I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Original post by Xelindrya

Aug 05, 2004 09:26 PM

I REALLY don't get it.
Yeah yeah.. being a survivor of 9/11 and all that jazz you'd think I'd be angry about rubbing our faces in 9/11. That's not my point really.

Regardless of the issue I don't understand why the media seems to imply that the public doesnt want Bush to use 9/11 in any of his campaining but bring special attention to Kerry when he does as if he's telling us something new.

this CNN clip ticked me off
'Had I been reading to children and had my top aide whispered in my ear, 'America is under attack,' I would have told those kids very politely and nicely that the president of the United States had something that he needed to attend to -- and I would have attended to it,'

GIMME A BREAK
Dont tell me what you WOULD have done if you're president, tell me what you THINK you can do. Don't tell me you change laws, because you can't, our senate does that NOT you.

Don't use what you WOULD have done on 9/11 to justify yourself as 'better' than the currnet president. Hindsight's 20/20 and makes you look stupid to try to change it. I won't even drag out his flip flop on the war issue .. that's not important to me as much as saying that he THINKS he would have done better on 9/11. That ANNOYS me! The World was changed forever, crap that NO ONE could predict happens and now this guy who wants to be my president says 'well I would have...' GRRRRRRR backseat driver from hell!

If I had known a plane was gonna fly through my building maybe I would have .... (deleted I got too personal)

point is... this is BS and it ticks me off!

Just had to get that off my chest. I know I am in minority for not liking Kerry. I'd have preferred to other democrats (the general or edwards) going up against Bush. Kerry makes me think of Ken from Ken & Barbie, plastic smiles and easily positioned to make you think he's something you want. He's show me NOTHING that makes me think he's qualified to be president. And no I really don't give a flying Feck about this 3 purple hearts!

VENT!!!!

Xelindrya Posted: Aug 05, 2004 10:35 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Moehick

OK, so the rights of American people should take a backseat. If that was the case then why in the world was the biggest woman's movement during the Vietnam War? Maybe that should have taken a back seat too. Maybe we can start discriminating against everyone just because our troops are in Iraq.

That would make it a really nice country to come home to.

I don't think I said that.. I said let America vote on the issue of same-sex marriages.

What's wrong with that?

Xelindrya Posted: Aug 05, 2004 10:41 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by myasmom

Its amazing how many presidents actual live up to the promises they make BEFORE they get into office as compared to what actually happens. Bush included.

true.

Why don't people see that. Both make promises.. what Im shocked (honestly) is that Bush pushed his tax break through (and NO I don't believe the rich get richer because i've SEEN the numbers, they didn't) No one was going to be happy with that tax break but he pulled it through.

I just find it annoying that what Kerry can say about 9/11. He wasn't president then. I think the job that was done immediately following 9/11 by the president was a good one. I can't belive that Kerry would have done better (im not even gonna say he'd do worse either - and I think gore would have been worse)

The point of this thread was.. If Kerry can use 9/11 (and I dont think he should) then so should Bush. (although I think he shouldnt as it would do him no good)

Moehick Posted: Aug 05, 2004 10:43 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

I didn't qoute you as saying that, that was from someone elses post.

Xelindrya Posted: Aug 05, 2004 10:44 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Moehick

I didn't qoute you as saying that, that was from someone elses post.

oh sorry

(PS I'd love it to come to a vote btw)

myasmom Posted: Aug 05, 2004 10:55 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

I think that everything should be fair game to discuss. 9/11 is relevent in my opinion and if one talks about it so should the other..even if they were in office at the time.

X...it was from my post about the whole backseat comment.

I would love to see the Gay marraige/rights issue come to a head by voting. And I have some predictions of what the future holds no matter which way the cookie crumbles.

Sassyz75 Posted: Aug 05, 2004 10:58 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Xelindrya

Posted by Moehick
How can you back a president who doesn't believe everyone has rights??????

Because I read the article that quoted Bush as saying he wanted to have the American people vote as a whole on whether or not same sex marriages should be legal, not states individually.

And I agree, with that.

And in 1850 the majority of Americans were for slavery- and if you put it to the vote- I'm sure the majority of Americans would have voted to keep their slaves, not liberate them.. that doesn't make it right....

In the 1950s the majority of Americans were for segregation- and if you put that to the vote, I'ms ure the majority of Americans would have voted to keep Rosa Park at the back of the bus.

In the 1960s and the 1970s the majority of Americans weren't concerned with women's rights. And if you put that to the vote- and it was in the ERA- it failed.. and you know that we all know that wasn't right..

so just because Americans as a people believe in something it doesn't make it right or make it Constitutional...

I'm just glad as a nation we are flip floppers.. changing our mind about slavery, segregation and the roles of women in society- because that is how we have grown.. and if that means politicians changing their mind or learning from past mistakes- so be it.

Sassyz75 Posted: Aug 05, 2004 11:03 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Xelindrya

Posted by myasmom

Its amazing how many presidents actual live up to the promises they make BEFORE they get into office as compared to what actually happens. Bush included.

true.

Why don't people see that. Both make promises.. what Im shocked (honestly) is that Bush pushed his tax break through (and NO I don't believe the rich get richer because i've SEEN the numbers, they didn't) No one was going to be happy with that tax break but he pulled it through.

I would love to know what numbers you are looking at- because by all the numbers I have seen the rich are indeed getting richer .. not only via Bush's tax incentives, but via the decrease in $ going to services, which disproportionately affects the poor and middle classes- those more likely to use those services.

myasmom Posted: Aug 05, 2004 11:11 PM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

$$$$ runs this country. $$$ makes decisions. The 'Elite' statistically are the smallest precentage of Americans but they are the ones who make the decisions that ultimately affect all of us. And I agree about the decrease in $$ going into Health & human services programs...that $$$ is coming from somewhere and its not the rich.

Gosh I am feeling hopeless about the outcome of htis election.

prncssrachel Posted: Aug 06, 2004 06:32 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by myasmom
Gosh I am feeling hopeless about the outcome of htis election.

You could say THAT again and again. I maintain that our 'great system of democracy' is beginning to bite us in our own a$$es.

Moehick Posted: Aug 06, 2004 06:44 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Sassyz75

Posted by Xelindrya

Posted by Moehick
How can you back a president who doesn't believe everyone has rights??????

Because I read the article that quoted Bush as saying he wanted to have the American people vote as a whole on whether or not same sex marriages should be legal, not states individually.

And I agree, with that.

And in 1850 the majority of Americans were for slavery- and if you put it to the vote- I'm sure the majority of Americans would have voted to keep their slaves, not liberate them.. that doesn't make it right....

In the 1950s the majority of Americans were for segregation- and if you put that to the vote, I'ms ure the majority of Americans would have voted to keep Rosa Park at the back of the bus.

In the 1960s and the 1970s the majority of Americans weren't concerned with women's rights. And if you put that to the vote- and it was in the ERA- it failed.. and you know that we all know that wasn't right..

so just because Americans as a people believe in something it doesn't make it right or make it Constitutional...

I'm just glad as a nation we are flip floppers.. changing our mind about slavery, segregation and the roles of women in society- because that is how we have grown.. and if that means politicians changing their mind or learning from past mistakes- so be it.

That is exactly my point. At times like these we had strong presidents that took a stand to right injustices against people.

prncssrachel Posted: Aug 06, 2004 06:55 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Moehick

That is exactly my point. At times like these we had strong presidents that took a stand to right injustices against people.

Unfortunately, we have a president who does not feel that it's an injustice. THAT'S the problem.

myasmom Posted: Aug 06, 2004 07:44 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

And Kerry is not my opinion of strong either. Just by first impression/instinct he looks..Soft. And not to be funny but he reminds me of the character in the movie..The Manchurian Candidate..as if he could be a puppet on a string. He wants to do good but proabaly will buckle under pressure.

I was watching one some the uncensored political shows and they said he is the kind of president that if he does not have the support of the UN he probably would not act . At this time we dont need someone like that if its true.

Not saying we need Bush either. But these are who we have.

lilmrs Posted: Aug 06, 2004 09:22 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Xelindrya

Posted by Moehick
How can you back a president who doesn't believe everyone has rights??????

Because I read the article that quoted Bush as saying he wanted to have the American people vote as a whole on whether or not same sex marriages should be legal, not states individually.

And I agree, with that.

Last I looked my marriage certificate was from the state of New York and Not from the Federal Government. Why should this not be voted state to state?

jannshari Posted: Aug 06, 2004 09:27 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by DLWDLG

Last I looked my marriage certificate was from the state of New York and Not from the Federal Government. Why should this not be voted state to state?

This can't be a state issue (and shouldn't be an issue at all, IMO...everyone should be able to marry), because of comity (full faith and credit). A marriage recognized in one state has to be recognized in another, and if NY were to permit homosexuals to be married (and not just together in a civil union, which is not a concept that other states have), that marriage would have to be recognized in each and every state, even those that don't allow it. So instead, Bush just wants to make it unconstitutional so that no one, anywhere, can be in a homosexual marriage.

Kerry may be against it on a personal level, but he is not seeking to make a federal mandate against it for those who are in favor of it. It's about personal choice, and while he's not necessarily going out of his way to allow that choice, he's also not going to forbid it either. That's the difference.

ETA: NY does not have civil unions either. I was using NY as an example, so don't think I was saying something that isn't true.

cluelessbride Posted: Aug 06, 2004 09:49 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

For me, here's why I can't STAND BUSH using 9/11:

Because he used 9/11 to invade Iraq...

when Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11!!!!!

And if he finds Bin Laden in early November then the .01% benefit of the doubt I give Bush is out the window.

Bride626 Posted: Aug 06, 2004 10:17 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

One of the main reasons we went to war with Iraq was because Saddam was in violation of the cease-fire agreement that left him in power after the first Gulf War — and, following September 11, such defiance could no longer be tolerated. September 11 actually did alter many Americans' perceptions of tolerable risks. Moreover, we now know that Bush had learned of secret meetings between al Qaeda and Iraqi officials, that he'd learned of Saddam's attempts to acquire uranium from Niger, and that he'd been warned by Russian President Vladimir Putin that Saddam was planning terrorist strikes against the United States.

This doesn't mean that the war in Iraq has been perfectly executed...but that doesn't mean it was without basis or merely to help enrich corporate cronies or to follow up what his father started. The fact is...I am glad we went to war and captured Saddam. He was a mass murderer/rapist/criminal similar to Hitler and the world is better off with him out of power.

As far as capturing Bin Ladin, I don't care when it happens...I just hope it does!!

As far as the gay marriage thing, I have no problem with it and agreed with the ruling of the Massachusetts Supreme Court. However, it should be noted that both candidates oppose it....not just Bush.

Sassyz75 Posted: Aug 06, 2004 10:30 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Bride626

One of the main reasons we went to war with Iraq was because Saddam was in violation of the cease-fire agreement that left him in power after the first Gulf War — and, following September 11, such defiance could no longer be tolerated. September 11 actually did alter many Americans' perceptions of tolerable risks. Moreover, we now know that Bush had learned of secret meetings between al Qaeda and Iraqi officials, that he'd learned of Saddam's attempts to acquire uranium from Niger, and that he'd been warned by Russian President Vladimir Putin that Saddam was planning terrorist strikes against the United States.

This doesn't mean that the war in Iraq has been perfectly executed...but that doesn't mean it was without basis or merely to help enrich corporate cronies or to follow up what his father started. The fact is...I am glad we went to war and captured Saddam. He was a mass murderer/rapist/criminal similar to Hitler and the world is better off with him out of power.

As far as capturing Bin Ladin, I don't care when it happens...I just hope it does!!

As far as the gay marriage thing, I have no problem with it and agreed with the ruling of the Massachusetts Supreme Court. However, it should be noted that both candidates oppose it....not just Bush.

While Saddam was in fact violating the conditions of the Gulf War cease fire, I don't think it was up to the US to unilaterally go into Iraq and pull Saddam out as the case fire agreement wasn't solely written by the USA after the first Gulf War.

Secondly, while I do believe Bush thought he was doing a good thing in going into Iraq, I don't think the intellligence his decision was predicated upon was solid or even backed up (as is now coming out).

Thirdly, although the war wasn't started to put $ in his cronies pockets, a lot of mismanagement has gone on in Iraq. Between Halliburton, the Fleisher deal, and the continued misappropriation of UN Oil for Food monies, it isn't looking good for W. Those running the show in Iraq have missing or non existant records of money spent and it is starting to look like Iraq was in fact started to fatten corporate cronies pockets.

Maribelle7777 Posted: Aug 06, 2004 10:34 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

I don't see why you get so mad. Of course any Bush opponant is going to say 'If it was me I would have done it this way'. And so what? People do things differently. I do understand your point - after the fact it's easy to say 'I would do this' or 'this is what I would have done' but the question is why is Kerry stating these things? Because reporters are asking him. And no matter WHAT he says the media will twist it to fit their agenda.

FYI Cnn is very liberal so of course they'll slant things that way. And it's very well known that Fox News is ultra conservative and they slant reports and news to fit their view.

You (not you personally) can't rely on the media for what the candidates say in terms of soundbites because it's usually taken out of context.

Bride626 Posted: Aug 06, 2004 10:46 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

OK...to state that it 'is starting to look like Iraq was in fact started to fatten corporate cronies pockets' (without any hard evidence to support this) is quite an assumption. (Mind you, I have never stated that the war was not mismanaged to an extent.) To suppose a corporate greed motive to the Iraq war is to suppose that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, et. al., were willing, in effect, to commit mass murder in order to enrich themselves and their friends. Sorry, I can't accept this without concrete evidence. Unless actual FACTS arise to support such a scenario, this assumption is nothing more than an unsupported conspiracy theory.

Further, we did not go to war unilaterally and had the support of several other countries. With the collapse of the Soviet Empire, like it or not, we are the only remaining superpower-- a role which imposes a great deal of responsibility. While we would have loved to have unanimous support, the fact is that we should not need to ask permission to defend ourselves from psychotic dictators who would love to see this country- and everything it stands for- annihilated.

kiwijonze Posted: Aug 06, 2004 10:53 AM

Re: I may get blasted for this but, why is it not ok for Bush to bring up 9/11 but kerry can? (policital vent)

Posted by Bride626

OK...to state that it 'is starting to look like Iraq was in fact started to fatten corporate cronies pockets' (without any hard evidence to support this) is quite an assumption. (Mind you, I have never stated that the war was not mismanaged to an extent.) To suppose a corporate greed motive to the Iraq war is to suppose that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of State Colin Powell, National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, et. al., were willing, in effect, to commit mass murder in order to enrich themselves and their friends. Sorry, I can't accept this without concrete evidence. Unless actual FACTS arise to support such a scenario, this assumption is nothing more than an unsupported conspiracy theory.

Further, we did not go to war unilaterally and had the support of several other countries. With the collapse of the Soviet Empire, like it or not, we are the only remaining superpower-- a role which imposes a great deal of responsibility. While we would have loved to have unanimous support, the fact is that we should not need to ask permission to defend ourselves from psychotic dictators who would love to see this country- and everything it stands for- annihilated.

This doesn't lend much credibility to Cheney and company...
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/06/business/06halliburton.html?hp