Brides Helping Brides ™ - Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

jenny11.9 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 08:34 AM

Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

How do you feel about Christmas Trees being called 'Holiday Trees'?

I watched a whole news thing on this. I am not sure how I feel about it. The one thing I know kind of bothers me (and please don't flame me on this) is Nativity Scenes being removed from displays because of religious content, yet menorahs are allowed to be displayed.

I have thought all along that maybe town displays should be limited to wreaths, lights, stars, snowflakes, etc. But to take one religious thing away and leave another....and then I look at it and think - why are we taking ANY religious sentiment away from the season? Are we a country trying to adopt atheism as a national religion?

Hm........let me know what you think!!!! And let's keep it festive!

Sage10.03 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 08:43 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Without going into this too too much, I will tell you this:
I was raised by a Jewish father and a Catholic mother. (let me tell you that was NOT easy)

However, I feel that BOTH (actually ALL) religions have a right to exhibit their religious displays. And certainly one religion should have no more right to do so than another.

As for 'holiday' trees....we always had a Christmas tree in my home b/c of my mother and in my eyes, it will always be a Christmas Tree.

wacky Posted: Dec 02, 2003 08:47 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Oh Im so glad you posted this. Personally Im pissed that, Christmas is considered just a holiday. Its a Catholic Holiday and we should be able to celebrate it.

Problem is we have to be politically correct and thats ********. I am catholic, we celebrate xmas, the birth of Jesus Christ.

If you do not celebrate xmas, thats fine. Explain it to your kids, that they have a different religion. Whats the big deal.

My friends kids were not allowed to celebrate Halloween in school because it wasnt fair to other kids. Ok, so they call it a Holiday Party, great now your kids are happy but what about mine. Its a Catholic Holiday. I dont get it

Personally Im so sick of making everyone else happy and giving up a piece of myself

mlp924 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:05 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Very well said Wacky!

Lisa Rose Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:13 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

It seems that Christians need to be PC to everyone elses religion but we can not enjoy ours!! I mean, Christmas is on Dec 25th...has been for hundreds of years and its celebrated by more people on the plant than any other holiday but God forbid you call the evergreen tree you have in school a Christmas tree and the whole world in up in arms. Nothing against anyone that is Jewish, but should we call the Menorah a Holiday Candalabra??

I am sorry if this seems harsh, but peole need to let the children understand that there are different religions and cultures in the world. The only way for them to understand is to let them see the differences, not trying to make everything fit into a generic mold...like using a Holiday Tree instead of a Christmas Tree!!

Lunatrek Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:14 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

It's not just a Catholic holiday, it's a CHRISTIAN holiday. I am Christian, but not Catholic. And I agree that all symbols from all religions should be equally displayed. It's a shame that so many people are consumed by the commerciality of the holiday and they forget or overlook the real reason of why we celebrate...

Merry Christmas to all!!!

wacky Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:17 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Lisa well put. In a an era where we are all trying to understand each others differences and accept them, we sure are sending a different message thats its not ok to be different. We should all be the same. In the end what one is really saying is that its not ok to be different and thats why are kids are so freaking messed up.

lesleyw Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:28 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

OK, ladies... for all of you who think the Christmas Tree is Christian or Catholic, do a little research. Christmas trees actually come from old pagan religions and originally symbolized hope in the darkest hours of winter and were used to celebrate the winter solistice. As Christianity spread, this custom was adopted in the celebration of the birth of Christ (aka Christmas) (which, not coincidentally, coincides with Saturnalia, a Roman holiday, and other pagan holidays that celebrated the birth of the sun god). So it really doesn't matter if it's called a Christmas tree or a Holiday Tree. If it fosters good relations in inter-faith families (like mine) to call it a holiday tree, then call it a holiday tree. If it's a Christmas tree in your house, that's fine, too.

shamma Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:33 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

We were never raised to associate the tree with Christ's birth, we do not have one in our church and we only put it up in our home b/c its nice. I always will raise my children, when the time comes the true meaning of Christmas, call it whatever you like, its your tree. I do have to say I think that whatever represents your time of the season we all should be able to display it. A christmas tree does not do it for me.

jenny11.9 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:39 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

We were never raised to associate the tree with Christ's birth,

Good point. In retrospect, neither did we. We had a Christmas tree that was put up for Christmas, but we had very clear lines in our little heads that the Christ birth part was the Nativity and had nothing to do with the tree. Hm....never thought of it that way.

Sonicstef Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:49 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

I was going to post what lesley did - trees are a pagan ritual so while I think its a little silly to call something a holiday tree, its actually a more fitting name than Christmas tree.

I personally think that nativity displays and menorahs and any such religious displyas belong in and around religious sites. Churchs, synogagues, temples, the homes of the religious, etc.. The gov't should not spend money on maintaining religious decorations - seperation of church and state is fiercely protected for good reason!

Trees, snowflakes and the like are all signs of the winter season - not any particular holiday so that makes sense.

Maribelle7777 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 09:59 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by wacky

Problem is we have to be politically correct and thats ********. I am catholic, we celebrate xmas, the birth of Jesus Christ.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, however if you're celebrating the birthday of Christ, please don't write 'xmas' because that just takes Christ right out of the picture, IMO.

Misty Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:05 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

I completely agree with the fact we have all become waaaay to PC about everything, and everyone should just stop their biatching. It's a Christmas tree, plain and simple.

I do find it very funny however that the arguments are over the religious nature of two very non-religious items, a Christmas tree (a purely German tradition that spread like wildfire), and a menorah (a non-religious symbol, actually a 'miracle' of sorts, on the least religious of Jewish holidays, that depicts candles burning long enough to let people see for a few extra days).

jenny11.9 Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:06 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Well I think it's a strange thing to CHANGE it to 'holiday'' tree. I mean if it had been called that all along...or like 'Winter' tree or 'celebration' tree - I know a lot of other religions that have trees decorated in their homes this time of year as paying homage to the season - which makes a LOT more sense. I mean - we don't put Christ on top - we put an angel or a star. (are those considered religious?)....this topic can really turn around and around can't it?!!?!?

Sonicstef Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:09 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Misty: Isnt the whole reason why Jews celebrate Hannukah is to remember the miracle of the candles that burned for 8 days? That was how it was explaned to me (but maybe its wrong) so it seems very religious to me.

A Christmas tree has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Pretty sure there were no evergreens in Bethlehem. Hahhaah

Samanthas Mom Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:10 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

I dont think anyone wants to CHANGE (OFFICIALLY CHANGE) it to a holiday tree, dont some people just call it that??? I dont think its going to change nationwide..... to each its own if it makes someone happy to have a holiday tree or a christmas tree
so be it

Misty Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:16 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by Sonicstef

Misty: Isnt the whole reason why Jews celebrate Hannukah is to remember the miracle of the candles that burned for 8 days? That was how it was explaned to me (but maybe its wrong) so it seems very religious to me.

Yes darlin'..you are correct. But it is still the least religious holidays of all the Jewish holidays....and it's commercialization is a direct result of a competitive atmostphere.

A Christmas tree has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Pretty sure there were no evergreens in Bethlehem. Hahhaah

You're also right about that, and, Christ was said to be born in the spring....but that's a whoooooole other topic.

What-Now Posted: Dec 02, 2003 10:17 AM

Re: Allow me to introduce the day's controversy.....

Posted by Sonicstef

A Christmas tree has absolutely nothing to do with Christ. Pretty sure there were no evergreens in Bethlehem. Hahhaah

Stef!

And to confuse the matter even further, I have been calling it New Years tree my whole life! Because we celebrate New Years! May be that's the most PC approach, eh?