LIWeddings.com
Post New Topic

LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Original post by Taunita

I recently received an FM from --- (I refuse to post bc heaven forbid I get another fm) and the intent of this is not to reflect negatively on someone merely performing their job and I’m sure it was sent if only to cover all bases and as an FYI (perhaps it was a uniform blanket sent to all those who posted)…?? Anywaze this was in regards to advice for me not to “warn” other brides about a particular limo company in question – supposedly in my best interest and to protect me. I hope y’all know what limo company I’m referring too…

First and foremost – I Luv this website and I think client services are beyond awesome and do an amazing job!!!!!!!!

With that being said - I understand that that may have to protect vendors but what about us?

I did post a response on that thread –two posts to be exact – 1) I stated that I would be sure to steer clear thanking her for her honest review and that she should report them to the better business bureau. 2) She asked for help spreading the word so I recommended she post her review on yelp and the yellow pages and that I was horrified by what she experienced and she should take them to court. (Never mentioned the name of the company) & 3) (Separate thread) A bride was inquiring about a unique car idea and I told her to do research before booking due to prior negative reviews (someone else referenced the company earlier in the thread). (I didn’t mention the name and advised her to research before booking which would call upon her own judgment) and we tell brides to research different photography options everyday so what’s the big deal on this particular company- why should they get special treatment!???… What exactly was I being warned about and protection from what? Because in my opinion – that was an opinion – not even negatively reviewing them except for the fact that I mentioned they had negative reviews (no further details included) on these other sites (which is fact): surprise surprise.

I also sent an fm to a total of three brides who solicited information on another post regarding the aforementioned so I provided them with just the name of the company (and that’s it). But never publicly displayed in any way shape or form unless the content of my fm is assumed– so unless the “right to change policy” (privacy policy page) has been exercised – I don’t see how this was harmful as it was an internal communication, which supposedly is not displayed to vendors.

I felt threatened by this message, even though it was “in my best interest” because it made me apprehensive in regards to stating my opinions and made me feel as though they were in fact looking out for the vendors best interest and that I was simply being warned; actually told to “refrain” from replying in this thread with a thanks for my support and understanding. I understand it may have something to do with compliance but I do not support this stance.

So with that being said I don’t see how I did anything wrong – I thought this was about brides helping brides???

I don't think we should pay the ultimate price for vendors who suc*k and there should be a better screening process for the vendors they choose (or higher standards) to advertise or some sort of contract review and renewal process... their are plenty of viable and honest vendors on waiting list for this site (because vendors I met with have mentioned this before) and someone else should be given the chance to prevail where others have failed! & That’s my three cents! I understand there are often mixed reviews with certain vendors (all subject to oPiNiOn) but they shouldn’t be protected by only good reviews… In my opinion I think this aids a false representation of the company.

Oh and as far as best interest:

These posts are specifically in an area designated for opinion anything other than that is speculation by the vendor. “Long Island Brides helping Long Island Brides!
Come and post your Long Island Wedding concerns, solutions, dilemmas or just blow off some steam. Receive some advice or just hear what other Long Island brides and grooms have to say” That’s the intro before any one logs into BHB. Word for word. Soooooo… what up?

Just because they pay$ doesn’t mean we should pay the ultimate price of tears on our wedding day and after-all -opinions are simply what we have to say based on our personal judgment- brides should be able to make well informed choices through research, review and recommendations, which I’m sure we all do… posts like these merely contribute to decision making but by no means enforces a choice. We make final conclusions and one good opinion may weigh just the same as a negative depiction therefore who’s to say we wont judge for ourselves?

Furthermore, there's a clear difference between libel/slander and opinion. Stating your opinion is a protected constitutional right. It’s not a smear campaign.

I never had an experience with this company and mereley sympathized with the bride as I am sure all of you can understand… I never posted anything against this company nor did I mention them and responded to the inquiry on a post via fm… If my best interest are in fact affected by this – I should sue over freedom of speech – there was no defamation, slander, or offense. I mean Im surprized mcdonalds is still selling burgers god forbid someone sues over a heart attack? Sh*t B*tch next thing you know I’m going to go ape sh*t on someone for breathing on me and take them to court for getting a cold.

…Because after all isn’t that what my “protected interest” boils down too or am I subject to the same crime of assumption and speculation?

Sorry for the rant (actually I’m really not)– and mind you I have not yet had the need to post a thread until today (other than botw week and because y’all are ever so helpful and usually a search does the trick) but I was outraged by this.

I personally think this is a Double standard on an honest opinion – Yay for good nay for bad – what is up with that…

I hope I still get a t-shirt with my 1000th post but I’ve always stood up for what I believe in and my opinion is simply that. My opinion! & No one can take that away.
alli3131 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by Taunita

Posted by JLWSJC

So for someone else to prepetuate what the OP said without knowing for a fact it was true opens people up to liability. There's no guarantee it WASN'T misinformation.


That's one of my main points - No where did I ever further her opinion because I personally didn't encounter this company. In other words, I didn't perpetuate her stance or negative review so to speak - I sympathized with a bride and I personally was horrified by her experience. Thats my judgement call. Other inquiry was in reference to the limo company in question - because the post had been edited to omit the name. No negative slander - mainly the subject of who was being discussed. Simply an fm containing the name they asked about. That's why I feel as if they are protecting the vendor warning me to 'refrain from posting'
...and yes I completley get that they have to cover their a*sses so that comes with the territory but weres the defense for the bride- maybe the site doesn't owe that to us but at the very least if her experience was based on fact (pictures pending) let her speak the truth - plenty of others followed up with their opinions further supporting the stance, I was horrified by her opinion but the surplus of negative experiences other brides had is in
actually what turned me completley off.

-Again, just responding. No harm meant and no offense taken.


No you may not have added to the original brides opinion on this vendor but you added to it by passing the information on.....and clearly actively passed it on if people were FM'ing you fot the vendors name. I think CS handled this in an appropriate way. Like I said before the you should have taken the info and decided whether or not to do business with the vendor but it is not your place to then tell the world not to use them cause some random bride had a bad experience.....that is where you will get into legal trouble.
Taunita Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by JessNicole7EM

Posted by alli3131

To the OP I think the problem comes in where you are telling people to research this company because its bad but you have zero personal experience with them.

You are spreading the bad experience even though you do not know the person it happened to personally.....thats where this is a problem.

And yes you can get in legal problems from posting on a public forum. So I would be careful and YES I am an attorney so you dont even have to ask.

My advice is when someone post a bad experience thank them for the information and use it for your own use.....do not pass it on because you have no clue if that information is accurate.




Telling some one to research in order to make an informed decision is not spreading the bad experience. I actually said the specific car they provided was a unique idea in the very same post and said to research because there were some bad reviews posted (which is fact- unless they were pulled) I provided no details regarding the reviews themselves & I was not focusing on the one review. I wasn't passing anything on except my actual opinion that being, that I had seen negative reviews and that was in fact my experience hence why I reccomended the research nothing else bad was stated about the company. We tell brides on here to research flowers, photography, etc. everyday and ask about eachothers experiences. & no i wasn't going to ask if you were an attorney because I already consulted my own.

-again just responding. Things can be so easily misinterpretted and drama bs so I feel i have to write that
Taunita Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by alli3131

No you may not have added to the original brides opinion on this vendor but you added to it by passing the information on.....and clearly actively passed it on if people were FM'ing you fot the vendors name.


Okay so to be clear - brides posted a thread asking other brides 'who was that limo company' (something to that note) That is a question regarding the topic that had been discussed via the famous thread. To which they received an answer nothing more stating anything further other than the name. No one sent me a personal fm - except for just recently - hmmm thanks for the warning hahah that one I might refrain from.
wiggleit28 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Taunita,

I'm with you. I was just reading through the rules of this forum, which state:

'You may use these areas only to send and receive messages and materials that are appropriate to that area. By way of example you agree that when using this area you will not:
Defame, abuse, harass, stalk, threaten or otherwise violate the legal rights of others.
Publish, post, upload, distribute or disseminate any inappropriate, profane, defamatory, infringing, obscene, indecent or unlawful topic, name, material or information. '

I don't see how anything you were saying was defamatory. If anything, the post of the original reviewer of the limo company was defamatory (even though she should be free to post it in a public forum). I get that LIW is a business but that 'warning' would have bothered me as well.






adelya21 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

I beieve you arent emphasizing the entire truth. I am by no means an attorney but am a law student. I have studied this area of law so I know a bit about it. IMO --NONE of Tauny's comments are actionable..meaning that she cannot be sued. To besued for your opinions they must be asserted facts dressed up as opinions. So for example if I said --> In my opinion X limo comment is deceitful and will steal your money--they CAN sue me for libel. None of what Tauny said in any of her posts were things that were hurting the company-- she NEVER said the company was bad-- she merely suggested --go do research which any person could say about any company. last time i checked u can share other peoples opinions about companies by giving them an example or story about what happened. Yet Tauny didnt even do that

To be sued for your opens courts look at the following : Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. (A verifiable fact is one capable of being proven true or false.) ---- *******A statement of verifiable fact is a statement that conveys a provably false factual assertion, such as someone has committed murder or has cheated on his spouse.

http://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

1) I stated that I would be sure to steer clear thanking her for her honest review and that she should report them to the better business bureau.
---> This is by no means 'a variable fact' that a company can sue for. I can tell ANYONE i want to go report someone to BBB.

2) She asked for help spreading the word so I recommended she post her review on yelp and the yellow pages and that I was horrified by what she experienced and she should take them to court. (Never mentioned the name of the company)
----again you are allowed to tell someone to go post THEIR STORY about their experience on a site like yelp. if not then how come we have sites like expedia and orbitz where people write exactly like we do here about THEIR experiences on trips and how horrible they were.

3) (Separate thread) A bride was inquiring about a unique car idea and I told her to do research before booking due to prior negative reviews (someone else referenced the company earlier in the thread).
--addressing that there have been negative reviews isnt something anyone can get sued on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and another FIA: PLEASE read the following question posed on the site i cited earlier:

'What if I republish another person's statement? (i.e. someone comments on your posts)

Generally, anyone who repeats someone else's statements is just as responsible for their DEFAMATORY content as the original speaker—if they knew, or had reason to know, of the defamation. Recognizing the difficulty this would pose in the online world, Congress enacted Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which provides a strong protection against liability for Internet 'intermediaries' who provide or republish speech by others'


How do courts look at the context of a statement?

For a blog, a court would likely start with the general tenor, setting, and format of the blog, as well as the context of the links through which the user accessed the particular entry. Next the court would look at the specific context and content of the blog entry, analyzing the extent of figurative or hyperbolic language used and the reasonable expectations of the blog's audience.


LIW's response to this is purely nothing but their trying to

A. cover the behind of the company who pays them

B. Covering their own behind. If they are truly fearful of this, they really should get a true Defamation Attorney who knows this area inside out because they make their own claims and pretend they know anything about Defamation




Posted by alli3131

To the OP I think the problem comes in where you are telling people to research this company because its bad but you have zero personal experience with them.

You are spreading the bad experience even though you do not know the person it happened to personally.....thats where this is a problem.

And yes you can get in legal problems from posting on a public forum. So I would be careful and YES I am an attorney so you dont even have to ask.

My advice is when someone post a bad experience thank them for the information and use it for your own use.....do not pass it on because you have no clue if that information is accurate.
JessNicole7EM Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Well this looks like it's going to get out of hand pretty soon.

wiggleit28 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by adelya21

I beieve you arent emphasizing the entire truth. I am by no means an attorney but am a law student. I have studied this area of law so I know a bit about it. IMO --NONE of Tauny's comments are actionable..meaning that she cannot be sued. To besued for your opinions they must be asserted facts dressed up as opinions. So for example if I said --> In my opinion X limo comment is deceitful and will steal your money--they CAN sue me for libel. None of what Tauny said in any of her posts were things that were hurting the company-- she NEVER said the company was bad-- she merely suggested --go do research which any person could say about any company. last time i checked u can share other peoples opinions about companies by giving them an example or story about what happened. Yet Tauny didnt even do that

To be sued for your opens courts look at the following : Courts look at whether a reasonable reader or listener could understand the statement as asserting a statement of verifiable fact. (A verifiable fact is one capable of being proven true or false.) ---- *******A statement of verifiable fact is a statement that conveys a provably false factual assertion, such as someone has committed murder or has cheated on his spouse.

http://www.eff.org/issues/bloggers/legal/liability/defamation

1) I stated that I would be sure to steer clear thanking her for her honest review and that she should report them to the better business bureau.
---> This is by no means 'a variable fact' that a company can sue for. I can tell ANYONE i want to go report someone to BBB.

2) She asked for help spreading the word so I recommended she post her review on yelp and the yellow pages and that I was horrified by what she experienced and she should take them to court. (Never mentioned the name of the company)
----again you are allowed to tell someone to go post THEIR STORY about their experience on a site like yelp. if not then how come we have sites like expedia and orbitz where people write exactly like we do here about THEIR experiences on trips and how horrible they were.

3) (Separate thread) A bride was inquiring about a unique car idea and I told her to do research before booking due to prior negative reviews (someone else referenced the company earlier in the thread).
--addressing that there have been negative reviews isnt something anyone can get sued on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and another FIA: PLEASE read the following question posed on the site i cited earlier:

'What if I republish another person's statement? (i.e. someone comments on your posts)

Generally, anyone who repeats someone else's statements is just as responsible for their DEFAMATORY content as the original speaker—if they knew, or had reason to know, of the defamation. Recognizing the difficulty this would pose in the online world, Congress enacted Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, which provides a strong protection against liability for Internet 'intermediaries' who provide or republish speech by others'


How do courts look at the context of a statement?

For a blog, a court would likely start with the general tenor, setting, and format of the blog, as well as the context of the links through which the user accessed the particular entry. Next the court would look at the specific context and content of the blog entry, analyzing the extent of figurative or hyperbolic language used and the reasonable expectations of the blog's audience.


LIW's response to this is purely nothing but their trying to

A. cover the behind of the company who pays them

B. Covering their own behind. If they are truly fearful of this, they really should get a true Defamation Attorney who knows this area inside out because they make their own claims and pretend they know anything about Defamation




Posted by alli3131

To the OP I think the problem comes in where you are telling people to research this company because its bad but you have zero personal experience with them.

You are spreading the bad experience even though you do not know the person it happened to personally.....thats where this is a problem.

And yes you can get in legal problems from posting on a public forum. So I would be careful and YES I am an attorney so you dont even have to ask.

My advice is when someone post a bad experience thank them for the information and use it for your own use.....do not pass it on because you have no clue if that information is accurate.



mybabylovesmoi Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

adeyla - I agree with everything you said and love that you took the time to write all that out and make it easy to follow.

I'm sorry, if I am paying for a service and I get screwed, I will speak about it. The flip side is if I have a FABULOUS experience, everybody will hear about that too.

Why shouldn't bad business owners (who've already taken someone's money) face consequences and good business owners reap rewards?

If a vendor consistently gets bad reviews, their first priority should be to fix the problem, not sue people to keep their mouths shut.

just my 2 cents.
alli3131 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by JessNicole7EM

Well this looks like it's going to get out of hand pretty soon.


It might but all I can say if that if you want to be able to post on this board til some of your weddings in 2011...If CS sends you an email and that says watch what you say I would cause they have every right to deactivate you account for issues. And perpetuating bad reviews of site vendors will be one of the reasons.

So I have been saying all along. Read the bad reviews and use them for your own decisions. DOnt pass them on cause truly it is none of your business. Im sure for every bad review there are tons of great ones.....I've had my own bad experiences with vendors and others have had amazing experiences with the same one.

So take every review with a grain of salt cause many people out there will flip on a vendor cause and i was not dotted.

So if this causes drama then bring on the but its just the truth.....you have to play by CS rules here and if you don't like the censorship they do then you don't have to post here.
JLWSJC Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~


So if this causes drama then bring on the but its just the truth.....you have to play by CS rules here and if you don't like the censorship they do then you don't have to post here.


Exactly. I don't think anyone was trying to say she DEFINITELY DEFAMED anyone, just that CS is watching out. Is it for their business interests? Yes, but they have to do that to maintain the site and their livelihood. Things can snowball online and easily be misinterpreted and CS is trying to avoid that and I personally think that's smart, even if it means sometimes less than ideally phrased posts get edited or deleted. This is their world, we just live in it.
JLWSJC Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

And finally, for everyone who keeps saying we should be allowed to state our opinions... we are allowed to do so. Just in a certain context. And, if you notice, there are plenty of vendors on The Brides Review who get bad grades and poor reviews and those posts don't get touched because of the way they are written and phrased. It's all about semantics and language and it's irritating sometimes, I agree, but it is the way it is.

JessNicole7EM Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~




you have to play by CS rules here and if you don't like the censorship they do then you don't have to post here.



wiggleit28 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~






you have to play by CS rules here and if you don't like the censorship they do then you don't have to post here.


I don't think anyone wants to or will stop posting on this site because of CS's censorship. We all vent about all kinds of stuff on this forum--Taunita has the right to vent about something that bothered her about CS. That's all she did.
adelya21 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

'If CS sends you an email and that says watch what you say I would cause they have every right to deactivate you account for issues. '

Im confused so are you saying that if im a user on here (not someone who has one post on here just to bad mouth a company) that I can actually get kicked off this site rightfully???? im sorry but last time I checked im on this site to get everyone's reveiws about bad and good companies and NOT JUST THE GOOD.

If I see one bad review I couldnt care i would still do my own research butttt if a company like this limo company has gotten many bad reviews why should anyone get kicked off by saying go do research on them because they have gotten some bad reviews. Then basically I should have been sued for slander and libel so many times because I have told people that because I have told people verbally and via writing about how horrible my experiences have been with certain hotels or companies (not on this site)..


I agree that noone should irresponsibly post -- non experiences --but rather just write dont use X florist because they are deceitful.... but we are allowed to write our negative opinions about vendors.. I mean this is what this site is all about. tell us the good and the bad!!!!!!!!! Like my above post indicates, courts will look at the

'setting, and format of the blog, as well as the context of the links through which the user accessed the particular entry. Next the court would look at the specific context and content of the blog entry'

Posted by alli3131

Posted by JessNicole7EM

Well this looks like it's going to get out of hand pretty soon.


It might but all I can say if that if you want to be able to post on this board til some of your weddings in 2011...If CS sends you an email and that says watch what you say I would cause they have every right to deactivate you account for issues. And perpetuating bad reviews of site vendors will be one of the reasons.

So I have been saying all along. Read the bad reviews and use them for your own decisions. DOnt pass them on cause truly it is none of your business. Im sure for every bad review there are tons of great ones.....I've had my own bad experiences with vendors and others have had amazing experiences with the same one.

So take every review with a grain of salt cause many people out there will flip on a vendor cause and i was not dotted.

So if this causes drama then bring on the but its just the truth.....you have to play by CS rules here and if you don't like the censorship they do then you don't have to post here.
FutureMrsPanuch Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by JessNicole7EM

Well this looks like it's going to get out of hand pretty soon.


i think it might have already...

Taunita Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by JessNicole7EM




you have to play by CS rules here and if you don't like the censorship they do then you don't have to post here.





A sI stated in my OP I luv LIW and I think CS for the most part is awesome. I understand if they censor words like s*ucks or B*urtons for whatever reason. I have never complained about that (if we're getting into censorship) and my posts were never pulled. My qualm was that I FELT they were protecting the vendor and had no reason to warn me; I did nothing in my three (3) posts to spread bad experiences or reviews. Read my answers posted earlier to gain further clarification regarding my personal 'experience' if you wish.
JessNicole7EM Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by FutureMrsPanuch

Posted by JessNicole7EM

Well this looks like it's going to get out of hand pretty soon.


i think it might have already...



yeah i think so.
alli3131 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

Posted by adelya21



Im confused so are you saying that if im a user on here (not someone who has one post on here just to bad mouth a company) that I can actually get kicked off this site rightfully???? im sorry but last time I checked im on this site to get everyone's reveiws about bad and good companies and NOT JUST THE GOOD.




It's CS site they can deactivate you account for just about any reason they see fit. SO yes if they think you are spreading bad reviews that you have no personal knowledge of they can give you the boot.

This topic has been debated for as long as I have been here and it really comes down to wording on most issues. And if it is a personal experience worded the right way there will be no issues.

So I still say you don't like the rules then don't play!!! They are the rules and they won't be changing anytime soon.....I'm sure CS has had their attorneys advise them, quite extensively on this and if they thought the OP was doing something against the 'rules' then they probably were.....even though they might not have realized what they were doing was wrong.
adelya21 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

oh no i agree with you that they CAN deactive but as i said in my post can they rightly do that? in my opinion no. Meaning should they do that for something like that? IMO No!

Also, as a response to your comment--> 'if they thought the OP was doing something against the 'rules' then they probably were.....even though they might not have realized what they were doing was wrong.' In my opinion-- from what I have seen on this site being deleted and people having to put ***** everytime they post about a vendor that isnt a paying vendor--just shows one thing. The only 'people' CS is concerned about are the ones that are putting $ into their wallets. Hey, we all have to make $ but let's not try anf pretend that this is what CS is doing.

Posted by alli3131

Posted by adelya21



Im confused so are you saying that if im a user on here (not someone who has one post on here just to bad mouth a company) that I can actually get kicked off this site rightfully???? im sorry but last time I checked im on this site to get everyone's reveiws about bad and good companies and NOT JUST THE GOOD.




It's CS site they can deactivate you account for just about any reason they see fit. SO yes if they think you are spreading bad reviews that you have no personal knowledge of they can give you the boot.

This topic has been debated for as long as I have been here and it really comes down to wording on most issues. And if it is a personal experience worded the right way there will be no issues.

So I still say you don't like the rules then don't play!!! They are the rules and they won't be changing anytime soon.....I'm sure CS has had their attorneys advise them, quite extensively on this and if they thought the OP was doing something against the 'rules' then they probably were.....even though they might not have realized what they were doing was wrong.
Bride2011 Posted:

Re: LiStEn uP… Read if you will ~!~!~!~

all this law talk made my brain hurt!!! I agree with you Tauny 100 % but I think the bottom line is, whether you agree with it or not, if you want to post on LIW you have to follow their rules (fair or not). If you want to share info that you feel might offend someone or is negative, FM or email!!! lol

Reply to this topic

Log in to reply or quote a post.