Any lawyers or law students????

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Posted by jellybean1420

To tell you the truth, I am not sure I want to work for a big firm in NYC. To me family is the most important thing. I know it is going to be hard to juggle both, but I think it is doable. I live on Long Island and would love to practice here. And I plan on working during law school, so the most convenienct law schools for me are Hofstra, St. Johns and Fordham (which is a slight hike). From what I understand, regardless of where you go to school, if you do well, make law review and have a good internship, you will get a good job. Maybe not making $150,000 to start, but that is not always reality for everyone. Many people have to pay there way through undergrad and the loans are equivalent to 3 years of law school, depending on where you go of course.

What type of law do you all practice?

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be careful that is not an accurate statement, at graduation i sat next to a guy who graduated in the top 10 out of 500 (4th or 5th biggest law school) on law review and did not have a job or a clerkship set up

i work for a medium size firm and get paid well and work the hours i want and it is only my first year - but i have an unusual specialty - i am a patent attorney specializing in computer technology - so lots of jobs for me but that is not the case for everyone

i went to school in Boston because i want to practice there and it worked well for me

There are a bunch of law schools I would rather go to other than St. Johns and Hofstra, but FH is a cop here and doesnt want to move, so I am limited. I can only hope that I can still get a decent job going to those schools.

And it seems like a lot of people are not happy being a lawyer, but it seems like today noone is really happy with their job. There are positives and negatives to every job. It seems like at some point or another, people always question their career and want to do something else. I hear nurse's complain, teachers, engineers, doctors. No job is glamorous all the time.

okay, I have to jump in because this is something that I feel strongly about.

I agree that passing the bar should not be your greatest concern. I passed on the first try but know many others that didn't and just took it again. ALL ended up passing.

If family is the most important thing to you and you are concerned with finances, I would NOT go to law school. I have over $150,00 in law school debt and make payments of about $700 month, which for me is financially draining. I did not go to an Ivy League law school and I was not in the top 10%of my class. I happened to be in the top 11% but on a resume where you are trying to get in a big firm, that 1 % matters, especially when you are not graduating from a top school.

I was insulted to get job offers out of school offering me $35-$50K a year. I made more waitressing. And, they expected me to worl 10-12 hour days for that amount of money.

I now work in finance and make as much or more than my friends in white shoe law firms? Did my law degree help me get my job? Maybe. Are there others that have the same position as me and only have a college degree? Absolutely, except they don't have my debt.

On the positive side, I LOVED being in law school and what I learned. It is a great experience. I did not like the fierce competitiveness.

That being said, and I apologize for being so long-winded, unless you are financially able or being a lawyer is your dream, I agree with the other girls in that you should get a paralegal job first to see if you like it. Being a lawyer is not all that it's cracked up to be.

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Posted by JambaLady

okay, I have to jump in because this is something that I feel strongly about.

I agree that passing the bar should not be your greatest concern. I passed on the first try but know many others that didn't and just took it again. ALL ended up passing.

If family is the most important thing to you and you are concerned with finances, I would NOT go to law school. I have over $150,00 in law school debt and make payments of about $700 month, which for me is financially draining. I did not go to an Ivy League law school and I was not in the top 10%of my class. I happened to be in the top 11% but on a resume where you are trying to get in a big firm, that 1 % matters, especially when you are not graduating from a top school.

I was insulted to get job offers out of school offering me $35-$50K a year. I made more waitressing. And, they expected me to worl 10-12 hour days for that amount of money.

I now work in finance and make as much or more than my friends in white shoe law firms? Did my law degree help me get my job? Maybe. Are there others that have the same position as me and only have a college degree? Absolutely, except they don't have my debt.

On the positive side, I LOVED being in law school and what I learned. It is a great experience. I did not like the fierce competitiveness.

That being said, and I apologize for being so long-winded, unless you are financially able or being a lawyer is your dream, I agree with the other girls in that you should get a paralegal job first to see if you like it. Being a lawyer is not all that it's cracked up to be.

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you are so on point!

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Posted by jellybean1420

Geezzz....I feel like everyone is trying to disuade me from going to law school. I know you have to put in long hours, but I don't see why I can't be a lawyer and have a family? Aren't there women at your firms who have kids? I know it is hard in the beginning, but once you get your foot in the door and establish yourself, I would imagine things slow down more. I know the first few years will be rough. But isnt it rough for most people when they are starting out.

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I practice general litigation at a large NYC firm and I really like my job - the quality of cases I get to work on is great and I really love the people I work with. The hours are draining at first, but you really do get accustomed to it. I knew what I was getting into, so it wasn't a surprise to me. I think a lot of the posters on this thread are just trying to let you know what the negatives are (many of which you don't find out until you're either in law school or already working). Knowledge is power and all that

In terms of family, yes there are women at my firm who have children. The question to ask is not really whether they have kids, but how much time they get to spend with their kids. From what I know, all of the women at my firm who have kids either 1) have a full-time nanny or 2) they have a husband whose job allows him to be home by 5:30/6:00 everyday.

If you did something in public interest or in-house, the hours might be less. When I interned at a non-profit, the attorneys never stayed later than 5:30, for example. But, there are other women on here who actually work in these fields full-time and can probably speak on this topic better than I can.

It's not so much a matter of dissuading you, as it is a matter of being realistic. I cannot speak for government or non-profit jobs, but as for law firm jobs, all my female friends from law school and coworkers average 10-12 hours a day and the occassional weekend.

Law firms usually require minimum billable hours. This means that you have to account for any time you spend on a specific case or file. This is how firms bill their clients, by the amount of time each attorney worls on their case. Most yearly billables are around 2000 hours. Assuming a 50 week year (2 weeks vacation), you have to bill 40 hours a week to make the 2000, which breaks down to 8 billable hours a day. However, not all the time you spend in the office is billable (coffee breaks, lunch, filing, getting your desk in order, and many other miscellaneous activities). So you probably have to be at work about 10 hours a day to bill 8. And this assuming you are working 5 days a week for 50 weeks, which you aren't because there are holidays, and sick days, which you now have to make up for on weekends.

If it is something you really want to do, then by all means, look into it and best wishes. I think most of us are giving our input because we went in not knowing the full extent of what we were getting into. We are just giving you information to base your decision on.

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Posted by jellybean1420

Geezzz....I feel like everyone is trying to disuade me from going to law school. I know you have to put in long hours, but I don't see why I can't be a lawyer and have a family? Aren't there women at your firms who have kids? I know it is hard in the beginning, but once you get your foot in the door and establish yourself, I would imagine things slow down more. I know the first few years will be rough. But isnt it rough for most people when they are starting out.

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Nobody is trying to disuade you - at least I don't read it that way.

I agree with Jennie - the female attorneys I know with kids NEVER see them. In fact, some have openly admitted that having kids put them on the 'mommy track' (passed over for partner). The one I am thinking of was passed over for partner with one child and then she had a second child after making partner.

The work does not 'slow down' once you get your foot in the door. If you want to make partner you cannot slow down after you get in the door at a firm paying $125K to a first year lawyer. There is no way you will be kept on at a firm if you 'slow down' with producing quality work - definitely not at the tune of $125K - $140K (Skadden 1st year salary).

And even after you make partner you are expected to bill a minimum of probably 1900 hours a year as well as bring in clients, do your billing statements (which can take days of back and forth with the person doing the inputs) and attend committee meetings and CLE (continuing legal education) classes since you need those credits - 24 every two years after the first reporting cycle. Some you can do on tape which is convenient if you cannot go to the scheduled classes.

As for kids, I know of one female attorney who waited until she made partner to have kids and she had two sons within 20 months - and even still she was always worried about anyone knowing that she took a few hours off or God forbid a day off to do something with her kids.

Another female partner I know has 4 kids but her husband is a stay at home dad.

I know of another female partner (not a real partner but an income partner that did not get a share in the firms profits) that nearly GAVE BIRTH at her desk. She had a brief to get out when she went into labor. Her water broke and instead of going to the hospital she finished the brief (in pain) and got it to the Fedex person. This was not her first child so maybe she did not think it would hurt to stay at work instead of being at the hospital in labor for hours

In the end, her child was born with serious medical issues that may or may not be due to her staying at work to finish the brief. After all of her loyalty she was passed over for equity partner. She quit and moved out of NY with her husband and kids.

If you want a 9 - 5 job then you should not expect to go to a law firm in NYC. I do not know your background but patent prosecution is a option since the hours are a bit more normal in the sense that you can come in at 8 a.m. and work on your file until 7 p.m. - hopefully finishing it since billing the client for playing catch up the next day you open the file is a no-no. If you are considering litigation then don't even think about having regular hours. I have been working on briefs until 3 a.m. - 4 a.m. WITH THE PARTNERS (my firm and other firms when we had co-counsel) so it definitely does not 'slow down' once you are at a firm for a while.

I know one thing for sure. I do not want to go into litigation. I currently work for the FAA and am more interested in going into government and policy or doing something with trusts will and estates. I have no desire to work 1,000 hrs. a week at a top NYC law firm.

And honestly, if I am a woman at a law firm and not being treated fairly of passed over b/c I have kids, than that is not a law firm I want to work at. That just sounds insane to me. It is what you make of it and what you allow it to be. Everyone has their heart set on something different. Mine is to have a good job being a lawyer, but not giving up my family life for work. That is why I have limited the areas of law I would like to practice to start out. Maybe after I have kids and they are grown and can take care of themselves more, I will change my course and not mind working 24 hrs. day/7 days a week. But work is just that work. When I go home, that is time for me and my family.

There are decent lawyer jobs out there, but the law is definately not a 'family-friendly' field. Just to be realistic. When I worked at a large firm, a woman in the office next to me had a young son, and we all knew all about him b/c of the speaker-phone conversations she had with him and his nanny.

Honestly, its actually hard to get government and public interest jobs, even though they pay less. Out of my friends from law school, only one is happy she did it, but she REALLY likes her job.

I agree that the best way to tell is to work at a firm for at least a year.

HTH. Feel free to FM me with any ?

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Posted by BHW

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Posted by jellybean1420

Many of you have suggested to get a job as a paralegal or working at a law firm? But how do I go about doing that when I don't have any law experience?

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You don't need any legal experience to be a paralegal. Some people get an associate's degree in paralegal work, but that isn't necessary. Most firms hire people as paralegals right out of college.

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This is true. Most of the paralegals at my firm are hired right out of college as well. One of my friends from college was an English major and got a job working as a paralegal for Skadden.

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Posted by jellybean1420

I looked into jobs as a paralegal, but my job now is willing to work with me if I go back to law school. If I get a new job now, I don't know if they would be willing to do that. Do you know any websites where I can look for law firms that need paralegals? I would love to get the exposure first. I had a dual major of english and public relations in college.

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How many hours are you thinking you'll be able to work while going to law school? It's a lot more work than undergrad, especially if you do law review. You could start with Skadden--they hired a bunch of my friends straight from college and are huge. But, the hours are incredibly long for their paralegals--often over 12 hour days.

Even government jobs are long hours. Honestly, I think you really should do some thinking before taking this step. Law school can be a great experience, but it is LONG hours, and the job market is tough. I know TOO many people that thought law school would be a ticket to $$$ and a high-powered job and were sorely disappointed. PLEASE think it through and consider getting a paralegal or legal assistant position first.

Additionally, you can sit in on first year law classes if you call the school to make an appointment.

I think everyone here is being very realistic. Law is not the most family friendly place.

Something to consider - I am on law review and I do have a job lined up for graduation, but i know members of law review that do not. We are graduating in May.

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Posted by lcherian

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Posted by aim325

I'm a lawyer in CA. I wouldn't worry too much about passing or not passing the bar. The bar is just one last test after three years of tests.

I would think about if you even want to be a lawyer. I made the mistake of going to law school w/o really knowing what the practice of law entails. Enduring 3 years of law school is not worth the time, expense, and/or grief of the first year, if you are not sure you want to be a lawyer. Not to mention, how difficult it is to endure if you are constantly thinking, 'Why am I here? What am I doing?'

Luckily, I found what I like to do, but only after 1.5 years of hell and self-doubt.

I would suggest that you paralegal and/or volunteer at a law firm or non profit legal organization, before you decide if you want to go to law school and become a lawyer. I wouldn't spend the money and or time preparing for the LSAT, applying to law schools, and paying tuition without knowing for sure that you want to be lawyer. Remember, law school is just a means to an end.

Also check out: www.jdjive.com. It's a chatroom for law school students. Good luck!

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I couldnt agree with this more!!!

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I definitely agree. And seriously know why you are doing it....I'll never forget my first day of law school, when my dean told us all that if we were there for the $$$, we should not be there...he was definitely right! Unfortunately the market is not that good right now, but if it is what you want to do, good luck!

I agree with everyone who said that you should definitely think long and hard before taking the step. I do have a word of caution regarding working as a paralegal. While it's a great exposure to the law firm world and you can meet attorneys and see what their lives are like, also keep in mind that what you'll be doing as a paralegal is not what you'll be doing as an attorney. As a paralegal, a lot of your work will be busy work like photocopying huge amounts of papers, but you won't necessarily be doing that as a lawyer. So if you hate photocopying for 12 hours, don't necessarily think that means you would hate being a lawyer.

I work long hours as a junior associate at a big New York law firm, but I really do like the work most of the times. I don't like the hours, but I find the work interesting. There are female associates and partners who have kids here, and a lot of them work hard to balance their lives. For example, they would go home, have dinner with their families, tuck their kids into bed, and then stay up to work from home.