OCALA, Florida (AP) -- Two boys were arrested for making pencil-and-crayon stick figure drawings depicting a 10-year-old classmate being stabbed and hung, police said. The children, charged with a felony, were taken from school in handcuffs.
The 9- and 10-year-old boys were arrested Monday and charged with making a written threat to kill or harm another person. They were also suspended from school.
One drawing showed the two boys standing on either side of the other boy and 'holding knives pointed through' his body, according to a police report. The figures were identified by written names or initials.
Another drawing showed a stick figure hanging, tears falling from his eyes, with two other stick figures standing below him. Other pieces of scrap paper listed misspelled profanities and the initials of the boy who was allegedly threatened.
The boys' parents said they thought the children should be punished by the school and families, not the legal system.
Jax430
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Being arrested may scare the kids temporarily, but it will not address the underlying issues that are prompting the kids to act out in this manner. This is why there are so many repeat offenders. If scare tactics worked so well, people would stop after the first felony or crime, and we all know this doesn't happen so readily.
Children act out b/c of negative feelings that they are unequiped to handle. They both need to be in individual therapy out of school as well as some kind of group counseling in school.
ETA: Creating a situation in which these children are scared will just leave them with more negative feelings that they don't know how to handle and will actually make it more likely that they will act out again, in possibly a more severe way next time.
sarahthegreat
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Posted by Jax430
Being arrested may scare the kids temporarily, but it will not address the underlying issues that are prompting the kids to act out in this manner. This is why there are so many repeat offenders. If scare tactics worked so well, people would stop after the first felony or crime, and we all know this doesn't happen so readily.
Children act out b/c of negative feelings that they are unequiped to handle. They both need to be in individual therapy out of school as well as some kind of group counseling in school.
ETA: Creating a situation in which these children are scared will just leave them with more negative feelings that they don't know how to handle and will actually make it more likely that they will act out again, in possibly a more severe way next time.
excellent point, Jackie
violet
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Posted by smm2675
Posted by violet
Arrest is too extreme. I would say requiring them to see a counselor or psychiatrist is enough. It's only a drawing. Disturbing, yes, but arresting them for that? They're only 10.
if they are doing this at 10, what are they going to be like at 17 without some kind of intervention from the authorities?
I said they should be required to see a psychiatrist or counseling. You want to make sure the kid knows what's right and wrong and that violence is never an option, you have to talk to them about it.
sarahthegreat
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Posted by violet
Posted by smm2675
Posted by violet
Arrest is too extreme. I would say requiring them to see a counselor or psychiatrist is enough. It's only a drawing. Disturbing, yes, but arresting them for that? They're only 10.
if they are doing this at 10, what are they going to be like at 17 without some kind of intervention from the authorities?
I said they should be required to see a psychiatrist or counseling. You want to make sure the kid knows what's right and wrong and that violence is never an option, you have to talk to them about it.
i agree - they need therapy.
LoriH
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
I defitiely think these kids need therapy but to charge them with a felony seems a bit extreme.
Kriss2c
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Yes, I think Juvenile courts should be involved. Especially if it were my child being portrayed as the victim in the drawings.
Having studied art a little, I think the children drawing such instances, regardless of their age, is very disturbing. Almost along the same lines as serial killers abusing animals in their childhood.
Blu-ize
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
I believe that if the kids are rebellious, they will not attend the therapy sessions or tune out the therapist. This is a no win situation. I have lived it with my brother, the therapy route didn't work. The juvenile hall did. The reality is that therapy works for people who want the help.
Jax430
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Posted by Blu-ize
I believe that if the kids are rebellious, they will not attend the therapy sessions or tune out the therapist. This is a no win situation. I have lived it with my brother, the therapy route didn't work. The juvenile hall did. The reality is that therapy works for people who want the help.
I appreciate what you're saying, but at the same time, I have to point out that it is very rare that a child wants to go to therapy. It is usually imposed upon them by their parents. Yet, child therapy is often very successful. Not in every case though.
It is important for everyone to realize that we can't make broad generalizations about what works and doesn't, b/c there are so many factors that contribute - child's personality, familial support. Different things are going to work for different people...often it's a combination of things that deal with both the behavior and underlying emotions and attitudes that trigger the behaviors.
Bunnymonkey
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
They should not be locked up - they should be brought immediatly to therapy.
That's the problem with the country. We don't believe in rehab - just punishment. It rarely helps.
don424
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Posted by Bunnymonkey
They should not be locked up - they should be brought immediatly to therapy.
That's the problem with the country. We don't believe in rehab - just punishment. It rarely helps.
i think both are needed
punishment and therapy
lilmrs
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
If you put yourself in the place of the parents of the boy in the picture being stabbed and hanged, then I think that them being pulled out in handcuffs and scared is a great thing. I think I would demand expulsion as well since I would always be in fear that these children would act out on my child. These are not just kids being kids, these are not just playful drawings, these children need to get some serious help!
Sassyz75
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Posted by lilmrs
If you put yourself in the place of the parents of the boy in the picture being stabbed and hanged, then I think that them being pulled out in handcuffs and scared is a great thing. I think I would demand expulsion as well since I would always be in fear that these children would act out on my child. These are not just kids being kids, these are not just playful drawings, these children need to get some serious help!
put if you also put yourself in the shoes of the parents OF the kids- I would find myself feeling that it is a little alarmist.. It just continues this culture in the country of taking every little thing literally... I think of some of the things I've said as a kid or things that were said to me and HALF of those things could be constituted as 'felony worthy'... Honestly when I was in school we had a list of people we would've liked God to strike dead... and I know that is mean- but we certainly weren't going to DO it.. fantasy & reality is too different things.
On top of it- when I tell my husband that I 'am going to kill him' does that mean I have to go to jail too?
It's like when I was a kid and I jokingly told my friends I wanted to kill myself and she told and I had to see the school therapist who EASILY realized I certainly was NOT going to kill myself.. but these days they ship you to South Oaks for a year!
lilmrs
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
If I was the parents of the kids that did the drawing I would be disturbed beyond belief and would need to find out if there was any way or indication that my child would ever carry these acts out.
RedHead
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
Posted by Jax430
Posted by Blu-ize
I believe that if the kids are rebellious, they will not attend the therapy sessions or tune .
I appreciate what you're saying, but at the same time, I have to point out that it is very rare that a child wants to go to therapy. It is usually imposed upon them by their parents. Yet, child therapy is often very successful. Not in every case though.
It is important for everyone to realize that we can't make broad generalizations about what works and doesn't, b/c there are so many factors that contribute - child's personality, familial support. Different things are going to work for different people...often it's a combination of things that deal with both the behavior and underlying emotions and attitudes that trigger the behaviors.
I have to say i agree...I do think therapy is in order BUT i do like the scare tactic part of it as well...scare tactics actually do work on some levels for some people. AND i definately think expulsion IS necessary... Those drawing are not the drawing i saw kids make when i was that age... IMO things like this should not be taken lightly at all
september2004
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Posted by violet
Arrest is too extreme. I would say requiring them to see a counselor or psychiatrist is enough. It's only a drawing. Disturbing, yes, but arresting them for that? They're only 10.
i guess this is how i see it as well...
lolita4life
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i think handcuffing a 10 yr old is ridiculous. thats not scaring him... its traumatizing him!
RedHead
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Posted by lolita4life
i think handcuffing a 10 yr old is ridiculous. thats not scaring him... its traumatizing him!
i don't think it is any more traumatizing then seeing your classmates draw pictures of KNIVES in your chest...OR you being HUNG with tears running down your face... If i was that kids MOTHER...I would have been traumatized !!!
lilmrs
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Posted by oct.2004bride
Posted by lolita4life
i think handcuffing a 10 yr old is ridiculous. thats not scaring him... its traumatizing him!
i don't think it is any more traumatizing then seeing your classmates draw pictures of KNIVES in your chest...OR you being HUNG with tears running down your face... If i was that kids MOTHER...I would have been traumatized !!!
I couldn't agree more! These were not cute, innocent drawings! The stick figures had names under them! There was more than one drawing. I don't feel a lot of pity for these children...I don't know if they need to be scared,get therapy or both but they need serious HELP!
MrsERod
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Re: debate for the day- what do you think of this?
I def think they need therapy...and if taking them out in handcuffs is enough of a scare tactic to teach them a lesson, then so be it. Had Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold been taught such a lesson, then maybe Columbine would've never happened. Unfortunately, we'll never know.
lolita4life
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