First let me state who I AM: Sgt Luginbuhl, Todd L USMC Active Duty Infantry Completed 2 tours in Iraq since 2003 Recently back from 7 month tour in Fallujah, Iraq
Now on to your new 'photo' of our Commander in Chief as the main page to your website, which I noticed after seeing the 'photo' on T.V. tonight. YOU DISGUST ME. WHO gave you the right to use those photos of fallen brothers in a political and ANTI-American theme? Where do you get off? I am unaware if you have ever served, nor do I think if you had, that you have ever seen combat.
Have you ever looked into the eyes of a dying man? Well I have, and let me tell you the last thing he would have said was, 'Tell Michael Moore to use my face to disgrace the President'.
He probably would have said, 'My life is ending, but our cause to restore a nation, and make it democratic is real, and TRUE'. Why don't you go over to Iraq and ask those Marines in Fallujah? Ask them what they think, why
they think they should be there. They would tell you something like this...'If we didn't fight the terrorists there in Fallujah, we would fight them here in America'. Or that these Terrorists that plague Iraq, are the only thing that stands in the way of freedom for the people of Iraq. And we are PROUD to SERVE TO MAKE THIS COUNTRY FREE WHATEVER THE COST!
Michael, understand this, Marines do a job that is not pretty and not easy, but as the late great President Ronald Reagan stated: 'Some people go their whole lives wondering if they made a difference in the world, MARINES don't have that problem.' We do a dirty job, and we do it for the greater good of America and the WORLD... Not because we don't like a particular person or leader. Something you could learn much from.
Remember this: 2,752 CIVILIANS died in an attack on AMERICA'S soil in one morning on September 11, 2001. Saddam Hussein killed HUNDRED of THOUSANDS of Iraqi *****e's in the late 90's to stop them from overturning his dictatorship. Total deaths in the war in Iraq are just over 1000, and we have been fighting for over a year and a half. How many CIVILIAN LIVES have been saved???
You never will be able to answer that question. If a brother can't walk, you push his wheelchair. If a fellow country needs help, you go in to help them as we have and ARE doing. You may think we are not helping them, but we are doing far more FOR that country than any reporter ever has stated. It is because of the liberal slant the media is putting on Iraq that you may never fully understand what is REALLY going on over there. The FACT is, AMERICA needs us in IRAQ. America also needs, and (as the over 59 Million votes state) WANTS BUSH TO LEAD THIS GREAT COUNTRY. Come to think of it, until America went into IRAQ, any Iraqi who showed the same amount of disrespect for his country and his countries leader would have been shot in the street... odd how the freedoms you take for granted are the same ones you want us to deny others.
Disgruntled Marine, Todd L Luginbuhl
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
A to my brothers and sisters.. for the fallen and those still fighting.
As for Michael Moore.. there is not an emotiacon for what I woul dlike to say to him
With all my heart I support the troops and believe that they believe they are fighting for a good cause. However, I do think one can support the troops and not support war. It is not unAmerican to ask questions, nor is it unpatriotic to hold our commander in chief to high standards when the lives of the fathers, sons, daughters, sisters and brothers of our fellow Americans are being sacrificed for what many believe is the wrong cause.
Myasmom I dont even have to stretch my imagination to consider what this country does to mainatin its status as a super power. We have been setting many 'democratic' regimes across the globe for many decades now.
The Marine who asks Michael Moore if he has ever seen the dying face of a solidier, might also want to ask a similar question of our president. He might also want to ask whether our president has seen the tens of thousands of women and children that have died in Iraq.
Michael Moore tatics are over the top, and in this instance shamefully insensitive, but, I think his agenda has been to encourage Americans to consider the possibility that the 'truths' that we believe define our democracy are not being practiced at all levels of government and even among citizens.
Our founding fathers said that democracy was an experiment in governing, thus it is constantly evolving. If we believe that supporting war without question is the only way to be truly American, or is the only way to be patriotic, then we risk compromising the very ideals this nation was built upon.
I look forward to the day when our troops will be safely reunited with their families and we have achieved peace.
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
With all my heart I support the troops and believe that they believe they are fighting for a good cause. However, I do think one can support the troops and not support war. It is not unAmerican to ask questions, nor is it unpatriotic to hold our commander in chief to high standards when the lives of the fathers, sons, daughters, sisters and brothers of our fellow Americans are being sacrificed for what many believe is the wrong cause.
You just touched the nail on the head..what many beleive to be the wrong cause'..but what about those who believe otherwise. Politics go both ways and I cant defend or blast anyone for thier beleiefs.
And not for nothing..why does it have to be that you believe the troops beleive they are fighting for a good cause. Why cant it be that many are fighting for a cause that they are very knowledgeable on but just not agreeable to their families and loved ones here.
Super power comes with a responsibility, we police in a sense and we go in and remove negativity. This negativity just so happened to be mixed with a little personal vendetta but still good will come out of us capturing both Sadam and Osama and any other terrorist that has the potential to shame us again on outr own soil.
lanikai
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
With all my heart I support the troops and believe that they believe they are fighting for a good cause. However, I do think one can support the troops and not support war. It is not unAmerican to ask questions, nor is it unpatriotic to hold our commander in chief to high standards when the lives of the fathers, sons, daughters, sisters and brothers of our fellow Americans are being sacrificed for what many believe is the wrong cause.
You just touched the nail on the head..what many beleive to be the wrong cause'..but what about those who believe otherwise. Politics go both ways and I cant defend or blast anyone for thier beleiefs.
And not for nothing..why does it have to be that you believe the troops beleive they are fighting for a good cause. Why cant it be that many are fighting for a cause that they are very knowledgeable on but just not agreeable to their families and loved ones here.
Super power comes with a responsibility, we police in a sense and we go in and remove negativity. This negativity just so happened to be mixed with a little personal vendetta but still good will come out of us capturing both Sadam and Osama and any other terrorist that has the potential to shame us again on outr own soil.
I understand what you are saying Annissa but at many levels the responsiblity of upholding democracy and 'policing' the world can easily come into conflict with each other. And I think that our democratic society is imperfect enough that we should not be targeting other nations and telling them how they should run their governments only when we feel it is in our interest to do so and not truly for the sake of advancing democracy.
We also forget the origins of our own history. When our colonial power Britain tried to dominate us as a colony we used guerilla warfare to resist them and kick them right back to Europe. And the insurgency that we are witnessing in Iraq could be connected to some people's desire to resist what they see as occupation, more so than a desire to annihilate Americans.
Many of the people that we are now hunting we gave them the skills and weapons that they now use against us because at one point they were served our interests. And I don't think it is enough to excuse Bush's personal vendetta by saying that good will come out of this. As a nation we have yet to focus on the unintended consequences of this war.
Based on Bush's criteria for going to war, there are currently a couple of other nations we should be fighting, but for some reason we are not. The logic behind Bush's doctrine of pre-emptive war is that we will be fighting many nations in the near future if they don't fit our standards of democracy. I hope the American public is prepared to deal with the implications of that.
As for preventing terrorists from shaming us on our own soil I am still trying to understand how Americans believe that establishing democracy in Iraq will prevent another terrorist attack in this country. I hope for all our sakes that logic bears fruit.
Oh here is a link to USMC.mil just one of the reasons why we are there
making bombs JUst in case that link doesn't work for you or you don't want to follow it, here is a little preview of what it is about
FORAWARD OPERATING BASE ISKANDARIYAH, Iraq (September 13, 2004) -- Soldiers from the Iraqi National Guard and Marines from 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit captured a bomb maker and explosive materials during a raid in the early morning hours of Sept. 12.
here is one reason, the Marine quoted in the letter gives others, this country wouldn't be able to handle another 9-11 and I am sorry but Al Quida and Iraq while maybe not directly connected, are connected even if it was only by their motive, to bring terrorism to the world. I think by taking a stand somewhere we are showing that we will not sit by idly while they kill innocent people.
I understand what you are saying Annissa but at many levels the responsiblity of upholding democracy and 'policing' the world can easily come into conflict with each other. And I think that our democratic society is imperfect enough that we should not be targeting other nations and telling them how they should run their governments only when we feel it is in our interest to do so and not truly for the sake of advancing democracy.
So you feel that we should leave people like Hitler alive then..so no country should intervene when we have a barbarian harming people just becasue its not 'our government'. Hence the definition Super power..other countries look up to us and that comes with a responsibility that some of us may agree with or not. And yes I do beleive that policing and trying to uphold democracy can come into conflict but I m not entirely in agreement with the example you choose to support your logic.
As for preventing terrorists from shaming us on our own soil I am still trying to understand how Americans believe that establishing democracy in Iraq will prevent another terrorist attack in this country.
Here is military logic..we have been the winners of many a war..we have been a symbol of what many beleive to be an untouchable country..when Sept 11th happened, people no longer felt safe becasue the bubble popped..we were vulnerable (still are) so our mission is to remove threats..do you think that if you have one evil power in the north, one in the south..etc dont you think that they would not eventually unite to destroy what they view as a common enemy (US)..you reference history..how many times has that happened..
heidla
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
I understand what you are saying Annissa but at many levels the responsiblity of upholding democracy and 'policing' the world can easily come into conflict with each other. And I think that our democratic society is imperfect enough that we should not be targeting other nations and telling them how they should run their governments only when we feel it is in our interest to do so and not truly for the sake of advancing democracy.
So you feel that we should leave people like Hitler alive then..we didnt have a true interest so no country should intervene when we have a barbarian harming people just becasue its not 'our government'. Hence the definition Super power..other countries look up to us and that comes with a responsibility that soe of us may agree with or not. And yes I do beleive that policing and trying to uphold democracy can come into conflict but I m not entirely in agreement with the example you choose to support your logic.
We did not enter WWII Until December of '41 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Until that point we were only providing aid, but as soon as we were attacked we decided that we had a vested interest.
Yes, being a super power comes with a price. We do have to do some 'policing'. It just seems odd to me how we pick and choose who to help and when. Seem s to me that we should be focusing on those that actually already have the WMD's instead of a country that is making malitaf cocktails in their basements. Or how about the genocide in Samolia? They have repeatedly asked for our help and instead we invade Iraq.
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
One question..do you honestly beleive than any president democratic or republican actually helps a country without some type of underlying interest?
Also we do know who has WMD most of the time we sold the technology to them. So it only makes sense..but so many people want to think we are the type of country that would never doa thing like that.
We did not enter WWII Until December of '41 after Japan attacked Pearl Harbor. Until that point we were only providing aid, but as soon as we were attacked we decided that we had a vested interest.
Hitler was used to represnt evil..the discussion s not about our role but our reposnsibility if we are face (when) we are faced with another individual like this..should we leave hi m to his own measures becasue its 'not our place' or step in..that was the context of the discussion.
heidla
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
One question..do you honestly beleive than any president democratic or republican actually helps a country without some type of interest?
Of course not, my point was exactly that. The Us is not this highly noble nation that goes around with the mission to set countries free of tyranny. We are not in Iraq for the grand purpose of spreading freedom. We are there because they have a comodity that we want , OIL. Just like not getting involved with WWII until we were directly affected. Just like getting invoved in the first Gulf War. Just like aiding Afganistan against the Soviets. We always have a motive. That is why we won't go into Samolia because it offers us nothing.
One question: Don't you think that being a super power sometimes means helping those that are weaker without reaping some sort of benefit?
Also we do know who has WMD most of the time we sold the technology to them. So it only makes sense..but so many people want to think we are the type of country that would never doa thing like that.
Trust me I am not one of those people.
Hitler was used to represnt evil..the discussion s not about our role but our reposnsibility if we are face (when) we are faced with another individual like this..should we leave hi m to his own measures becasue its 'not our place' or step in..that was the context of the discussion.
My point was just that with Hitler we allowed it to go on until we were directly attacked. While Saddam is just as evil he has never attacked the US. We have an interest in that region so instead of waiting for something we just went in and invaded.
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
The Us is not this highly noble nation that goes around with the mission to set countries free of tyranny.
Well then we need to change the message we give to recruit people to enlist into the military and the message that we send to the rest of the world. I am an immigrant and JMO..thats how many contries view us..indirect or not..we send this message in many of our actions and promises.
Don't you think that being a super power sometimes means helping those that are weaker without reaping some sort of benefit?
Yes i do..thats me being a human being..but thats also a point I am trying to make.. Very few have actually accomplished this..republican or democratic..
My point was just that with Hitler we allowed it to go on until we were directly attacked. While Saddam is just as evil he has never attacked the US. We have an interest in that region so instead of waiting for something we just went in and invaded.
Agreed but one is history and one is future..perhaps tis is the beginning of how we will proceed from now on..We evolve and sometimes something that starts out negative can be spun into something positive. This doesnt mean help tom, **** and HArry but if we want to be a leader..we have to act the part even if its ot safe..kinda like being a policeman with the threat of getting shot.
Saddam is just as evil he has never attacked the US.
That may be true in the literal sense but reference the ability to join with others and make us relive 911..he is a potential threat and honestly I think we should have just assasinated him like other countries do to our people..it may bot be right but it would have saved some of my friends lives. But wait..we dont do things like that..only Bush does tactics like that.
lanikai
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
QUOTE] That may be true in the literal sense but reference the ability to join with others and make us relive 911..he is a potential threat and honestly I think we should have just assasinated him like other countries do to our people..it may bot be right but it would have saved some of my friends lives. But wait..we dont do things like that..only Bush does tactics like that.
Yes, but there are plenty of other countries that are better equipped with weapons that could potentially join with other countries to attack us that we not currently warring with. Are we going to go into every country just because we think they are a potential threat and topple their governments? No, because we did not go to Iraq to eliminate a threat, we went to Iraq for profit. It seems as though it's okay for us to misuse the notion of democracy to advance our interests as a superpower even if our actions do not support freedom and liberty.
People are focusing too heavily on the issue of geography. I repeat how can we prevent another terrorist attack in this country if the people we are trying to stop from attacking us are already here? Has no one thought about that? Killing all the so-called terrorists in Iraq and any of their potential allies won't change that. This is no longer a war about military strength and fighting enemies from thousands of miles away.
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Are we going to go into every country just because we think they are a potential threat and topple their governments?
How do you think we became a super power..everything we have done has ramifications and some may now just be catching up to us.
And not to be calloused but I rather be the one doing the stomping to remain top dog than the one getting stomped on.. Flame away..
lanikai
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
Are we going to go into every country just because we think they are a potential threat and topple their governments?
How do you think we became a super power..everything we have done has ramifications and some may now just be catching up to us.
And not to be calloused but I rather be the one doing the stomping to remain top dog than the one getting stomped on.. Flame away..
That may be myasmom, but if this super power does not learn from its own history it will fall. We are going to find that type of mentality is not going to end or win the war on terrorism.
marymoon
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
Are we going to go into every country just because we think they are a potential threat and topple their governments?
How do you think we became a super power..everything we have done has ramifications and some may now just be catching up to us.
And not to be calloused but I rather be the one doing the stomping to remain top dog than the one getting stomped on.. Flame away..
Personally I'd rather be at the bottom and be honest and true, anda true champion of justice. The United States has a lot of pwer, but just like with Spiderman, With great power comes great responsibility and we have NOT lived up to that historically, whether it be by blowing up innocent children, overthrowing legitiamte leaders and installing dictatorships or by arming terrorists..
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Personally I'd rather be at the bottom and be honest and true, anda true champion of justice.
The bottom is exactly where we will be..the other nations do not play fair. nor do we and that is something that will never change..no mater how much the majority of us want it to be. History as a whole proves that.
But if we want any good to come out of this election or anything..listen to Kerry's graceful defeat..America must unite because it is not another nation that may defeat us..we may defeat ourselves. Because we are divided and it shows..but it doesnt change what our reality is wether we beleive in this war or not. And thats a hard pill that we all have to swallow..supporters or not..
marymoon
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
Personally I'd rather be at the bottom and be honest and true, anda true champion of justice.
The bottom is exactly where we will be..the other nations do not play fair. nor do we and that is something that will never change..no mater how much the majority of us want it to be. History as a whole proves that.
But if we want any good to come out of this election or anything..listen to Kerry's graceful defeat..America must unite because it is not another nation that may defeat us..we may defeat ourselves. Because we are divided and it shows..but it doesnt change what our reality is wether we beleive in this war or not. And thats a hard pill that we all have to swallow..supporters or not..
We disagree on so much, it's hard to fathom.
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
We disagree on so much, it's hard to fathom.
Its not hard to fathom. I live in reality while some people live in dreams. And thats not a put down..it just comes with an understanding that some of the liberties we have in this country were not all obtained in a 'nice way'. Survival of the fittest is not only in the jungle, I realized one day that.. A. Just becasue there is some kind of policy spouting Afirmative action does not guarantee that every American will follow through..there are loopholes that people get through beleive me B. This holds true even for Gay rights C. The odds of us going into a country just becasue we want to help with out an underlying reason are slim..even when we do humantitarian efforts..something usually leaks out later as to why we helped and many a time we get some kind of benefit wether it be from a strategic standpoint or some resource the country has..or to get favor with an alli
So dont take it personal that there are alot of people..almost 50/50 that may disagree with what you or I beleive in respectively.
P.S I welcome change and would love for us to have a Utopia..but there are definitely some modifications in what I may want as my utopia.
lanikai
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
Posted by myasmom
We disagree on so much, it's hard to fathom.
Its not hard to fathom. I live in reality while some people live in dreams. And thats not a put down..it just comes with an understanding that some of the liberties we have in this country were not all obtained in a 'nice way'. Survival of the fittest is not only in the jungle, I realized one day that.. A. Just becasue there is some kind of policy spouting Afirmative action does not guarantee that every American will follow through..there are loopholes that people get through beleive me B. This holds true even for Gay rights C. The odds of us going into a country just becasue we want to help with out an underlying reason are slim..even when we do humantitarian efforts..something usually leaks out later as to why we helped and many a time we get some kind of benefit wether it be from a strategic standpoint or some resource the country has..or to get favor with an alli
So dont take it personal that there are alot of people..almost 50/50 that may disagree with what you or I beleive in respectively.
P.S I welcome change and would love for us to have a Utopia..but there are definitely some modifications in what I may want as my utopia.
I think the history of this nation is a simple testament to the idea that our liberties have not been achieved in nice way. Some Americans think an American utopia has been achieved while other are well aware that we continue to struggle towards our ideals of equality and democracy. I know you were giving an example, but the reason why we have affirmative action and civil rights laws on the books is primarily because we cannot trust many of our fellow citizens to follow through. I think the people that they were designed to help are acutely aware of these loopholes which is why they continute to fight and mobilize today. But I shudder to think of where we would be without them. A lot of Blacks including us in the Caribbean community would not be here without them, nor would we have progressed as far as we we have without them. But many of us know they are imperfect.
Just because people are fighing for civil rights does not mean they believe that we have achieved a utopia, nor do we necessarily all believe that we are in Iraq fighting for democracy. But we are pushing to make this great nation uphold its principles to the best of its ability despite its imperfections. And I think that can potentially become a common ground between all Americans if we are willing to do the serious and painful work of engaging in these dialogues-kind of what we are doing right now.
myasmom
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Re: marine's letter to micheal moore
And I think that can potentially become a common ground between all Americans if we are willing to do the serious and painful work of engaging in these dialogues-kind of what we are doing right now.
actually some of our dialogues have been people trying to convince people to beleive what they do. It has been both discussions and attacks.
