Farenheit 911

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Posted by september2004

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Posted by eogara

It's largely a 'family' business and since it's not the highest paying profession, those families are not upper class. Thus, not an enormous upper class in the armed forces. Joining does afford many opportunities to 'poor' people but why this is a bad thing, I'm not certain.

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yes, it's not a bad thing if it is not abused. people sign up to serve honorably, not to be taken to war under false pretenses and then killed...

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Just because your FH has 'personal connections' doesn't mean I do and I resent the implication. I grew up the youngest of five in a single parent family where my mom made a grand total of $13K/year. I made my own opportunities as did my mother. She continued to work hard and is doing way better now. I worked hard in school, got scholarships and took out loans to go to college. Tell me again about underpriviledged people who have no opportunities??

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you stated your brother decided to become a cop, wasn't that supposed to be a supportive argument in the case you were making?

my parents came to the states with not a pot to pee in. they worked menial jobs and paid their own way through school and provided a better life for their children - the american dream. unfortunately i think times have changed as this is a different day and age.

i am entitled to my opinion and you are yours...

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It still is - he became a cop because he wanted to. I should have stated this previously but he actaully took a 35% paycut from his (then) current job to go into the academy because he wanted to do it. He, like me, had made his own opportunities, and then had options.

Agree to disagree.

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Posted by Xelindrya

I cringe to know someone made money off recreating or even reshowing that.

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I believe you are referring to our media/news stations - including the Discovery channel and the BBC. The ones who shoved down our throats, the images, hundreds of times over. The same scenes - without warning - day in and day out for months.

What MM showed was the people on the streets...their reactions. I don't think it was distasteful nor do I think it was sensationalism. It was actually quite moving.

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Posted by Jordan

I believe you are referring to our media/news stations - including the Discovery channel and the BBC. The ones who shoved down our throats, the images, hundreds of times over. The same scenes - without warning - day in and day out for months.

What MM showed was the people on the streets...their reactions. I don't think it was distasteful nor do I think it was sensationalism. It was actually quite moving.

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I'm too close to this. So I must disagree. I NEVER watch anything about it at all. I know what happened, I was there. And I'll tell you something else, it was not like they show on TV or shows.

Who knows, *I* may actually be in his movie then. There was a man standing behind me with a large camera. I later found out his footage made the CBS show 9/11. My SIL swears she sees a glimpse of me before all heck broke loose.

Those channels don't show that anymore. I also don't pay for it. (literally). I know it sounds childish, stupid or extreme, but I oh well.

I don't need to be 'moved' about 9/11. The nightmares I still have move me enough. The bracelets that have the names of our dead friends that we (Jim & I both) have is enough. I have no fascination or draw to see any part of that day relived, when I must feel the pain of it daily.

That's why I can understand her DH not wanting to see it. No matter how 'small' or 'tasteful' or 'moving' that part may be. I'd probably see it starting right afterwards. But I can't sit and watch 'reactions' because I already know what those people are thinking. None of that changes the facts for me.

I woke up on a beautiful September morning to go to my job where I had just been promoted and to talk to my best friend to share the news and decline an offer to work on the 92nd floor. Evil men who just HATE America PERIOD flew airplanes filled with innocent people into both buildings to kill and cause harm. They were successful. My friend is dead and my office was destroyed. Ever since that day I have to hear, watch and know that folks need to 'know' what happened that day and 'relive' it and 'learn' from it. People want to 'blame' someone. I blame that ba$tards flying. Is that so naive of me?

I support this war, our troops and the cause. Another reason I probably won't see this movie (not documentary). JMHO

Though I do support free speech and the freedom of anyone to go see this and formulate their own opinions.

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Posted by Xelindrya
I'm too close to this. So I must disagree. I NEVER watch anything about it at all. I know what happened, I was there. And I'll tell you something else, it was not like they show on TV or shows.

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I was there as well. So were thousands of other people...

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I blame that ba$tards flying. Is that so naive of me?

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Maybe not necessarily naive, but perhaps a little short-sighted? (I am not attempting to be condescending, just presenting a different point of view) Are you interested in why people hate us or is it just enough to know that they do. It does not excuse their behavior, but there is a larger picture and a broader problem that needs to be solved in an effort at least to try to ameliorate the problem...

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I support this war, our troops and the cause. Another reason I probably won't see this movie (not documentary). JMHO

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I support our troops, NOT the war, NOT the cause, but I do support our troops...so does Michael Moore. I think if it wasn't called a documentary then it would be automatically discredited - I don't think it's an appropriate classification, but then again I don't know what is...

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Though I do support free speech and the freedom of anyone to go see this and formulate their own opinions.

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finally, something we agree on!

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Posted by september2004

I was there as well. So were thousands of other people...

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Yep and they can all have their own opinion just like I have mine. I certainly have no need or desire to relive it. My personal opinion is I wish I was never there that morning.

I really don't understand why anyone is in fancinated with it. Sort of like those REAL documentaries about why the towers fell. Hours and hours of real facts and truths when the simple answer is 'Because two airplanes flown by Evil Men went through them'

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Are you interested in why people hate us or is it just enough to know that they do. It does not excuse their behavior, but there is a larger picture and a broader problem that needs to be solved in an effort at least to try to ameliorate the problem...

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Am I interested why they hate us? No. Why because there is NO solution to that. Even in our own society hate is undecriminate. You don't have to have a valid reason to hate and you can't make someone stop hating you. No politician alive can do that.

Same light as the fact they behead innocents because they can, don't you want to now that if we did EVERYTHING they asked that they'd still kill that man? of course they would. Nothing is going to stop their hate of us.

Doesn't matter whose in the White House or who's the head of the PTA. People will ALWAYS hate America. There will ALWAYS be terrorist. That's how I see the big picture. We can stop whining and realize it or we can pretend it someone's fault. Personally, I am over it. I KNOW they hate us for no other reason than they can. You can dress it up anyway you want, if it makes you sleep better at night, but the fact is, they hate us in such a away we can never truly understand. Their hate is so deep and so dark nothing we can do will satisify them unless every last one of us is dead.

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I support our troops, NOT the war, NOT the cause, but I do support our troops...so does Michael Moore. I think if it wasn't called a documentary then it would be automatically discredited - I don't think it's an appropriate classification, but then again I don't know what is...

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for the first part.. That's your opinion. *shrug*
for the second part, how about just NOT calling it a documentary at all. Calling it such makes it a lie. Why not just call it a movie, we all already KNOW Michael Moore's work and how he likes to show his opinion, why dress it up? OH YEAH for sales. sorry I forgot.

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Though I do support free speech and the freedom of anyone to go see this and formulate their own opinions.

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finally, something we agree on!

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See, sharing opinions are ok.

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Posted by mrswask

joy - check your fm

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we've taken this thread over and all you wanted was a date!

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Posted by kdelace

guys, all she was asking for was someone to go with, not a whole monologue of opinions that thread was started already. GEEZ!!!!!

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well i guess i should have created a 'SPINOFF thread' then...GEEZ to you!!!

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Posted by Xelindrya

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Posted by 121502

I already saw it and I can tell you for your FH that it doesn't really deal with that day at all. I totally understand how he feels, but just so YOU know going into it, it starts out with images of people on the streets that day, but then that is the last they show or even talk about.

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I had to watch that first hand. No way in hell or heaven I will EVER pay to experience that again. For anything.


Knowing I saw the last of someone's wife, husband, father, mother, aunt, uncle, brother, sister or friend die in a way like that will haunt me forever. I cringe to know someone made money off recreating or even reshowing that.

That's just horrible.

JMO

He used 9/11 in the title mostly to get people to go watch it. Sick part is, it works.

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I am not a Michael Moore fan but I have to say one thing regarding making money off this. Michael Moore is known for donating a lot of his money that he makes from movies to causes that relate to the movie. I believe, and I could be wrong, that he announced before the movie came out that he is donating money to the 9/11 fund and to various other funds. I'm sure he's still making money on the movie but at least he's not like a lot of other people and using the movie to just make money. He is very big on donating proceeds to causes so I would be shocked if he is not doing that for this.

Also I think people in general have the wrong idea of what this movie is about. It's not just about 9/11. Actually the description of the movie is this:

Oscar-winning documentary filmmaker and liberal firebrand Michael Moore ('Bowling for Columbine') strikes again with this criticism of the Bush administration's Middle East policies before and after September 11, 2001. Moore focuses especially on the effect new laws have had on civil liberties and on the deep connections between the First Family and the Saudi royal family.

Also, with respect to the 'asking the senators to sign their sons up for war', no one signs anyone's son up for war. Those who join the armed forces are adults who make their own decisions, knowing the potential consequences. It bothers me so much when people say things like this - it totally underestimates the intelligence of the service men and women. There's no draft on right now, there's not one person over there that is not there by a somewhat voluntary means.

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I 100% agree with this statement. Right now there is no draft. I feel bad for the people that are fighting this war. I'm not saying that I agree with the war. But when you sign up for the armed forces you know that at some point you might be called to action. Whether or not you agree with the war doesn't matter when you sign up. It's a risk you take. A high risk, but it comes with the territory. My heart breaks for our troops and their families but it's part of the life that comes with joining the armed forces. Just like being a police officer or a firefighter. You risk your life to save others.

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Posted by Jenn524

Also, with respect to the 'asking the senators to sign their sons up for war', no one signs anyone's son up for war. Those who join the armed forces are adults who make their own decisions, knowing the potential consequences. It bothers me so much when people say things like this - it totally underestimates the intelligence of the service men and women. There's no draft on right now, there's not one person over there that is not there by a somewhat voluntary means.

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I 100% agree with this statement. Right now there is no draft. I feel bad for the people that are fighting this war. I'm not saying that I agree with the war. But when you sign up for the armed forces you know that at some point you might be called to action. Whether or not you agree with the war doesn't matter when you sign up. It's a risk you take. A high risk, but it comes with the territory. My heart breaks for our troops and their families but it's part of the life that comes with joining the armed forces. Just like being a police officer or a firefighter. You risk your life to save others.

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I should start by saying that I whole heartily support our troops. All of the men in my DH's family have served in the service(DH was not allowed to enter due to medical reasons). And I think there are a lot of people who are in the armed services due to being a tradition(so to speak) in their family(DH not being able to join the army is something that haunts him to this day). And yes there is no draft going on, but I believe Michael Moore is trying to point to the fact that recruiters do put pressure on young people that this is the best route for them, if they have no direction or no money for school. I am sure for some this may be true. But I don't know how well it is really expressed to this young men & women that their is a good possibility they will be in an actual war & possibly lose their life. I'm sorry, but no senator's kid is having recruiters tell them that the army is the best option they have like the poor & lower middle class children are. I honestly speak from experience, again I have family in the military & it was the way for them, but I also know 18 year old BOYS who joined(very recently) because they felt this was going to bring them a great promising future, & are really clueless that they couldn't be sent to a very scary place tomorrow. Also my FIL was a recruiters for many years(he just retired), so I mean know offense to them at all!!! This is the job they are given to do, but I believe someone came up w/ these ideas on who should be recruited & how. This is JMHO, & I mean to offend noone.

Seriously guys...all I was looking for was a Friday night date!!

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Posted by mrswask

Seriously guys...all I was looking for was a Friday night date!!

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call me at work tomorrow ill be your date