the time. I personally dont think god would care if I abbrevieate the name of the holiday on occasion - he has other things to worry about.

You just got a big X by your name in God's book!! because you do not think he worries about things like that!!

Sonicstef Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:52 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

If god is giving out demerits for things like that, I have other things to worry about b/c Im in a lot of trouble. Hhahahhaha

Lisa Rose Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:54 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

@ Stef!! You are right...I might even have my OWN book up there!!

Jordan Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:55 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by Sonicstef

For me, the holiday season (no matter your religion) is about celebrating the love we have for each other and taking some time aside to express it. As far as Im concerned, you could put up a christmas tree, menorah, wreath, snowflake or festivus pole - as long as the intention is one of love, Im all for it.

Ditto!

Lisa Rose Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:57 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

On a different note....does anyone go caroling anymore?? I remember as a kid, we used to go caroling all the time. Now, I never see anyone caroling!! Not that I have a voice for singing, but I am sure there are some wonderful voices out there!!

endlessluv429 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:00 AM

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I agree totally with Lisa Rose--it really upsets me how far from the real meaning of Christmas we have gotten. FH & I were in HARROWS last night and there was not one mention or display of Christ's Birth anywhere except for a nativity scene for $1000 for sale in the corner. everything is santa and snowman and reindeer. it's ridiculous. now they have these huge blow up things for your lawn--I saw a Tigger one last night and no offense to anyone who has one but what does Tigger have to do with Christmas? It just really gets to me, how distorted the meaning of Christmas has become.

Sonicstef Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:01 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

I grew up in the tristate area and I have never actually seen a single caroller. But every year I think it would be very cool to hear a bunch of angelic voices outside my door. Someone should start up a carolling group.

Edited to add:

Endless and others - I think everyone has to remember that there is a very large population of secular Christmas celebraters out there. I am not a religious person but love Christmas for the reasons I described earlier. It is not about celebrating a religious holiday to me - its about celebrating the love we have for each other. Much like Santa is the embodiement of the Christmas spirit, not the birth of Christ - we all have our own ways of celebrating. For those that celebrate the holiday as a religious rememberance, that is a wonderful thing. But there seems to be a lot of ANGER around people who do not share that belief. Why cant everyone celebrate how they want to and leave it at that? As long as the intent is a good one - why do people get upset if its not just how they celebrate it?

Lisa Rose Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:03 AM

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I would come to your house Stef to sing....but I fear that I would get tomatos thrown at me and the dogs would be howling!!

Misty Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:04 AM

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Stef, we live in Brooklyn...when a group of people that I don't know knock on my door...I usually turn off the lights and lock the doors/windows.

Sonicstef Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:07 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Really Misty??? I guess its scrooges like you that killed all the carollers in my neighborhood. hahhahaha Ba-humbug to you!!

yabbobay Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:07 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

The whole reason for the 'holiday tree' term is so that governments (towns) can put up a christmas tree...there has to be a line in the separation of state and church...if you let one thing pass...than you set a precedent for so many others

the same way Christians are upset the menorah is up (and not the tree), other religious groups are upset when Christian religious symbols are up (anyway you look at it...if you call it a CHRISTmas tree...it has a religious connotation to it)

I wish that Christians who make up the majority of this country have a little respect and compassion for the rest...why b/c they are the majority must the minority have to succumb to the religion?

as for xmas...if you want to get to the nitty gritty...I always thought the X was a substitute for the greek symbol Chi ('X') that Emperor Constantine saw in the sky as a sign in battle and converted....so I think you could feel comfortable about using it...

eroxgirl Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:09 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by Misty

Stef, we live in Brooklyn...when a group of people that I don't know knock on my door...I usually turn off the lights and lock the doors/windows.

we shut the tv, tiptoe to the door and slowly look through the peephole and yell 'WE DON'T WANT ANY' through the locked door

endlessluv429 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:10 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

i'm not angry that others don't celebrate like I do - It just upsets me how far we have gotten from the real reason for the season. Without the birth of Christ, there would be no Christmas Holiday, therefore no other way to celebrate unless someone invented their own holiday haha

to all who celebrate it in a non-religous manner-a blessed holiday season to you-as long as the intent is a good one as sonicstef said-that is fine, if that is how you choose to celebrate-I can understand that not everyone believes what I do.

Misty Posted: Dec 02, 2003 11:12 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by eroxgirl

Posted by Misty

Stef, we live in Brooklyn...when a group of people that I don't know knock on my door...I usually turn off the lights and lock the doors/windows.

we shut the tv, tiptoe to the door and slowly look through the peephole and yell 'WE DON'T WANT ANY' through the locked door

A crotchety old woman that lived next door to us in my old neighborhood used to do this everytime my dad would go over to check if she was still alive.