Ok lets start talking w/a controversial topic!

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

to clarify my point

what i am saying is this: people should celebrate Christmas in whatever way they see fit as long as it isn't all about commercialism and materialism - as long as its about family and love and charity etc.

BUT the holiday itself IS a religious one - it is a day set aside to celebrate the birth of Christ

How people celebrate it is an entirely different matter - it doesnt take away from what the day is SUPPOSED to be about

that's my point anyway - how i see it.

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Tilde i agree with you, sorry i went off in the other post but that persons comment just bothered me. Yes the church recognizes it as the birth of jesus i do know this and that is fine i don't have anything against that. But remember there are people who don't follow everything the church says so my point was that yes a person who is not religious can celebrate christmas and have their own meaning. I go to church for mass on christmas which probably alot of ppl who do argue that its a religious holiday don't even do(not you tilde, i know you do)

Everyone should follow their hearts and do whats best for them

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ok i can agree with that

there are russian, greek, armenian
all different forms of christian orthodox

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

the bible does NOT say that dec 25th is the birth of Christ - but it DOES say that Christ was born

so what does it matter what day we celebrate - the church designated a special day for all Christians of the world to celebrate together. . . and therefore it is a religious holiday

obviously not everyone celebrates it as a religious one, but intrinsically it is. . .

eta: you guys know i NEVER get offended but i am totally offended right now

i am not saying everyone should celebrate Christmas as the day that Jesus was born - but to say that it is NOT a religious holiday and NOT to be celebrated as such is pretty darn offensive!

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Tilde- i never said that it SHOULDN't be celebrated as a religious holiday, do what makes you happy and do what you believe in, i would never tell someone what they believe is wrong, my point was that SOME people don't see it as a religious holiday. I got annoyed at the comment someone made that 'it annoys them that christians don't celebrate it as the birth of jesus' i thought that statement was wrong.

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yes i just read your other post above - i see what you are saying but as a Christian, you ( not YOU but the universal YOU ) believe that Christ was born and hte church designated a day to celebrate that ( I WAS talking about the Catholic church but I just looked it up and it was started by a King so whatever - in modern times. . . I think pretty much all Christian churches follow dec 25 as a day to CELEBRATE His birth ) so why would you ( again, not YOU lol ) not celebrate it as such?

Does that mean that you celebrate in some random day in April or wherever the theorists say the actual birth was?

I dont understand all of this bc honestly I never thought about it any other way than the birth of Christ that has been distorted by popular culture

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actually christian orthodox is january 7th but that is for those who are extremely religious and follow the old calendar so for me it is different but we dont follow the old calendar so we do celebrate it on december 25th...i wrote in another post infact a few pages back that many russians celebrate it on january 7th and other christian orthodox people do too. Even we celebrate on december 25th we also do recognize january 7th

Lukes gospel explains his birthdate.

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oh yeah i got ya - that makes sense. . . and i understand that but your first post confused me bc that is like me saying that Jan 7th ISNT a religious holiday. . . bc it is not 'MY' Christmas ( even though technically I am supposed to go to church that day but thats a different story LOL )

but i dont even think that jan 7th is supposed to be the 'proven' birth date i think it is also a more symbolic date like dec 25 . . .

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Yes january 7th is not a proven date for the birth of jesus, it is symbolic like december 25th.

I know you are very religious tilde so i know what you got defensive...Honestly, i always respect you for your strong religious beliefs and always saying how you feel about any of this...i dont care if others do things differently than I do or feel differently, but it bothers me when others make rude comments (NOT YOU) so i go to the extreme when responding.

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

to clarify my point

what i am saying is this: people should celebrate Christmas in whatever way they see fit as long as it isn't all about commercialism and materialism - as long as its about family and love and charity etc.

BUT the holiday itself IS a religious one - it is a day set aside to celebrate the birth of Christ

How people celebrate it is an entirely different matter - it doesnt take away from what the day is SUPPOSED to be about

that's my point anyway - how i see it.

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Tilde i agree with you, sorry i went off in the other post but that persons comment just bothered me. Yes the church recognizes it as the birth of jesus i do know this and that is fine i don't have anything against that. But remember there are people who don't follow everything the church says so my point was that yes a person who is not religious can celebrate christmas and have their own meaning. I go to church for mass on christmas which probably alot of ppl who do argue that its a religious holiday don't even do(not you tilde, i know you do)

Everyone should follow their hearts and do whats best for them

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ok i can agree with that

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If what i said offended you i feel bad and hope it didnt, dont care if it offended the poster who made the comment though.

i think that people in general, regardless of their beliefs, should celebrate in a way that is appropriate for them

as long as they are decent people that arent hurting others, its fine with me!!

i have my menorah next to my xmas tree LOL

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

the bible does NOT say that dec 25th is the birth of Christ - but it DOES say that Christ was born

so what does it matter what day we celebrate - the church designated a special day for all Christians of the world to celebrate together. . . and therefore it is a religious holiday

obviously not everyone celebrates it as a religious one, but intrinsically it is. . .

eta: you guys know i NEVER get offended but i am totally offended right now

i am not saying everyone should celebrate Christmas as the day that Jesus was born - but to say that it is NOT a religious holiday and NOT to be celebrated as such is pretty darn offensive!

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Tilde- i never said that it SHOULDN't be celebrated as a religious holiday, do what makes you happy and do what you believe in, i would never tell someone what they believe is wrong, my point was that SOME people don't see it as a religious holiday. I got annoyed at the comment someone made that 'it annoys them that christians don't celebrate it as the birth of jesus' i thought that statement was wrong.

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yes i just read your other post above - i see what you are saying but as a Christian, you ( not YOU but the universal YOU ) believe that Christ was born and hte church designated a day to celebrate that ( I WAS talking about the Catholic church but I just looked it up and it was started by a King so whatever - in modern times. . . I think pretty much all Christian churches follow dec 25 as a day to CELEBRATE His birth ) so why would you ( again, not YOU lol ) not celebrate it as such?

Does that mean that you celebrate in some random day in April or wherever the theorists say the actual birth was?

I dont understand all of this bc honestly I never thought about it any other way than the birth of Christ that has been distorted by popular culture

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actually christian orthodox is january 7th but that is for those who are extremely religious and follow the old calendar so for me it is different but we dont follow the old calendar so we do celebrate it on december 25th...i wrote in another post infact a few pages back that many russians celebrate it on january 7th and other christian orthodox people do too. Even we celebrate on december 25th we also do recognize january 7th

Lukes gospel explains his birthdate.

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oh yeah i got ya - that makes sense. . . and i understand that but your first post confused me bc that is like me saying that Jan 7th ISNT a religious holiday. . . bc it is not 'MY' Christmas ( even though technically I am supposed to go to church that day but thats a different story LOL )

but i dont even think that jan 7th is supposed to be the 'proven' birth date i think it is also a more symbolic date like dec 25 . . .

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Yes january 7th is not a proven date for the birth of jesus, it is symbolic like december 25th.

I know you are very religious tilde so i know what you got defensive...Honestly, i always respect you for your strong religious beliefs and always saying how you feel about any of this...i dont care if others do things differently than I do or feel differently, but it bothers me when others make rude comments (NOT YOU) so i go to the extreme when responding.

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no i totally understand that!!

when i read your post and then looked to the left and saw it was you i was so surprised bc it didnt sound like you at all!

i respect that everyone views these things differently - and i really do love hearing about ( reading about ) very different views ESPECIALLY on religion bc people are so passionate about their personal beliefs!

ETA: i think i was offended bc i was confused about your point - now i get what you are trying to say ( i still dont agree with you LOL but i get it! )

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by mathteach

Yeah, isn't it called 'Little Christmas?' My neighbors are devout Catholics and they celebrate it in a huge way.

Also, don't Orthodox Greeks celebrate Christmas and Easter on different days?

Just wondering

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well ill call it CHRISTIAN orthodox since first of all i am orthodox but NOT greek...i explained above SOME christian orthodox people celebrate it on January 7th but from what i've personally seen its mostly russians who do this and not even ALL russians. Most greeks i know do celebrate december 25th, i even celebrate it on the 25th. Most of our generation and even our parents celebrate the 25th, those who follow the old calendar are extremely religious and follow even different rules and strictly follow the bible so i won't pretend like i do so i don't celebrate on january 7th.

Easter yes it is at different times but once every 4 years or so it does land on the same day otherwise each year it changes sometimes its a week apart and other times even as much as 4 weeks apart

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Thanks! You are VERY knowledgeable about your religions. I was a bit of a rebel before and learned all I could about Eastern Religion, while neglecting the Western ones.

I am not at all trying to hurt offend or insult anyone....but for the longest time....from thanksgving through new years has been called the 'holiday season.' I am not the most religious person....not even a little .....but I do know that in my house we take the time to honor our family our freinds and people who could use a little help....we do go to midnight mass ....we donate toys food and time ...we help out at church ( I am a sub religion teacher ...big shock right) I do believe in god . However I dont feel that people who onlu use christmas as a time to see family and celebrate that are wrong.......the idea of christmas to good christians is about Jesus ....but how many of those people actually spend the day in worship and not with their friends and familys ?? I just think in this day and age with all the things horrible that happen every day it is amazing that there is still that one day that a large amount of people use to go out of their way to bring happiness to those they care about and it is beautiful that families get together people laugh smile and rejoice about the positive and for a small amount of time the 'bad ' in the world is gone


ETA------- sorry I went on and on ...

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Posted by kellybean

I am not at all trying to hurt offend or insult anyone....but for the longest time....from thanksgving through new years has been called the 'holiday season.' I am not the most religious person....not even a little .....but I do know that in my house we take the time to honor our family our freinds and people who could use a little help....we do go to midnight mass ....we donate toys food and time ...we help out at church ( I am a sub religion teacher ...big shock right) I do believe in god . However I dont feel that people who onlu use christmas as a time to see family and celebrate that are wrong.......the idea of christmas to good christians is about Jesus ....but how many of those people actually spend the day in worship and not with their friends and familys ?? I just think in this day and age with all the things horrible that happen every day it is amazing that there is still that one day that a large amount of people use to go out of their way to bring happiness to those they care about and it is beautiful that families get together people laugh smile and rejoice about the positive and for a small amount of time the 'bad ' in the world is gone

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beautiful!!

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Posted by Snowflake08

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Posted by kellybean

I am not at all trying to hurt offend or insult anyone....but for the longest time....from thanksgving through new years has been called the 'holiday season.' I am not the most religious person....not even a little .....but I do know that in my house we take the time to honor our family our freinds and people who could use a little help....we do go to midnight mass ....we donate toys food and time ...we help out at church ( I am a sub religion teacher ...big shock right) I do believe in god . However I dont feel that people who onlu use christmas as a time to see family and celebrate that are wrong.......the idea of christmas to good christians is about Jesus ....but how many of those people actually spend the day in worship and not with their friends and familys ?? I just think in this day and age with all the things horrible that happen every day it is amazing that there is still that one day that a large amount of people use to go out of their way to bring happiness to those they care about and it is beautiful that families get together people laugh smile and rejoice about the positive and for a small amount of time the 'bad ' in the world is gone

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beautiful!!

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great point!

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Posted by kellybean

I am not at all trying to hurt offend or insult anyone....but for the longest time....from thanksgving through new years has been called the 'holiday season.' I am not the most religious person....not even a little .....but I do know that in my house we take the time to honor our family our freinds and people who could use a little help....we do go to midnight mass ....we donate toys food and time ...we help out at church ( I am a sub religion teacher ...big shock right) I do believe in god . However I dont feel that people who onlu use christmas as a time to see family and celebrate that are wrong.......the idea of christmas to good christians is about Jesus ....but how many of those people actually spend the day in worship and not with their friends and familys ?? I just think in this day and age with all the things horrible that happen every day it is amazing that there is still that one day that a large amount of people use to go out of their way to bring happiness to those they care about and it is beautiful that families get together people laugh smile and rejoice about the positive and for a small amount of time the 'bad ' in the world is gone


ETA------- sorry I went on and on ...

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Posted by kellybean

I am not at all trying to hurt offend or insult anyone....but for the longest time....from thanksgving through new years has been called the 'holiday season.' I am not the most religious person....not even a little .....but I do know that in my house we take the time to honor our family our freinds and people who could use a little help....we do go to midnight mass ....we donate toys food and time ...we help out at church ( I am a sub religion teacher ...big shock right) I do believe in god . However I dont feel that people who onlu use christmas as a time to see family and celebrate that are wrong.......the idea of christmas to good christians is about Jesus ....but how many of those people actually spend the day in worship and not with their friends and familys ?? I just think in this day and age with all the things horrible that happen every day it is amazing that there is still that one day that a large amount of people use to go out of their way to bring happiness to those they care about and it is beautiful that families get together people laugh smile and rejoice about the positive and for a small amount of time the 'bad ' in the world is gone


ETA------- sorry I went on and on ...

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very well said

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by ant n tilde

the bible does NOT say that dec 25th is the birth of Christ - but it DOES say that Christ was born

so what does it matter what day we celebrate - the church designated a special day for all Christians of the world to celebrate together. . . and therefore it is a religious holiday

obviously not everyone celebrates it as a religious one, but intrinsically it is. . .

eta: you guys know i NEVER get offended but i am totally offended right now

i am not saying everyone should celebrate Christmas as the day that Jesus was born - but to say that it is NOT a religious holiday and NOT to be celebrated as such is pretty darn offensive!

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Tilde- i never said that it SHOULDN't be celebrated as a religious holiday, do what makes you happy and do what you believe in, i would never tell someone what they believe is wrong, my point was that SOME people don't see it as a religious holiday. I got annoyed at the comment someone made that 'it annoys them that christians don't celebrate it as the birth of jesus' i thought that statement was wrong.

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yes i just read your other post above - i see what you are saying but as a Christian, you ( not YOU but the universal YOU ) believe that Christ was born and hte church designated a day to celebrate that ( I WAS talking about the Catholic church but I just looked it up and it was started by a King so whatever - in modern times. . . I think pretty much all Christian churches follow dec 25 as a day to CELEBRATE His birth ) so why would you ( again, not YOU lol ) not celebrate it as such?

Does that mean that you celebrate in some random day in April or wherever the theorists say the actual birth was?

I dont understand all of this bc honestly I never thought about it any other way than the birth of Christ that has been distorted by popular culture

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actually christian orthodox is january 7th but that is for those who are extremely religious and follow the old calendar so for me it is different but we dont follow the old calendar so we do celebrate it on december 25th...i wrote in another post infact a few pages back that many russians celebrate it on january 7th and other christian orthodox people do too. Even we celebrate on december 25th we also do recognize january 7th

Lukes gospel explains his birthdate.

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oh yeah i got ya - that makes sense. . . and i understand that but your first post confused me bc that is like me saying that Jan 7th ISNT a religious holiday. . . bc it is not 'MY' Christmas ( even though technically I am supposed to go to church that day but thats a different story LOL )

but i dont even think that jan 7th is supposed to be the 'proven' birth date i think it is also a more symbolic date like dec 25 . . .

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Yes january 7th is not a proven date for the birth of jesus, it is symbolic like december 25th.

I know you are very religious tilde so i know what you got defensive...Honestly, i always respect you for your strong religious beliefs and always saying how you feel about any of this...i dont care if others do things differently than I do or feel differently, but it bothers me when others make rude comments (NOT YOU) so i go to the extreme when responding.

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no i totally understand that!!

when i read your post and then looked to the left and saw it was you i was so surprised bc it didnt sound like you at all!

i respect that everyone views these things differently - and i really do love hearing about ( reading about ) very different views ESPECIALLY on religion bc people are so passionate about their personal beliefs!

ETA: i think i was offended bc i was confused about your point - now i get what you are trying to say ( i still dont agree with you LOL but i get it! )

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LOL not everybody has to agree on everything, and i especially don't think people HAVE to feel the same way as I do. Plus I would rather have somebody disagree with me and stand by their beliefs rather than just nod and agree with me even if they feel differently.

Yeah I think im PMS'ing so for some reason that one post ticked me off lol, if i read it another time it probably wouldn't have ticked me off as much lol.

Ill end with saying that yes christmas is recognized as the birth of jesus and many people celebrate it as such and the church has made it a religious holiday. BUT I also can understand someone who might not be very religious and celebrating christmas because I believe with this holiday theres also so much more meaning behind it.

I made my points above but I can also say that I will be at church for christmas mass. I know i also said made up stuff annoys me but it doesn't so ill delete that part after i post this but i can go to church and celebrate it but also view it for all the other things christmas is about.

Wow, I know my response may not sit well w/ some, please keep in mind this is just my own perspective... I grew up Catholic. I have a priest and a nun in my family. I lectored and sang in the church choir as a teen. When I was in college I studied various religons, and I observe practice of worship from several religons, I studied then. I meditate at a Buddist Temple. I practice Jewish Believes by choice and I will go to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve with my Family. I am in process of converting to Judism, I will not recieve host, but I will show respect for the Church and my family by sharing in the celebration of their faith with them. For Channukah we are going to celebrate w/ Jews & non-jews. We will have Christmas with my family. We do not have a tree,or Santa around. We have a menorah and gilt, with pretty linens, and snowflakes, and it still feels like the holidays just w/o the hassel. The years before when I did have a tree, it always turned in to a mess...

Even though the Tree is a Pagan Symbol of the celebration of Winter Soliste.

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Posted by perfectpair

Wow, I know my response may not sit well w/ some, please keep in mind this is just my own perspective... I grew up Catholic. I have a priest and a nun in my family. I lectored and sang in the church choir as a teen. When I was in college I studied various religons, and I observe practice of worship from several religons, I studied then. I meditate at a Buddist Temple. I practice Jewish Believes by choice and I will go to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve with my Family. I am in process of converting to Judism, I will not recieve host, but I will show respect for the Church and my family by sharing in the celebration of their faith with them. For Channukah we are going to celebrate w/ Jews & non-jews. We will have Christmas with my family. We do not have a tree,or Santa around. We have a menorah and gilt, with pretty linens, and snowflakes, and it still feels like the holidays just w/o the hassel. The years before when I did have a tree, it always turned in to a mess...

Even though the Tree is a Pagan Symbol of the celebration of Winter Soliste.

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i think it is wondeful that you opened your heart and mind to differnt things!! I really admire you for that!! It is awesome!

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Posted by angl2001

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Posted by perfectpair

Wow, I know my response may not sit well w/ some, please keep in mind this is just my own perspective... I grew up Catholic. I have a priest and a nun in my family. I lectored and sang in the church choir as a teen. When I was in college I studied various religons, and I observe practice of worship from several religons, I studied then. I meditate at a Buddist Temple. I practice Jewish Believes by choice and I will go to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve with my Family. I am in process of converting to Judism, I will not recieve host, but I will show respect for the Church and my family by sharing in the celebration of their faith with them. For Channukah we are going to celebrate w/ Jews & non-jews. We will have Christmas with my family. We do not have a tree,or Santa around. We have a menorah and gilt, with pretty linens, and snowflakes, and it still feels like the holidays just w/o the hassel. The years before when I did have a tree, it always turned in to a mess...

Even though the Tree is a Pagan Symbol of the celebration of Winter Soliste.

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i think it is wondeful that you opened your heart and mind to differnt things!! I really admire you for that!! It is awesome!

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Aww Thanks Heather


BTW: Thanks for the Heads up w/ the deals @ BB&B we got the Tassimo at a Great Price and we're loving it!

I am Greek and Im Greek Orthodox. I celebrate xmas on Dec 25th bec I go with the new calender. Fh is Greek and he is Greek Orthodox but he goes by the old calendar, therefor he celebrates xmas on Jan 7. Technically the 'real xmas' is Jan 7. I go to church on both days

I celebrate it twice, double the gifts for me

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Posted by perfectpair

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Posted by angl2001

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Posted by perfectpair

Wow, I know my response may not sit well w/ some, please keep in mind this is just my own perspective... I grew up Catholic. I have a priest and a nun in my family. I lectored and sang in the church choir as a teen. When I was in college I studied various religons, and I observe practice of worship from several religons, I studied then. I meditate at a Buddist Temple. I practice Jewish Believes by choice and I will go to Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve with my Family. I am in process of converting to Judism, I will not recieve host, but I will show respect for the Church and my family by sharing in the celebration of their faith with them. For Channukah we are going to celebrate w/ Jews & non-jews. We will have Christmas with my family. We do not have a tree,or Santa around. We have a menorah and gilt, with pretty linens, and snowflakes, and it still feels like the holidays just w/o the hassel. The years before when I did have a tree, it always turned in to a mess...

Even though the Tree is a Pagan Symbol of the celebration of Winter Soliste.

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i think it is wondeful that you opened your heart and mind to differnt things!! I really admire you for that!! It is awesome!

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Aww Thanks Heather


BTW: Thanks for the Heads up w/ the deals @ BB&B we got the Tassimo at a Great Price and we're loving it!

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no problem! anytime glad i can be of help!

I agree with everything Tilde said. And honestly about the whole Santa thing. My mom has always taughted us from the beginning about Saint Nicholas and the meaning of gift giving. I can honestly admit I LOVE christmas but I LOVE thanksgiving more because that is the holiday that is not commercialized. It is where I can express my gratefulness for everything I have. Now Christmas to me is about the birth of jesus. i grew up in a very religious family and went to catholic school my whole life. And ahve always been taughed that christmas is to celebrate jesus and his birth and also all that he has done for us.

Now I definitely respect every other religion out there. And I definitely respect those who do not believe in any religion. I say no one is wrong. Everyeon has the right to believe in what they want. AND MORE power to you for doing so.

But i also think America has evolved and allowed christmas to become so commercialized. i dont think many years ago people who didnt believe in jesus or the birth of jesus and all of what the bible and religion is about celebrated christmas. I honestly think after years and the HOLIDAY evolving with Santa and christmas trees and lights and gifts America commercialized christmas. I dont know if that is naive to say but i do think that many many years ago atheists and agnostics and other christians who dont go to church or believe in jesus and his birth actually celebrated christmas. idk if i am going to get slammed for saying that but it is my opinion. i think after years of all the materialism and displays of christmas things christmas turned into just that a SEASON for MANY and that is okay to celebrate it with family and friends to be thankful and give gifts to your loved ones etc. but i also dont agree with people who bash religions and the people who believe in them and then celebrate the holiday/religious or not.

i would feel teh same way about memorial day. you say you (universal you) hate the war and the president and the troops should get the hell out of iraq/afganastan....well then DONT celebrate memorial day because you obviously have no idea what that holiday means!!!!

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Posted by cbcf

I agree with everything Tilde said. And honestly about the whole Santa thing. My mom has always taughted us from the beginning about Saint Nicholas and the meaning of gift giving. I can honestly admit I LOVE christmas but I LOVE thanksgiving more because that is the holiday that is not commercialized. It is where I can express my gratefulness for everything I have. Now Christmas to me is about the birth of jesus. i grew up in a very religious family and went to catholic school my whole life. And ahve always been taughed that christmas is to celebrate jesus and his birth and also all that he has done for us.

Now I definitely respect every other religion out there. And I definitely respect those who do not believe in any religion. I say no one is wrong. Everyeon has the right to believe in what they want. AND MORE power to you for doing so.

But i also think America has evolved and allowed christmas to become so commercialized. i dont think many years ago people who didnt believe in jesus or the birth of jesus and all of what the bible and religion is about celebrated christmas. I honestly think after years and the HOLIDAY evolving with Santa and christmas trees and lights and gifts America commercialized christmas. I dont know if that is naive to say but i do think that many many years ago atheists and agnostics and other christians who dont go to church or believe in jesus and his birth actually celebrated christmas. idk if i am going to get slammed for saying that but it is my opinion. i think after years of all the materialism and displays of christmas things christmas turned into just that a SEASON for MANY and that is okay to celebrate it with family and friends to be thankful and give gifts to your loved ones etc. but i also dont agree with people who bash religions and the people who believe in them and then celebrate the holiday/religious or not.

i would feel teh same way about memorial day. you say you (universal you) hate the war and the president and the troops should get the hell out of iraq/afganastan....well then DONT celebrate memorial day because you obviously have no idea what that holiday means!!!!

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actually the pagans did celebrate december 25th and THEN christians picked up this tradition and AFTER it became about the birth of jesus so even before all this it was celebrated but before that it was recognized as the birthdate of a pagan god.

But i do agree with you about how it has become a materialistic holiday.

I dont bash it for being religious or not. No its not the actual birthdate of jesus but I have no problem with it being recognized as his birthdate, i think my problem was simply with rude comments against someones view, it was more the close minded comments. I think everyone is entitled to follow whatever they want so i will always stick up for that even if its different than my own view