Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Original post by NovemberSue

Mar 20, 2003 05:23 PM

It made me sick.If she has a problem with living in this country,she should go live in another country and see if she has it that easy there!

Becky Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:14 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Having studied the Consitiution ad naseum, I believe that freedom of speech is the basis upon which this entire county operates. And freedom of speech means you have the right to express a minority opinion.

I wonder why any so-called patriot would support installing a democratic government in Iraq, while arguing for the curtailment of democratic freedoms in our own country? Deportation or cutting off financial support to those who need it based solely upon publicly speaking out about any law or policy is the characteristic of a tryanny, not a democracy.

I am playing devils advocate when I say perhaps those who prefer a tryanny should leave this country is search of a more oppressive regime that will stamp out any possibility of someone disrespecting the majority. Just something to think about and not a suggestion that anyone here should go live in Iraq.

I have seen many Congress people publicly state that they are embarassed and ashamed of the actions that this country has taken this week. What about them?

Misty Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:14 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

The basketball player is a young female student at Manhattan College...

And if we didn't have the right to disgree with our governement, what would the point of this democracy be? But, we are fighting for the people that get killed doing so right now.

Think about it, if this girl did this in Iraq, she'd be killed. Instantly. End of story. Anything that she protests when it comes to this war will be hipocracy on her part in my opinion. If it's the war she's protesting, than she's protesting the very right she has right now!

My God, all this round and round and we WONDER why the world can't get along. This is like a bunch of relatives sitting around a table arguing. And we expect the UN to come up with something?

alina Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:21 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I think the girls refusal to give explanation to the media doesn't mean that she has nothing to say, bur rather that she doesn't want to say whatever is on her mind and it is not her obligation to do so. She does not need to explain her actions.

dkga1026 Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:22 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

She did give an explanation. It's quoted in the article that someone linked to above.

NovemberSue Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:22 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I see it as she doesn't have anything valid to say!

cw0904 Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:22 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I know I am jumping into this late, but I did see this on tv a few times. I am specifically talking about the girl playing basketball for Manhattanville. I honestly don’t let this stuff bother me. We all have our rights to do what we want in this country. And we all have a right to speak our mind. Last night for instance I left work and there was a protest going on in reference to the war. I avoided the area and moved on. I have mixed views on the war and I have mixed views on what this girl has done. But I truly believe that unless you experience something for yourself, you really can’t give a full opinion on it. I didn’t read the links attached but going based off of what some of you mentioned here, if she is so oppressed as is her family by the US government, she should go to third world countries to really experience what oppression is.

I think sometimes people jump the gun and don’t realize what you have until you experience something less. I can admit I take advantage of what I have. And I can also admit I take things I have for granted. I have gone to areas in West Virginia and upstate New York that live in poverty. I have been to countries where I have seen children walking with no shoes begging for money. I have seen pregnant women sitting on the floor, dirty and hungry begging for money. I have seen people’s homes, which are shacks on stilts, and their ground is mud. Where people wash their clothes in the river’s water.

And thankfully because of my parents I am where I am today. And when I visit these countries I am so proud to be an American. So proud I have the freedom to speak my mind and not be scared of whether I will be arrested for violating the government’s rules-which are by far no where close to ours. I am so thankful that I have a hard roof over my head and we can wash our clothes in machines and not by hand. I am so thankful we have food on our plate’s everyday. So thankful we have light in our homes and running hot and cold water every time we need it. So thankful that although I don’t agree with some of the government views and their position on some things, our government is not as corrupt as most out there. And I am extremely thankful that I can leave my country at a drop of a hat if I really wanted to. Where I can take my passport, head to the airport and find any country on a map and buy a ticket instantly.

yabbobay Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:25 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Either case...it is symbolic speech...like the students during the Vietnam War (??Tinker v Des Moisne - wow...have no clue how to spell that-lol)
who wore black arm bands...to protest the war...the Supreme Court said they had the right to do that...under symbolic speech...

Valenia Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:25 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

The fact that conditions are worse elsewhere is no reason to insist that individuals be complacent about the conditions here.

This sounds shockingly like the mentality of someone who has been abused -- I still love him, he only hits me occassionally. Its not as bad as the person next door, she gets beaten to the point of hospitalization. I have no right to complain when someone else has it worse! I should be grateful! Puhlease.

alina Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:28 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

dkga, you're right.

Here is the girl's quote from one of the articles:

'For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag'

Let the debate continue

NovemberSue Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:29 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

This was pulled from the article that someone posted:Smith declined to be interviewed and Lincoln, who said he knew the reasons for Smith's protest, would not elaborate. 'She has her personal reasons,' Lincoln said. 'She felt strongly about not talking in public about it.'

I don't know where anyone heard her reasoning for it.I didn't see a thing on it.
I also don't wish to waste anymore time on her.
I am done with this!

OctBride03 Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:30 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I'm wondering if people would have the same reaction if she stood facing the flag, but put her head down......

alina Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:31 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

And something else to ponder, over the most recent economic boom in the 1990's, the earning gap between the top x% and the bottom 1x% has widened. I will try to find the link to the article for you guys.

NovemberSue Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:32 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Valenia_totally not getting the analogy here with an abused person. Nobody is going to agree 100% on everything.What does that have to do with anything?

dkga1026 Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:33 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Here is the quote from an Associated Press article printed in Newsday (I think I mistakenly said CNN before)

'For some time now, the inequalities that are embedded into the American system have bothered me. As they are becoming progressively worse and it is clear that the government's priorities are not on bettering the quality of life for all of its people, but rather on expanding its own power, I cannot, in good conscience, salute the flag,' Smith said in a statement released Thursday

Valenia Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:34 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

NOVEMBERBRIDE - Ok, allow me to clarify. This girl feels as though she has been hurt by the country. She is expressing unhappiness. Some here have expressed the opinion that she is ungrateful, and has no right to complain because things are soooo much worse elsewhere. My point is that just because somebody else has it worse, doesn't mean that she has it as good as it gets!

alina Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:37 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I think Valenia means that although one is not happy in country X, they shouldn't just compare that country to the bad countries but also to the good countries and strive to get there.

alina Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:38 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Valenia, we posted almost at same time

cw0904 Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:42 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I am not understanding what Valenia is saying.

OctBride03 Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:44 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

I think she means, just because she has it better in America then someone in another country, doesn't mean she doesn't have the right to stand up for what she believes in.

NovemberSue Posted: Mar 21, 2003 12:46 PM

Re: Did anyone see that girl in some school who turned her back and refused to do the pledge of allegiance?

Ok, no govenment,country or person will be perfect.Everything has its flaws.
I find her to be very disrespectful to be turning her back on the flag (which represents the USA) which gives people more rights than any other country I can think of!

I have my feelings on this as you have yours.That is what makes this country so great.I do however have a problem with her disrespecting the country in which she lives and gives her so many rights.
With that, I am done.

We are all entitled to our opinions. 'In my opinion', I think she's wrong and I don't like her actions. But we can disagree. I still love ya all!