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Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

Original post by Xelindrya

BUSH: Good morning.

Eight years ago, Congress passed, and President Clinton signed, the Defense of Marriage Act, which defined marriage for purposes of federal law as the legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife.

The act passed the House of Representatives by a vote of 342-67 and the Senate by a vote of 85-14.

Those congressional votes, and the passage of similar defense of marriage laws in 38 states, express an overwhelming consensus in our country for protecting the institution of marriage.

In recent months, however, some activist judges and local officials have made an aggressive attempt to redefine marriage. In Massachusetts, four judges on the highest court have indicated they will order the issuance of marriage licenses to applicants of the same gender in May of this year.

In San Francisco, city officials have issued thousands of marriage licenses to people of the same gender, contrary to the California Family Code. That code, which clearly defines marriage as the union of a man and a woman, was approved overwhelmingly by the voters of California.

A county in New Mexico has also issued marriage licenses to applicants of the same gender.

And unless action is taken, we can expect more arbitrary court decisions, more litigation, more defiance of the law by local officials, all of which adds to uncertainty.

After more than two centuries of American jurisprudence and millennia of human experience, a few judges and local authorities are presuming to change the most fundamental institution of civilization.

Their actions have created confusion on an issue that requires clarity. On a matter of such importance, the voice of the people must be heard. Activist courts have left the people with one recourse.

If we're to prevent the meaning of marriage from being changed forever, our nation must enact a constitutional amendment to protect marriage in America. Decisive and democratic action is needed because attempts to redefine marriage in a single state or city could have serious consequences throughout the country.

The Constitution says that 'full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts and records and judicial proceedings of every other state.'

Those who want to change the meaning of marriage will claim that this provision requires all states and cities to recognize same-sex marriages performed anywhere in America.

Congress attempted to address this problem in the Defense of Marriage Act by declaring that no state must accept another state's definition of marriage. My administration will vigorously defend this act of Congress.

Yet there is no assurance that the Defense of Marriage Act will not itself be struck down by activist courts. In that event, every state would be forced to recognize any relationship that judges in Boston or officials in San Francisco choose to call a marriage.

Furthermore, even if the Defense of Marriage Act is upheld, the law does not protect marriage within any state or city.

For all these reasons, the defense of marriage requires a constitutional amendment.

An amendment to the Constitution is never to be undertaken lightly. The amendment process has addressed many serious matters of national concern, and the preservation of marriage rises to this level of national importance.

The union of a man and woman is the most enduring human institution, honored and encouraged in all cultures and by every religious faith. Ages of experience have taught humanity that the commitment of a husband and wife to love and to serve one another promotes the welfare of children and the stability of society.

Marriage cannot be severed from its cultural, religious and natural roots without weakening the good influence of society.

Government, by recognizing and protecting marriage, serves the interests of all.

Today, I call upon the Congress to promptly pass and to send to the states for ratification an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of a man and woman as husband and wife.

The amendment should fully protect marriage, while leaving the state legislatures free to make their own choices in defining legal arrangements other than marriage.

America's a free society which limits the role of government in the lives of our citizens. This commitment of freedom, however, does not require the redefinition of one of our most basic social institutions.

Our government should respect every person and protect the institution of marriage. There is no contradiction between these responsibilities.

We should also conduct this difficult debate in a matter worthy of our country, without bitterness or anger.

In all that lies ahead, let us match strong convictions with kindness and good will and decency.

Thank you very much.
butterfly20 Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

im not saying they shouldnt be married....

and im not saying that insurance should hold up people getting married...

im just bringing up that one part of it.... i heard it being discussed on an AM radio station...

also.... heres another question
people are called men and women, its two words to distinguish us because we are not the samewe have differnt body parts....
using that logic wouldnt it make to call a same sex marraige a union, verses marraige, since they are not exactly the same?
Jordan Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

I dunno, I'm not marrying my FH for his different parts. I think it's patronizing to reduce marriage - or love, for that matter - to body parts.

butterfly20 Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

here are the stats from avert.org... someone asked about these..they are updated from the end of 2002, so they are only 1 year old

AIDS Statistics

At the end of the December 2002, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported approximately 384, 906 persons in the United States living with AIDS.

Of these,


46% were in whites,
34% in blacks,
18% in Hispanics,
<1% in Asians and Pacific Islanders,
and <1% in American Indians and Alaska Natives;
Of the 298,248 men (of 13 years or older) who were living with AIDS

57% were men who had sex with men (MSM),
23% were intravenous durg users (IDU)
10% were exposed through heterosexual contact
8% were both MSM and IDU
Of the 82,764 adult and adolescent women with AIDS,

61% were exposed through heterosexual contact
36% were exposed through intravenous drug use
3893 children were living with AIDS.

During the 1990s, the epidemic shifted steadily toward a growing proportion of AIDS cases in blacks and Hispanics and in women, and toward a decreasing proportion in MSM, although this group remains the largest single exposure group. Blacks and Hispanics, among whom AIDS rates have been markedly higher than among whites, have been disproportionately affected since the early years of the epidemic. In absolute numbers, blacks have outnumbered whites in new AIDS diagnoses and deaths since 1996, and in the number of people living with AIDS since 1998.


Jordan Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

> 57% were men who had sex with men (MSM) <

I can see how this can read as gay - and I'm sure a huge percentage of it does read that way. But it discounts prison statistics. That, I would like to see.
butterfly20 Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

i never thought of prison men
yabbobay Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.


Posted by butterfly20

so a man and a women have certain parts, they fit into each other, and a marraige can be see like the two of them coming together...

2 women dont fit into each other, yet they still have the ability to love and such....




i think this all depends on the parts you are talking about...

and if we bring up AIDS as a 'defense' - then what about lesbians? they are at the least risk of all groups...
------------------------------------------------------

lets not talk about GWB's words:

what troubles me is that in the 2000 campaign, Bush said this was a states right issue...I personally don't like how he ran on one platform and is doing the exact opposite...(also about not wanting to 'nation build' or go into wars without allies or NATO support or without reason )


also 3/4 of these 'activist judges' were appointed by republicans... hardly the activist type...

but isn't that the job of a judge? to interpret the laws? like the one that says citizens should have equal rights and that this issue is a state's rights issue?
Sassyz75 Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

Bush always goes back on what he says- that is what he does.. he has changed his mind for his reasons for the tax cuts and he has changed his mind for going into Iraq, so honestly, this reversal isn't so suprising.

Want I want to make clear- is this:

just because you are a Republican doesn't mean you have to agree with everything Republicans do.

just because you are a Democrat, doesn't mean you have to agree with everything Democrats do.

Similarly- just because a Democratic President agreed with something that a Republican President agrees with doesn't mean it is right or Constitutional.

Because Bush had to conjure the spirt of President Clinton in his speech this morning, it is evident that he is on VERY weak ground and realizes he is in pretty big political trouble in terms of his upcoming re-election. He thinks just because Clinton did something, it is right- which is pretty scary... because as far as I know, Clinton made plenty of mistakes too.

I don't think this country wants to be seen as intolerant, and that is exactly how we are going to be seen.

I think the same reasons behind NOT allowing same sex marriages are akin to those not allowing women the vote or African Americans to vote back in the day. They rest on assumptions and predjudices - and I thought as a society we have moved beyond that.

Xelindrya Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

I think it's a form of interpretation.. I still feel he is giving us the opportunity to make this choice.

I read on the other thread some great comments. Prehaps a definition is needed. Bigotry (sp) and incest could be defined as two consenting adults.

How could you define it? Should it be defined?

Im not against gays..
But it's become so PC to support Gays and their agendas.. You are either behind them 100% or a homophobic. I disagree with this. I think there is some areas that are just still too controversial to be pushed.

I think if the American people were given the chance to vote on it, then it would it be a honest way to decide it.

Just like the way I believe in my right and the right of women to make their own choices.. (Pro-choice) if given an oppurtunity to be voted on I believe it would be upheld.

JMHO
yabbobay Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.


Posted by Xelindrya

I think if the American people were given the chance to vote on it, then it would it be a honest way to decide it.




thats why we elect representatives...they are supposed to vote in your bes tinterest...the way the majority of their constituents would vote... now think about your representatives...
Xelindrya Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.


Posted by yabbobay
thats why we elect representatives...they are supposed to vote in your bes tinterest...the way the majority of their constituents would vote... now think about your representatives...



I did NOT vote for her!! heh.. so true though.
NIHA Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.


Posted by butterfly20

here are the stats from avert.org... someone asked about these..they are updated from the end of 2002, so they are only 1 year old

AIDS Statistics

At the end of the December 2002, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported approximately 384, 906 persons in the United States living with AIDS.

Of these,


46% were in whites,
34% in blacks,
18% in Hispanics,
<1% in Asians and Pacific Islanders,
and <1% in American Indians and Alaska Natives;
Of the 298,248 men (of 13 years or older) who were living with AIDS

57% were men who had sex with men (MSM),
23% were intravenous durg users (IDU)
10% were exposed through heterosexual contact
8% were both MSM and IDU
Of the 82,764 adult and adolescent women with AIDS,

61% were exposed through heterosexual contact
36% were exposed through intravenous drug use
3893 children were living with AIDS.

During the 1990s, the epidemic shifted steadily toward a growing proportion of AIDS cases in blacks and Hispanics and in women, and toward a decreasing proportion in MSM, although this group remains the largest single exposure group. Blacks and Hispanics, among whom AIDS rates have been markedly higher than among whites, have been disproportionately affected since the early years of the epidemic. In absolute numbers, blacks have outnumbered whites in new AIDS diagnoses and deaths since 1996, and in the number of people living with AIDS since 1998.





Remember, these are all statistics based on how someone reports how they think they were exposed to the disease. Based on my experience working in the field of HIV/AIDS, many people are not truthful of how they put themselves at risk when asked. It is tricky in situations where a woman may have been exposed by her male partner, who is having sex with another man. This male partner may not even identify as 'gay'. There's the people who have multipe risks, such as from both IDU and unprotected sex.

I personally don't feel that the rates of HIV would change based on a law allowing homosexuals to get married. If anything, the shame and stigma attached to being gay will decrease and so will the rates of unprotected sex, or sex with multiple partners. The spread of HIV can be attributed to lots of other things like lack of access to condoms (ie abstinence- based education supported by Bush), lack of services in particular communities, and general lack of education on how it is transmitted.

When it comes to insurance, gay-identified white men are often very well off financially, and have good jobs that offer health insurance, so I don't see how this would be a major problem?


I wonder if this is the exact wording...do we have a definition of husband and wife?


Then there's the whole issue of what is a 'man' and a 'woman'? I've worked with many people who are transgender and I've learned that gender is something that is self-identified. So, if the definition of marriage is '...man and woman' then I guess a couple with one person who is transgender can legally marry by this definition???

michele31 Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

I guess I have to put a personal touch to this disscussion. My sister is gay..and that is fine with all of us. She, I believe, has EVERY right to have what I have- a marriage, a home, a family. In fact I think if you look at the most people in our World, the overwhelming majority wants love....and a committed love often is part of a marriage.

Also, we all talk of the 'santity' of marriage. Lets remember that marriages were NOT created so a man and women could be in love and have a fancy party and live together happily. It was also not only created to procreate. Marriage was created so a women would be cared for since she could not own property or make decisions for themselves. Most marriages were arranged by a women's father and she has no choice who she would marry. There was also a financial arrangement made at that time. I THANK GOD that the 'santity' of marriage was not preserved. If it was many of us would not be marrying a man we love.
wacky Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

I think Bush needs to get some bush maybe it will make him feel better

Stacey1403 Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.


Posted by michele31

I guess I have to put a personal touch to this disscussion. My sister is gay..and that is fine with all of us. She, I believe, has EVERY right to have what I have- a marriage, a home, a family. In fact I think if you look at the most people in our World, the overwhelming majority wants love....and a committed love often is part of a marriage.

Also, we all talk of the 'santity' of marriage. Lets remember that marriages were NOT created so a man and women could be in love and have a fancy party and live together happily. It was also not only created to procreate. Marriage was created so a women would be cared for since she could not own property or make decisions for themselves. Most marriages were arranged by a women's father and she has no choice who she would marry. There was also a financial arrangement made at that time. I THANK GOD that the 'santity' of marriage was not preserved. If it was many of us would not be marrying a man we love.




Once again Michele I totally agree. My SIL is also gay and has been in a loving comitted relationship for over 14 years. They own a home and have children together. If this is not a marriage then I don't know what is.


Wacky you crack me
HappyEverAfter Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

I cannot believe Bush is now hiding behind Clinton, as in 'he started it so its not just me w. my crazy right wing agenda'. I thought Republicans were supposed to be for smaller government. Why is our government so obsessed with same sex marriage??

Why are we not focusing on the recent report that our government had initial reports of Al Queda and the 9/11 attack over 2 years before and did nothing?
That our current president went to war over phantom 'weapons of mass destruction' that our own troops have been unable to find? That Bush went against the UN on a white horse battle into Iraq, losing us international support and causing our own troops to be killed in 'peacekeeping' missions?
That our VP went on hunting trips and dinners w. representatives investigating charges against his company?

It amazes me that in 2 days we can have a congressional hearing on Janet Jackson/Viacom percieved indecency, but no one can get their sh*t together to take a long hard look at our own government. Bush is trying to deflect by focusing on same sex marriage, an obvious hot button target that will divide the country.
Shamee Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

Happy:

If you are trying to point to the fact that we had two years notice before 9/11, Bush wasn't in office at that point. So where are you going with that idea? The first trade center attack occurred while Clinton was in office and instead of worrying about homeland security, he was busy playing with his humidor. There was other attacks on Americans outside of the trade center during his presidency- let's not forget the U.S.S. Cole or the embassies over in Africa. NOTHING was done to prevent those tragic incidences. NOTHING was done after the fact either, EVEN though we knew Bin Laden was behind them.

Personally I'd rather have a leader with a strong military agenda than someone whose only heat is in his pants.

As for future elections, I hope to God that we never elect into office a 9/10 leader in a 9/11 world.

Xelindrya Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.


Posted by Shamee

Happy:

If you are trying to point to the fact that we had two years notice before 9/11, Bush wasn't in office at that point. So where are you going with that idea? The first trade center attack occurred while Clinton was in office and instead of worrying about homeland security, he was busy playing with his humidor. There was other attacks on Americans outside of the trade center during his presidency- let's not forget the U.S.S. Cole or the embassies over in Africa. NOTHING was done to prevent those tragic incidences. NOTHING was done after the fact either, EVEN though we knew Bin Laden was behind them.

Personally I'd rather have a leader with a strong military agenda than someone whose only heat is in his pants.

As for future elections, I hope to God that we never elect into office a 9/10 leader in a 9/11 world.





Amen

My family has alot of Squids (Sailors) that USS Cole sitituation is still VERY much not forgotten for us! Since when did American Sailors become expendable so much that our president doesnt even TRY to act like he CARES what happened. Probably busing getting head instead.

HappyEverAfter Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

Hey, I am all for whoever is in the Presidents chair to get their head out of their as*. Just b/c I am a democrat does not mean I dont fault Clinton for responsibility on what happened on 9/11. He had some intelligence, his office did not act as it should have, obviously. Bush has acknowleged that he knew about this as well, and also did nothing (or not enough). So you do have the 9/10 president and congress in a post-9/11 world.

And I dont think Bush is really acting as though he cares about our troops now. If he did, he would go to the UN and ask for UN forces to take over the peacekeeping mission in Iraq. American troops die over there every day, and nothing is done.
Xelindrya Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

I'll burn for this one i'm sure.....

I feel our troops are needed in Iraq. As a responsible nation, we started this we have a obligation to be there for peace. You can't exactly pass off a trouble country to the next guy once you've done the work. You're responsible for the clean up and peacekeeping efforts. It's not tag team wrestling where you can just walk way and let others take over. That nation still has plenty who hate us and want Saddam's horror to continue. They would love to see a changing of the guard. It's a perfect oppurtunity to strike as well as a perfect way to say that 'Look the US comes here, kills people, destroys the area and walks away' We just can't do that, in my opinion.

Men and women die DAILY over there. I respect them all and honor those who have fallen as heros. They help while they're there and do the best to keep the peace. I believe in that. I believe in what they're doing and I believe we belong there. Not forever, but we owe them. It's dangerous out there and it's not like a board game where you win and other side just steps aside to let you clean up. People of any nation aren't usually accustomed to change and we (the US) made huge changes by getting rid of that tyrant. The people of that nation are dazed and confused, happy and rejoiceful, angry and venegeful. It's like a mine field of danger and friendlies. Our men and women do what they can and what I know I can't. Try to keep peace in a country so completely tipsy turby that any wind blowing in the wrong direction may cause complete destruction.

JMHO
(allow the burning to begin)
heh
Shamee Posted:

Re: Im probably going to regret doing this: But here are Bush's words exactly as said.

The UN has showed zero support of the US's military presence in Iraq, maybe he has given up hope of any kind of reprieve from that quarter?

Funny how all the countries who wouldn't back or support the US (including the UN) during the actual 'war', yet when the subject of contracts and such came up (post 'war'), everyone came clamoring for a piece of the action. Germany, Canada, France...

Like Snoop Doggy Dog once said:

'They've all got their cup but they ain't chipped in'.

X - again, I'm with you girl. This country wouldn't exist in it's current standing if it were not for brave men and women fighting for the cause. If a few of many didn't stand up and say 'Hey, we're not taking your B.S. anymore!', where would the US be? A piece of France over here, a part of England over there? Read your history books ladies. There have been men, women and children dying everyday since the beginning of time to defend the rights of land and home. Everyone wants to bash the US's military presence and 'interference' within other countries, yet what would have happend to the rest of Europe if the US didn't get in there and kick Hitler's a$$, etc. during WWII? What about our involvement in Chechneya, etc. where genocide of men, women and children, the rape of young girls was a daily occurance? That wasn't forty some odd years ago or further, that was in the 1990's. I'm glad Saddam is gone and I'm proud of Bush for taking him down. Who cares what his agenda was concerning the war? That's one more major player in the intricate web of international terrorists that's out of the picture. At least I know Bin Loser is not getting anymore Iraqi funding (or at least substantial funding from his buddy Saddam).

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