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I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Original post by Xelindrya

I REALLY don't get it.
Yeah yeah.. being a survivor of 9/11 and all that jazz you'd think I'd be angry about rubbing our faces in 9/11. That's not my point really.

Regardless of the issue I don't understand why the media seems to imply that the public doesnt want Bush to use 9/11 in any of his campaining but bring special attention to Kerry when he does as if he's telling us something new.

this CNN clip ticked me off
'Had I been reading to children and had my top aide whispered in my ear, 'America is under attack,' I would have told those kids very politely and nicely that the president of the United States had something that he needed to attend to -- and I would have attended to it,'


GIMME A BREAK
Dont tell me what you WOULD have done if you're president, tell me what you THINK you can do. Don't tell me you change laws, because you can't, our senate does that NOT you.

Don't use what you WOULD have done on 9/11 to justify yourself as 'better' than the currnet president. Hindsight's 20/20 and makes you look stupid to try to change it. I won't even drag out his flip flop on the war issue .. that's not important to me as much as saying that he THINKS he would have done better on 9/11. That ANNOYS me! The World was changed forever, crap that NO ONE could predict happens and now this guy who wants to be my president says 'well I would have...' GRRRRRRR backseat driver from hell!

If I had known a plane was gonna fly through my building maybe I would have .... (deleted I got too personal)

point is... this is BS and it ticks me off!

Just had to get that off my chest. I know I am in minority for not liking Kerry. I'd have preferred to other democrats (the general or edwards) going up against Bush. Kerry makes me think of Ken from Ken & Barbie, plastic smiles and easily positioned to make you think he's something you want. He's show me NOTHING that makes me think he's qualified to be president. And no I really don't give a flying Feck about this 3 purple hearts!

VENT!!!!
Sassyz75 Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

As I had written, while I do not think fattening the pockets of his Cronies was Bush's primary motivation to going into Iraq, I do thin it was seen as a perk- as in, 'we have to go in there anyway- so lets have my friends get the best of it'.. which is wrong.. and makes the United States look like the evil empire the rest of the world proports us to be.. see below- very long.

More disturbing news from Iraq: Now United Nations auditors are complaining the Bush administration is holding back information concerning more than $1 billion in reconstruction contracts awarded to several well-connected American firms without competitive bidding.

The complaints come from the International Advisory and Monitoring Board -- a bookkeeping creation of the UN Security Council that includes members from the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. The board was set up to make sure Iraq's oil revenue would be handled in proper fashion throughout the American occupation.

The audit in question only covers the start of the war to the end of last year, and is being conducted by one of the global accounting giants, the firm KPMG, whose auditors bitched just before last weekend that repeated routine requests for internal files relating to more than $10 billion in Iraq's oil proceeds since the war began have been stiff-armed by the Pentagon and White House. One of these internal audits includes three no-bid contracts worth a total $1.4 billion awarded to the Texas oil services behemoth Halliburton, the company Vice President **** Cheney ran before stepping down to join Bush the Younger's year 2000 presidential campaign ticket. (Cheney still receives almost $1 million annually as part of his severance contract.)

One of the Halliburton contracts provided for importing and distributing fuels to keep Iraq going during the occupation and rebuilding -- and is the subject of other fiscal probes after complaints the huge firm was gouging by over-pricing the gas and oil. That contract was paid for out of Iraqi oil revenues.

KPMG says the initial $10 billion in Iraqi oil proceeds seems to have been properly deposited in the American-run Development Fund for Iraq, but it can't tell how the money is being spent. No evidence of fraud is reported, but KPMG beefed about lax bookkeeping, little financial control over key Iraqi ministries, duplicate salary payments to some Iraqi government employees, the bartering of Iraqi crude oil for Syrian electricity, and the continued lack of oil-pumping meters on Iraqi export shipping platforms despite repeated UN requests for such devices -- a failure that may have led to 'an unknown quantity of oil smuggled out of Iraq following the war.'

The Pentagon refused to say much about all this except to insist the American-run Coalition Provisional Authority (CPA) was doing the best it could in a 'very challenging environment.' Pentagon spokesman Lt. Commander Flex Plexico (one of my all-time favorite government names) said the CPA had made 'every effort to bring sound management transparency and oversight to the Development Fund for Iraq while at the same time improving the quality of life for the Iraqi people.'

Another KPMG audit covering the start of this year up until June 28, when the CPA relinquished power to an interim and hand-picked Iraqi government, is being conducted. The interim government, in order to keep track of the spending of oil revenues in the future, has created a Board of Supreme Audit, but the head of it -- a man said to have ample fiscal skills -- was assassinated in recent weeks. The auditors said they will continue to ask for all the Bush administration's no-bid contracts paid for with Iraqi oil income.

While the KPMG auditors also complained about lack of access to other no-bid contracts for rebuilding Iraq, and while the American public seems only dimly aware such goodies were handed out, the identities of some of the favored firms are well-known.

Even some of the rebuild-Iraq contracts handed out by the Bush administration after competitive bidding are controversial.

Bechtel Corp. is a San Francisco-based company with solid connections to the Bush White House. President Ronald Reagan's former Secretary of State George Shultz is on the board and senior vice president Jack Sheehan is a member of the Defense Policy Board, which advises Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Bechtel was awarded a $680 million contract from the United States Agency for International Development to rehabilitate Iraq's power, water and sewage systems and rebuild its only port. The bidding process was somewhat secretive and open only to a select group of American corporations.

The Center for Responsive Politics in Washington reports that the six firms allowed to bid on the contract contributed $3.6 million to American politicians in the three previous years -- two-thirds of it to Republicans, and that Bechtel contributed $1.3 million of the total. Bechtel has been criticized by some Iraqis for failing to provide drinkable water that meets even the questionable potability standards of Saddam Hussein's regime.

All of which is to note there is now an iron-clad, unbreakable and ultimately unhealthy bond between the American military and private industry.

Even before the Iraqi war, the Pentagon was spending about 8 percent of its overall budget -- at least $30 billion -- on private military companies. Gone is the familiar World War II template of our self-sufficient Armed Forces defending our shores and beleaguered friends in distant lands without much outside help. With the downsizing of the American military came a quiet Pentagon reaction: outsourcing every thinkable job to the private sector.

KP duty and laundry detail in Afghanistan and Iraq? Private contractors.

Uniformed, ramrod-tall recruiter in full dress? Replaced in at least 60 American cities by casually clothed private sector headhunters.

Beetle Bailey mowing the lawn and throwing garbage bags on an Army base? Inaccurate portrayal. Now it's a private 'landscaper' and civilian 'sanitation engineer.'

The Pentagon pays private companies as much as $4 billion a year for war fighting exercises. A publicly-traded firm called Cubic recently brought in Bosnian refugees from around the United States to Fort Polk so they could recreate their gruesome experiences for American soldiers participating in war games.

At the end of last year, there were about 10,000 private contractor workers on the ground in Iraq -- outnumbering the second-largest contingent of Coalition troops, the British with 9,900.

Even the Pentagon manual on dealing with private contractors was written by a private contractor.

The Pentagon (and Bush administration) excuses all this by contending the downsized military, already stretched unbelievably thin, has to be left to do the actual fighting -- so these ancillary jobs and programs are better handled by civilians. The numbers are surprising. Thirteen years ago in the Gulf War, when Bush the Elder sent Saddam scurrying back to Baghdad, active duty troops in the Army numbered 711,000. Today that number is about 485,000 -- a reduction of almost a third.

None of this civilian element in the military is new in concept. Private contractors hauled food wagons in the Civil War. In Vietnam, more than 3,000 DynCorps workers serviced Huey helicopters. As recently as five years ago, a Halliburton subsidiary was making almost $3 billion by providing water, meals, mail and laundry for 20,000 American troops in the Balkans.

Private companies pursuing military goals goes back at least four centuries. In the early 1600s, Holland established the Dutch East India Company to free up trade routes, fight the British fleet, and prosecute a protracted war of independence against powerful Spain and Portugal. It fought several wars on its own. At its peak, it boasted 40 ships of war and 10,000 professional soldiers.

Same for the famed British East India Company. The original Queen Elizabeth chartered it on the last day of 1600. Its focus was mainly on India, where the firm quickly acquired almost all auxiliary governmental and military functions. It established huge trade monopolies, once employed the pirate Captain Kidd, put Napoleon into exile, and its flag inspired our Stars and Stripes.

So while history may yawn at civilian help in military pursuits, what is currently astounding in the American experience is the scale of this privatization. Perhaps this is what President Dwight D. Eisenhower had in mind way back when I was a college freshman, watching his farewell address on TV in January of 1961. Although the speech drew little attention at the time, it was pretty surprising.

Here was Ike, a president who quadrupled defense spending, the World War II commander in the European theater and a military leader all his life -- sometimes lumped in accolade with Winston Churchill as a savior of the western world from Hitler -- warning sternly against the dangers of a vast military-industrial complex he could see in our near future.

It showed amazing prescience, but the address totally confused the American media, so they generally ignored the speech. In it, Eisenhower warned of 'grave implications' to the 'very structure of our society' if our military meshes inextricably with the private sector. 'In the councils of government,' Ike intoned, 'we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.'

Somewhere, Ike is ruefully shaking his head. These concerns are drawing new voice.

Dan Briody is author of the book 'The Iron Triangle: Inside the Secret World of the Carlyle Group' -- an investment entity that he calls 'the model example of the nearly seamless connection between the Bush administration, self-enrichment and companies who receive big government defense contracts.'

Bush the Elder, his former Secretary of State James Baker, and former Defense Secretary Frank Carlucci are longtime 'consultants' to the Carlyle firm. The book, published last year, opens with a reference to the Eisenhower farewell speech. Briody, in a recent Internet interview on www.buzzflash.com, termed Ike's warning 'exactly what we're seeing today.'

He claimed, 'We're seeing a very tight-knit group of companies and private military contractors that are virtually indistinguishable from various administrations and the political infrastructure of Washington, D.C. -- so much so that it's not clear whose interests we're acting on when we go to war.'

If the White House of Bush the Younger disagrees, it could do a lot to diminish such doubt by complying with the requests of UN auditors.
Bride626 Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

OK..I thought this article would be the 'smoking gun' that linked the entire Bush administration to mass murder and fraudulently going to war in Iraq and proving me wrong. But then, I read it. It doesn't even mention Iraq but instead talks of a Halliburton's accounting fraud case, wherein Cheney is not even named a defendant. These type of lawsuits are actually somewhat common.

Linking this civil action with a devious scheme to go to war is quite tenuous. It proves nothing about the war. This has been my point.... The people who routinely assign corrupt motives to Iraq, to terror threats, etc. never provide actual direct causal evidence. Just speculation, conjecture. Not enough, in my view, to change my mind.
shawl Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

I agree that preserving the security of the US and its citizens is a major - perhaps the major - issue in this election. I disagree that the Bush administration has been successful in achieving this goal; indeed, I think they have done more to endanger Americans (and I'm not just talking about soldiers) than to keep us safe.

Going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do, but since the start of the Iraq war in particular, support for operations in Afghanistan is not anywhere near the level it should be. The terrorists who attacked on September 11th and the madrassas training the next generation of terrorists are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, etc. They are not in Iraq - or, if they are, they were not there *before* the US attacked. I have seen no concrete evidence that convinces me that Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for September 11th.

My view, then, is that a necessary strategy to protect US citizens includes strengthening our forces dramatically in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan. We also should be actively reforming the educational systems and other social services in these countries in order to provide alternatives for poor families who send their sons to madrassas for lack of better alternatives.

But instead, we have invaded Iraq. This policy, I believe, has made the US less secure, not more so. It has created additional resentment of 'US imperialism' in the Middle East and Arab world. It has squandered the goodwill offered to us in the wake of September 11th. Rather than leveraging that goodwill to show our best face to those who are being told that we are heartless, faithless and cruel, we have invaded another country without cause, violating a host of international laws, and, in many ways, terrorized its citizens. We have, in other words, shown them our worst face. Here in the US we have seen very little of the suffering endured by innocent Iraqi citizens. We supposedly went to Iraq in search of terrorists - insofar as we have found them, I would argue that they are of our own creation.

Let me also add that I find this policy to be the worst type of breach of contract with our military. Not only were they deceived, but the administration has behaved abominably with respect to its reluctance to discuss casualties (not allowing coffins to be shown on TV, etc) earlier in the conflict. To my knowledge, we don't yet have accurate numbers on wounded. The number of fatalities is already too high, but given the high quality of medical care that our troops receive, it is likely that thousands more have survived, but with severe and life-altering injuries.

I have given this question a great deal of thought, and I still don't understand the cause of war with Iraq. I don't buy the argument that the US went in to enforce UN resolutions; it seems to me a fig leaf, as this administration clearly has little or no regard for the UN. Based on early (pre-war) reports, I was also skeptical about whether Iraq had WMD. But even if Iraq did have WMD, they never had the delivery systems to attack the US. And if one were to make the argument that Iraq would sell or give WMD to terrorists, I would point out that countries like Pakistan and North Korea (which *definitely* have WMD) are much more dangerous in that regard. So, why Iraq? We may never know (or at least, not for the next 30 years or so, until the administration's records are declassified). But the salient point for me is that invading Iraq has made the US - citizens and soldiers - less secure, rather than more secure. And I firmly believe that neither Gore nor Kerry would have pursued this course; I think they would have been more likely to spend more resources in countries that truly give safe harbor to terrorists. I also think they would have been more likely to spend more resources on researching alternative fuel sources so that the US would no longer be as dependent on the Middle East and could free its hands while addressing Islamic extremism.
Sassyz75 Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

kiwijonze Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)


Posted by Bride626

OK..I thought this article would be the 'smoking gun' that linked the entire Bush administration to mass murder and fraudulently going to war in Iraq and proving me wrong. But then, I read it. It doesn't even mention Iraq but instead talks of a Halliburton's accounting fraud case, wherein Cheney is not even named a defendant. These type of lawsuits are actually somewhat common.

Linking this civil action with a devious scheme to go to war is quite tenuous. It proves nothing about the war. This has been my point.... The people who routinely assign corrupt motives to Iraq, to terror threats, etc. never provide actual direct causal evidence. Just speculation, conjecture. Not enough, in my view, to change my mind.




I didn't specifically state that this article, or any article, directly proves that the Bush administration went to war strictly for monetary gain. And I don't necessarily personally believe that financial gain was the ONLY motivating factor. But it is yet another example of the good ol' boy network at work, and though clear connections between financial opportunity and war may not be found in print, I do not doubt that the Bush administration saw the financial benefits of pushing this war.

This article questions the credibility of Halliburton and Cheney. The fact that accounting fraud may have occurred within the company is not a direct connection to the war, but a warning of dubious financial practice within the company for the gain of those at the top, including Cheney. The Bush administration's insistance for war without UN support (or support from a significant portion of this country), gives reason to consider the relevancy of accounting practices in a company that is making a large chunk of change off Iraq and that has a direct connection to our Vice President.

Not a smoking gun, but something to consider, seeing as how, if done properly, the rebuilding of Iraq will bring dollars to Halliburton and Cheney for years . Political motivations are rarely black and white, therefore making it difficult to prove an administration of pushing a specific agenda. But to ignore these connections and fully believe that reasons for going to war were exclusive of the personal gain of those in the administration would be putting too much faith in the American goverment.
heidla Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Kerry is allowed to have opinions on 9/11. I am sure that most of us have thought about what we would have done. Yes, it is easier for him because it is in retrospect. I think it would be irresponsible of anyone running for President to not analyze 9/11. My opposition to Bush talking about 9/11 is that I feel he uses it as a tool to keep fear instilled in people. I would actually like to hear Bush's thoughts about if there is anything he would do differently.

As far as Iraq. Saddam is out of power and it is a good thing. I don't think that anyone can disagree with the fact that he is a horrible man. I just wonder why if Bush is so concerned about getting the 'Evil Doers' the United States has not gone in to help the people of Sudan. There are mass murders going on everyday in Sudan. Where is Bush? Where is the US help? Why are we refusing to help country that actually asked for our help and also has alleged ties to terrorists?

Now, for those that think that Kerry will be a puppet as President. What exactly do you think Bush is? I honestly don't think that Bush is the one making decisions . It is Cheney and his cronies. Bush is a puppet and I am ready for a change of cast.


I am as concerned as the next American about the war and trying to make America safer. I also am not basing my vote solely on these issues. What happens after the war? Where is our economy? What about healthcare for Americans and the Vets that will be coming home? While the immediate is of great concern the future should be also.

In closing, I would like to say that just because some of us are pro-Kerry that does not mean that we do not realize that politicians lie. I understand that fact. Please understand that Kerry is not my ideal candidate, but IMO he is a better choice then Bush. I have never (nor do I remember anyone else) referred to Kerry as GOD. He is a man with flaws just like Bush and just like all of us. Okay, I think I'm done.

Diane Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

I agree with you too.

HearzBellz Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

I don't think either candidate should use 9/11 for a campaign tool.... I personally think it is in poor taste - and X is right 20/20 vision is hindsight. As for the Gay Marriage issue, the danger is not whether or not Bush or Kerry believe in equal rights, although a valid concern. The issue is:
1- By making marriage a federally governed contract we are taking away states' rights. It is the system of states' rights that balances the power of the federal government, and is there for a very important purpose. The demographic of the states as a whole is not a perfect sample of the demographics of the US as a whole. Local societies have different values and responsibilities.

2 - Changing the Consitiution at this juncture for something so personal is endangering our individual lifestyle choices. If this amendment gets passed, what will happen to 'palamony' rights and 'domestic partner' rights that we have spent the better half of the last century fighting for and are finally getting? I personally believe that a constitutional change that restricts and defines any lifestyle sets a dangerous precedent that will not be limited to 'Gay marriage'.... it will only be the beginning.

3- The Constitution is written intentionally to be general, not specific so that constant change of the document is not necessary when the ideals of a society change.

JMHO
Betty Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)


Posted by shawl

I agree that preserving the security of the US and its citizens is a major - perhaps the major - issue in this election. I disagree that the Bush administration has been successful in achieving this goal; indeed, I think they have done more to endanger Americans (and I'm not just talking about soldiers) than to keep us safe.

Going into Afghanistan was the right thing to do, but since the start of the Iraq war in particular, support for operations in Afghanistan is not anywhere near the level it should be. The terrorists who attacked on September 11th and the madrassas training the next generation of terrorists are in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan, etc. They are not in Iraq - or, if they are, they were not there *before* the US attacked. I have seen no concrete evidence that convinces me that Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for September 11th.

My view, then, is that a necessary strategy to protect US citizens includes strengthening our forces dramatically in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Sudan. We also should be actively reforming the educational systems and other social services in these countries in order to provide alternatives for poor families who send their sons to madrassas for lack of better alternatives.

But instead, we have invaded Iraq. This policy, I believe, has made the US less secure, not more so. It has created additional resentment of 'US imperialism' in the Middle East and Arab world. It has squandered the goodwill offered to us in the wake of September 11th. Rather than leveraging that goodwill to show our best face to those who are being told that we are heartless, faithless and cruel, we have invaded another country without cause, violating a host of international laws, and, in many ways, terrorized its citizens. We have, in other words, shown them our worst face. Here in the US we have seen very little of the suffering endured by innocent Iraqi citizens. We supposedly went to Iraq in search of terrorists - insofar as we have found them, I would argue that they are of our own creation.

Let me also add that I find this policy to be the worst type of breach of contract with our military. Not only were they deceived, but the administration has behaved abominably with respect to its reluctance to discuss casualties (not allowing coffins to be shown on TV, etc) earlier in the conflict. To my knowledge, we don't yet have accurate numbers on wounded. The number of fatalities is already too high, but given the high quality of medical care that our troops receive, it is likely that thousands more have survived, but with severe and life-altering injuries.

I have given this question a great deal of thought, and I still don't understand the cause of war with Iraq. I don't buy the argument that the US went in to enforce UN resolutions; it seems to me a fig leaf, as this administration clearly has little or no regard for the UN. Based on early (pre-war) reports, I was also skeptical about whether Iraq had WMD. But even if Iraq did have WMD, they never had the delivery systems to attack the US. And if one were to make the argument that Iraq would sell or give WMD to terrorists, I would point out that countries like Pakistan and North Korea (which *definitely* have WMD) are much more dangerous in that regard. So, why Iraq? We may never know (or at least, not for the next 30 years or so, until the administration's records are declassified). But the salient point for me is that invading Iraq has made the US - citizens and soldiers - less secure, rather than more secure. And I firmly believe that neither Gore nor Kerry would have pursued this course; I think they would have been more likely to spend more resources in countries that truly give safe harbor to terrorists. I also think they would have been more likely to spend more resources on researching alternative fuel sources so that the US would no longer be as dependent on the Middle East and could free its hands while addressing Islamic extremism.






Very well said!!!!
myasmom Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

There are so many reasons why we invaded. Terrorism was a scapegoat to get to OIL, finish a personal family vendetta while ridding the world of a proven dangerous pest..the list has many parts.

The Us became less secure before the war..9/11 was proof for those who are lurking that the U.S who is seen/was seen as the super power can be penetrated. My personal belief is that the war is exhausting our troops and more is yet to come sicne there will be other countries who will test our 'power' and these will be formidable enemies, patient enemies who are watching this election just as closely as we are.

Power to Kerry. Power to Bush..shoot even share the power. just get our country back in order...cause more is yet to come.
sarahthegreat Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Power to Kerry. Power to Bush..shoot even share the power. just get our country back in order...cause more is yet to come.

totally agree!! i don't get why kerry blames Bush for 9/11 - isn't he a part of the same government that bush is? then he should have done something about it.
Moehick Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)


Posted by Bride626

One of the main reasons we went to war with Iraq was because Saddam was in violation of the cease-fire agreement that left him in power after the first Gulf War — and, following September 11, such defiance could no longer be tolerated. September 11 actually did alter many Americans' perceptions of tolerable risks. Moreover, we now know that Bush had learned of secret meetings between al Qaeda and Iraqi officials, that he'd learned of Saddam's attempts to acquire uranium from Niger, and that he'd been warned by Russian President Vladimir Putin that Saddam was planning terrorist strikes against the United States.



Bush met with the Taliban in March of 2001 in Washington. What could come from meeting and entertaining a known terrorist group in our nations capital???
Common Sense Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

TO THE FOLLOWING POST:

'This can't be a state issue (and shouldn't be an issue at all, IMO...everyone should be able to marry), because of comity (full faith and credit). A marriage recognized in one state has to be recognized in another, and if NY were to permit homosexuals to be married (and not just together in a civil union, which is not a concept that other states have), that marriage would have to be recognized in each and every state, even those that don't allow it. So instead, Bush just wants to make it unconstitutional so that no one, anywhere, can be in a homosexual marriage.'

Your explanation is WRONG. The Defense of Marriage Act...SIGNED BY OUR GREAT DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT WILLIAM JEFFERSON CLINTON allows states to overcome the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the Constitution. That is why a Civil Union in Vermont is NOT recognized in any other state. Whereas a heterosexual marriage in Vermont is RECOGNIZED in every state. I repeat, the last Democrat in the White House signed this law--a law that proved to be a devastating blow to gay marriage. And he signed on a Sunday morning at 2 a.m. after most papers had gone to press in 1996 so that he could point it out to his middle of the road Reagan Democrat constituents without pissing off his liberal backers. Why did he do it? Because the only thing the man believed in was ENHANCING HIS OWN POWER...by the way, pragmatism is not a terrible thing for a politcian.

Just don't believe Republican Bad, Democrat good. Sesame Street is not in Washington.
Common Sense Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

'Bush met with the Taliban in March of 2001 in Washington. What could come from meeting and entertaining a known terrorist group in our nations capital???'

PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE. I do not doubt that it is true, but you should not state this without support.
Moehick Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

There is videotape with him and a Taliban member in news archives and in Moores movie.

Common Sense Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)


Posted by Moehick

There is videotape with him and a Taliban member in news archives and in Moores movie.



OK? any more information? Sponsored by whom? Filmed by whom? Can I purchase this videotape? Is it 'Taliban Gone Wild Part 3' What was being discussed? Was he trying to reach out/bully the Taliban to see if they would handover their Al Qaeda terrorists? Was he partying with them?

Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the Taliban the governing body in Afghanistan? My God! Bush met with the government of Afghanistan?! That barbarian!
Moehick Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

All I am pointing out is the Taliban whether they are the governing body of Afghanistan or not is a terrorist organization. Maybe he was bullying them, I don't know, I wasn't invited to the meeting.

palebride Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

The only reason I dont' like Bush talking about 9/11 is because everytime I hear him talk, that seems to be all he talks about.

There are other things going on in thie country and in the world, and yet, becasue he did a good job following 9/11, ( and i do think he did a great job - even if i don't like him as a person or a president, i'm willing to admit his good moments) he seems stuck on bringin ghta tup.

It's like if I wrote a good paper in school in 7th grade, and then for the rest of my life, whenever anyone asked me about i was planning to do, i took out the paper.
(well, kind of like that...work with me - it's late)

But I agree, that if Kerry can talk about it, Bush should be able to as well. It's just that Bush has had a lot more time to talk about it, so it's starting to sound redundant sometimes.
palebride Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)


Posted by Moehick

All I am pointing out is the Taliban whether they are the governing body of Afghanistan or not is a terrorist organization. Maybe he was bullying them, I don't know, I wasn't invited to the meeting.



you're funny
Common Sense Posted:

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)


Posted by Moehick

All I am pointing out is the Taliban whether they are the governing body of Afghanistan or not is a terrorist organization. Maybe he was bullying them, I don't know, I wasn't invited to the meeting.



No Al Qaeda is a terrorist organization harbored by the Taliban--the governing body of Afghanistan at the time. My point is that Bush may have been meeting with the Taliban for reasons enhancing American security and it is not strange to find a president meeting with the government of another country. Is Moore implying Bush was plotting with the Taliban? Sounds a little nutty to me.

By the way, I love Westbury Manor. Isn't America the greatest country? We may disagree with each other but we agree on reception halls. 'God Bless America. land that I love...'

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