Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

Honestly, I do see her point in general.

There are militant forces in the middle east, who hate Israel, and it's supporters. As long as we and other nations like England support Israel, we are all open to terrorist attacks.

If you look at history in general, most battles/wars stem from religious ideologies and everyone wanting their own space to practice them.

There is no one on earth who can judge or say who is right and who is wrong in the Palestian/Israelie conflict. They are a small nation surrounded by those that want them out, they do need our support.

I just feel our support should be unilateral, to promote peace in the middle east.

What I think we need to remember is that neither side is totally innocent or totally guilty.

The US has the power to push all sides to make the concessions needed to bring about a true and lasting peace. The thing is do we have the right people in place to do this.

That's just my two cents

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by CubanBride

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Posted by tray831

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Posted by elyssa222

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Posted by tray831

[If Bush would stop supporting Israel and stop the attacks overseas, then Bin Ladin would serioulsy back off from that. And you know what, my stomach is in knots, b/c Bush has no intentions of doing so.

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Why should Bush stop supporting Israel??

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Why? Because if we stopped supporting Israel, then 9/11 wouldnt have happened, AND we wont have to live in fear. Israel and the Arab countries have been enemies for a very long time, and b/c the US is on Israel's side, Bin Ladin is constantly creating these terrorist attacks. Bin Ladin hates the fact that we support Israel and will leave us alone once we do.......and that is the reason why Bush should stop supporting Israel....b/c I HATE living in FEAR!

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MUST KEEP ANGER UNDER CONTROL!

Are you friggin kidding me? Do you really believe that?!?!

Ok...every president since I can remember has supported Isreal. Clinton did? The 9/11 attacks had NOT A DAMN THING to do with the American support for Isreal! Should we not support Isreal and let all the jews be murdered by fanatical madmen just because they are jews?!?! And what would you be saying then?

Sorry, but I just hate it when people make up excuses for insanity. Osama Bin Laden is an evil madman that hates the us, not because we support Israel, but because we are infidels who are powerful enough to effect the lives of billions. (And no, I am not trying to brag or anything, just making a statement that I beleive is accurate.) He and his followers do not like our influence because our beliefs don't coincide with theirs.

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Do I beleive that? Sweetie-pie, Its a known fact!!!!!!! I wouldn't post anything unless I know its a fact. The US supporting Israel plays a HUGE factor in what is going on--what triggered this whole entire thing. Osama bin Ladin is a Mad man, yes he is, do I agree with his 'paybacks'--Not in the least.......but that doesnt take away the facts and reasons why he hates us so much and why he plans to terrorize this nation!

There are millions of innocent people that have been killed in the Arab countries, its better off the US mind their own business--but this will NEVER happen--!

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by tray831
Do I beleive that? Sweetie-pie, Its a known fact!!!!!!! I wouldn't post anything unless I know its a fact. The US supporting Israel plays a HUGE factor in what is going on--what triggered this whole entire thing. Osama bin Ladin is a Mad man, yes he is, do I agree with his 'paybacks'--Not in the least.......but that doesnt take away the facts and reasons why he hates us so much and why he plans to terrorize this nation!

There are millions of innocent people that have been killed in the Arab countries, its better off the US mind their own business--but this will NEVER happen--!

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9/11 had NOTHING to do with Israel. But let's just leave that alone because there will be no resolution to that argument, ok?

BTW-I like being called sweetie pie. LOL! I haven't heard that in a long time.

So do you think we should leave Israel to itself? Do you understand that would mean the end of Israel? Do you think the US, the only country trying to preserve the original Jewish nation, should allow them to be exterminated?

I am all for minding our own business, believe that. But when it comes to Israel, they are only trying to live their lives in their homeland. Hell, if we can fight to preserve the homeland of some buffalo, I think we can step it up a notch and protect some human beings.

But look at WW2. The US DID mind it's business and we wound up getting attacked anyway. Do you think that MOB is going to stop the attacks?

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by CubanBride

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Posted by tray831
Do I beleive that? Sweetie-pie, Its a known fact!!!!!!! I wouldn't post anything unless I know its a fact. The US supporting Israel plays a HUGE factor in what is going on--what triggered this whole entire thing. Osama bin Ladin is a Mad man, yes he is, do I agree with his 'paybacks'--Not in the least.......but that doesnt take away the facts and reasons why he hates us so much and why he plans to terrorize this nation!

There are millions of innocent people that have been killed in the Arab countries, its better off the US mind their own business--but this will NEVER happen--!

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9/11 had NOTHING to do with Israel. But let's just leave that alone because there will be no resolution to that argument, ok?

BTW-I like being called sweetie pie. LOL! I haven't heard that in a long time.

So do you think we should leave Israel to itself? Do you understand that would mean the end of Israel? Do you think the US, the only country trying to preserve the original Jewish nation, should allow them to be exterminated?

I am all for minding our own business, believe that. But when it comes to Israel, they are only trying to live their lives in their homeland. Hell, if we can fight to preserve the homeland of some buffalo, I think we can step it up a notch and protect some human beings.

But look at WW2. The US DID mind it's business and we wound up getting attacked anyway. Do you think that MOB is going to stop the attacks?

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No resolution to this argument: That I will agree with you, but thats all Im agreeing on with you (LOL)

Back to our convo/topic:
Do I think innocent people in the Arab countries should be murdered the way they are? NO Do I think innocent people in Israel deserve to be murdered in the same way? NO I do not. What I think is that the US needs to be some type of peacemaker, instead of killing, killing and killing. We are hated so much by this. It's almost a Domino effect. We kill Arabs, they come and kill us! Is it the only reason for 9/11--NO but it played a huge, huge factor. They tried it once in 80's at the World Trade Center which they somewhat failed, they gave us another ten years and tried again and succeeded. Was losing 3000 + people in our country worth that? ABSOLUTELY NOT! And this is why I feel extremely strongly about making peace---I dont know about you, but I literally lose sleep over it. It gets to me--I am afraid of chemical warfare, I am afraid of one second not being able to breathe b/c of some crap they are going to put in our air. And since they are obviously capable of doing anything, Yes, I'm afraid of our safety, our health.

It has to come to a stop sometime. If not now, when will it stop? Will it ever? As a US citizen, I dont think we should live like this, and we do......its absolutely horrible!

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by sept20yay

America can't stop supporting Israel. As a nation, if we do this, it would be terrible, diasterous. Looking at a map (as I learned in Jewish school), there are five huge countries that surround tiny tiny Israel and without America looking over on her from time to time, Israel would be attacked on all fronts and would be cannibalized. She would fall immediately to a palestinian nation. The Jews that live there would be displaced and no one wants to take them in. That is why the state was originally created, because of the holocaust. America was one of the countries that did not want to let Jews in anywhere. I'm sure that there are American interests there as well (oil, etc...) and this plays into why we support Israel. But Israel was America's solution to the holocaust!

To answer someone's question on why Jews tend to vote democrat, it has to do with the fact that republicans (like Bush) tend to include religion in American politics a lot (prayer in school and catholicism and protestant values and thoughts often come into play). I think Jewish voters want less government control and a personal choice, especially after the holocaust. My grandfather is an elderly holocaust survivor and fears government control after his days under German control. JMO.

I voted Bush this time around though for other reasons. Economically, my husband and I benefited greatly from Bush being in office. Both of our jobs sort of depended on it.

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Israel IS America's business. We can't look at the world in a bubble. What goes on in other countries IS our business. Lesson from WW2. Our job as a nation is to pick and choose whom we wish to support and which countries we need to focus in on and why. We have our ecomomic reasons as well to be interested in Israel. What about the displaced people in Israel if it fell?

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by eogara

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Posted by DjPiLL
I am curious as to how you come to this conclusion?

Everyone was bitcchin that Bush shouldn't have won in 2000 because he didn't win the popular vote.

He has 3.5 *MILLION* votes this year over Kerry. A clear decisive victory.... especially since there was a HUGE turnout of new registered voters as well as an increased African-American vote (almost double from last year) that favored Kerry bigtime.

In fact... if Kerry would have gotten an additional 200k votes in Ohio... and another 15k in New Mexico... he probably wins the election while being down about 2.5 million in the popular vote.

But I am sure if that would have been the case... all those people who were saying that our electoral college is 'flawed' would have thought otherwise.

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I agree. You can't have it both ways - talk about fair weather fans!! Ok, fine, electoral college is flawed. Put it to the popular vote and Bush still wins. What's the problem?

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Well, if we did have the popular vote Bush probably wouldn't even be in this race because his a** would have lost in 2000.

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

sorry but yes BUSH WON


<---------knows that not many HERE agree with me but I will sleep better tonight knowing my USMC baby boy has the same boss and I know that the news probably made its way to Iraq as quickly as we received it so I'm sure he is thrilled too!

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by lilqtny

sorry but yes BUSH WON


<---------knows that not many HERE agree with me but I will sleep better tonight knowing my USMC baby boy has the same boss and I know that the news probably made its way to Iraq as quickly as we received it so I'm sure he is thrilled too!

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AMEN!~!

I don;t think there should be a presidential election when we are in war anyways....why even offer someone else to finish what one started? There are more important things going on, like our brothers and sisters shedding their blood for their country, than having the ridiculously EXPENSIVE campaign fights....its alright to pay 10,000 a plate for DINNER, but those people would not donate that 10,000 to the military, so some husbands and wives can afford the rent or mortgage while their loved one is serving THIS COUNTRY.....

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by Moehick
Well, if we did have the popular vote Bush probably wouldn't even be in this race because his a** would have lost in 2000.

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You don't think he could have ran again? Prime example of this... Guiliani ran against Dinkins for mayor and LOST by a very slim margain the first time.

What did he do? He challenged him again and won. And look at the man he turned into since winning that first election.

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by holly231



AMEN!~!

I don;t think there should be a presidential election when we are in war anyways....why even offer someone else to finish what one started? There are more important things going on, like our brothers and sisters shedding their blood for their country, than having the ridiculously EXPENSIVE campaign fights....its alright to pay 10,000 a plate for DINNER, but those people would not donate that 10,000 to the military, so some husbands and wives can afford the rent or mortgage while their loved one is serving THIS COUNTRY.....

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thank you holly!

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by DjPiLL

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Posted by Moehick
Well, if we did have the popular vote Bush probably wouldn't even be in this race because his a** would have lost in 2000.

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You don't think he could have ran again? Prime example of this... Guiliani ran against Dinkins for mayor and LOST by a very slim margain the first time.

What did he do? He challenged him again and won. And look at the man he turned into since winning that first election.

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I agree!!! Not for nothing Dinkins was one of the worse Mayors New York ever had. JMAO

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by DjPiLL

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Posted by Moehick
Well, if we did have the popular vote Bush probably wouldn't even be in this race because his a** would have lost in 2000.

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You don't think he could have ran again? Prime example of this... Guiliani ran against Dinkins for mayor and LOST by a very slim margain the first time.

What did he do? He challenged him again and won. And look at the man he turned into since winning that first election.

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Did I say he couldn't have run again. I said probably which, the last time I checked doesn't mean No.

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

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Posted by Moehick
Did I say he couldn't have run again. I said probably which, the last time I checked doesn't mean No.

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And boy am I glad he did. Four more years!

Re: I think we have the same President for another 4 years.

Hey I am just referring too people trumpeting the fact that Bush won the popular vote. Thank God he finally did because two elections with him losing the popular vote would have been f*%*ed up!