Ok lets start talking w/a controversial topic!

I think we should just not have these religious posts anymore....lol then noone can be upset or offended!! JMO.

I like stating my opinion but we all know when these posts come along ....they can get ugly! I am surprised this one didnt get as out of hand as last time...............

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by cbcf

I agree with everything Tilde said. And honestly about the whole Santa thing. My mom has always taughted us from the beginning about Saint Nicholas and the meaning of gift giving. I can honestly admit I LOVE christmas but I LOVE thanksgiving more because that is the holiday that is not commercialized. It is where I can express my gratefulness for everything I have. Now Christmas to me is about the birth of jesus. i grew up in a very religious family and went to catholic school my whole life. And ahve always been taughed that christmas is to celebrate jesus and his birth and also all that he has done for us.

Now I definitely respect every other religion out there. And I definitely respect those who do not believe in any religion. I say no one is wrong. Everyeon has the right to believe in what they want. AND MORE power to you for doing so.

But i also think America has evolved and allowed christmas to become so commercialized. i dont think many years ago people who didnt believe in jesus or the birth of jesus and all of what the bible and religion is about celebrated christmas. I honestly think after years and the HOLIDAY evolving with Santa and christmas trees and lights and gifts America commercialized christmas. I dont know if that is naive to say but i do think that many many years ago atheists and agnostics and other christians who dont go to church or believe in jesus and his birth actually celebrated christmas. idk if i am going to get slammed for saying that but it is my opinion. i think after years of all the materialism and displays of christmas things christmas turned into just that a SEASON for MANY and that is okay to celebrate it with family and friends to be thankful and give gifts to your loved ones etc. but i also dont agree with people who bash religions and the people who believe in them and then celebrate the holiday/religious or not.

i would feel teh same way about memorial day. you say you (universal you) hate the war and the president and the troops should get the hell out of iraq/afganastan....well then DONT celebrate memorial day because you obviously have no idea what that holiday means!!!!

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actually the pagans did celebrate december 25th and THEN christians picked up this tradition and AFTER it became about the birth of jesus so even before all this it was celebrated but before that it was recognized as the birthdate of a pagan god.

But i do agree with you about how it has become a materialistic holiday.

I dont bash it for being religious or not. No its not the actual birthdate of jesus but I have no problem with it being recognized as his birthdate, i think my problem was simply with rude comments against someones view, it was more the close minded comments. I think everyone is entitled to follow whatever they want so i will always stick up for that even if its different than my own view

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sorry i know about the pagans celebrating it first i was just meaning like christians/roman catholics were prob the only ones celebrating it that long ago....lol but yea i feel it is so commercialized now but what can you do....

and i agree with the rude comments. there is no need to bash someone religion. i mean yes some people dont believe in anything and that is fine i cant and would never expect everyone to believe in what i believe in...it just isnt right or respectful of me. and i do feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion but sadly there are close minded people in this world and i guess we have to live wiht it....

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Posted by cbcf

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by cbcf

I agree with everything Tilde said. And honestly about the whole Santa thing. My mom has always taughted us from the beginning about Saint Nicholas and the meaning of gift giving. I can honestly admit I LOVE christmas but I LOVE thanksgiving more because that is the holiday that is not commercialized. It is where I can express my gratefulness for everything I have. Now Christmas to me is about the birth of jesus. i grew up in a very religious family and went to catholic school my whole life. And ahve always been taughed that christmas is to celebrate jesus and his birth and also all that he has done for us.

Now I definitely respect every other religion out there. And I definitely respect those who do not believe in any religion. I say no one is wrong. Everyeon has the right to believe in what they want. AND MORE power to you for doing so.

But i also think America has evolved and allowed christmas to become so commercialized. i dont think many years ago people who didnt believe in jesus or the birth of jesus and all of what the bible and religion is about celebrated christmas. I honestly think after years and the HOLIDAY evolving with Santa and christmas trees and lights and gifts America commercialized christmas. I dont know if that is naive to say but i do think that many many years ago atheists and agnostics and other christians who dont go to church or believe in jesus and his birth actually celebrated christmas. idk if i am going to get slammed for saying that but it is my opinion. i think after years of all the materialism and displays of christmas things christmas turned into just that a SEASON for MANY and that is okay to celebrate it with family and friends to be thankful and give gifts to your loved ones etc. but i also dont agree with people who bash religions and the people who believe in them and then celebrate the holiday/religious or not.

i would feel teh same way about memorial day. you say you (universal you) hate the war and the president and the troops should get the hell out of iraq/afganastan....well then DONT celebrate memorial day because you obviously have no idea what that holiday means!!!!

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actually the pagans did celebrate december 25th and THEN christians picked up this tradition and AFTER it became about the birth of jesus so even before all this it was celebrated but before that it was recognized as the birthdate of a pagan god.

But i do agree with you about how it has become a materialistic holiday.

I dont bash it for being religious or not. No its not the actual birthdate of jesus but I have no problem with it being recognized as his birthdate, i think my problem was simply with rude comments against someones view, it was more the close minded comments. I think everyone is entitled to follow whatever they want so i will always stick up for that even if its different than my own view

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sorry i know about the pagans celebrating it first i was just meaning like christians/roman catholics were prob the only ones celebrating it that long ago....lol but yea i feel it is so commercialized now but what can you do....

and i agree with the rude comments. there is no need to bash someone religion. i mean yes some people dont believe in anything and that is fine i cant and would never expect everyone to believe in what i believe in...it just isnt right or respectful of me. and i do feel everyone is entitled to their own opinion but sadly there are close minded people in this world and i guess we have to live wiht it....

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Plus throughout time christmas was banned MANY times, even in the united states. Infact here is one thing ill quote : 'Christmas was declared a United States Federal holiday in 1870, signed into law by President Ulysses S. Grant' and this was after the US did not want to celebrate christmas for a while.

Everyone is different and has different views. I can see why people celebrate it for religious reasons and not religious reasons. I understand to some it really makes no sense but its not our lives or for us to understand

it deffinately irks me...I mean ...its CHRIST-MAS as in JESUS CHRIST!!! the whole symbolism of gift giving is to simulate the gift and sacrafice that god made by giving us his son. Even the highly commercialized aspects are derived from and symbolize the holiness of the holiday. OY...people can be silly sometimes.

ETA: I do go to church every sunday, am enrolled in RCIA, read the bible, and go to mass on christmas, i do toys for tots and any coat drives i can find and I used to do the santa letters and deliver gifts personally to the 'letters to santa' child who seemed the least materialistic of the bunch....I also make it a point to watch the nativity story and passion of the christ on christmas and easter as a reminder...so you could consider me fairly religious. It's not the celebrating that bothers me...its more of saying ur celebrating 'CHRISTMAS' if u don't believe in anything at all... i just feel like that would be like me celebrating kwanzaa or Rosh HAshonah

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

I don't know if i'm explaining myself well or just pissing people off...but if anything i said offends anyone let me know n i'll just take this post down...its deff not meant to offend...but sometimes i explain to deeply and end up offending people.

religion and politics.

any topic on either will always wind up leaving someone offended. They're just so sensitive

Oh my, I'm so happy that my post turned a really slow board into a raging conversation!! Actually, it doesnt seem as if THIS thread got as nasty as some others in the past.

I think everyone has the right to practice or not practice any religion they choose, and they also have the right to celebrate or not celebrate whatever holiday they choose for whatever reason. My only issue is with someone who is overly outspoken about hating religion, believing there is no God, Jesus, etc, celebrating the holiday.

Then again, this same person won't eat meat b/c she claims to be pro-animal, but she wears leather shoes

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Posted by Mimacat

LOL well I was so tired of seeing NOTHING going on, and I knew this would get SOMETHING started.

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you were right! hahaha

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Posted by Soon2beAlberti

it deffinately irks me...I mean ...its CHRIST-MAS as in JESUS CHRIST!!! the whole symbolism of gift giving is to simulate the gift and sacrafice that god made by giving us his son. Even the highly commercialized aspects are derived from and symbolize the holiness of the holiday. OY...people can be silly sometimes.

ETA: I do go to church every sunday, am enrolled in RCIA, read the bible, and go to mass on christmas, i do toys for tots and any coat drives i can find and I used to do the santa letters and deliver gifts personally to the 'letters to santa' child who seemed the least materialistic of the bunch....I also make it a point to watch the nativity story and passion of the christ on christmas and easter as a reminder...so you could consider me fairly religious. It's not the celebrating that bothers me...its more of saying ur celebrating 'CHRISTMAS' if u don't believe in anything at all... i just feel like that would be like me celebrating kwanzaa or Rosh HAshonah

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

I don't know if i'm explaining myself well or just pissing people off...but if anything i said offends anyone let me know n i'll just take this post down...its deff not meant to offend...but sometimes i explain to deeply and end up offending people.

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Actually the word christmas combines both christian and pagan aspects the word christ being christian and then the word 'MAS' coming from pagan rituals which is the prayers for the dead, and actually arent we not supposed to celebrate the birth?

Also jesus said he did not want people to follow ANY pagan customs but meanwhile christians did get christmas from the pagans.

and all the commercialized things such as gift giving, christmas trees and all that came from pagan rituals, some came from other cultures though that we became accustom to later on.

Is this what i choose to believe and follow strictly the answer is no but just to show that there are other views and while some look at their facts, others are looking at things from a different perspective so they have their reasons

I am not atheist but my take on them celebrating christmas is that for one they dont believe in jesus so that aspect of it means nothing to them since they don't believe it. It also is a holiday with many pagan rituals so again that can be a reason they do it.

Christmas is declared a 'FEDERAL' holiday in the united states and for many years before that was not celebrated.

I personally dont think it matters what someone follows so to say one is right over the other i wont do but maybe showing a different perspective on this topic might show others just why they do what they do and why they feel the way they do

Also forgot to mention that when certain christian orthodox people celebrate christmas in january its for the baptism of jesus and not the birth

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Posted by Soon2beAlberti

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

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why christmas? b/c that is the day my catholic family celebrates.

there are many people in the same position as me. i was brought up catholic. as i grew up, i developed my own beliefs. are you suggesting that b/c i no longer believe in the same things they do, that i should choose another day to make my celebration?

how would that phone call work?...'sorry grandma, can't make it for christmas...i've changed my beliefs so i can't celebrate with you any longer. i'm gonna celebrate my family another day.'

i don't think it's hypocritical, i think it's sharing a holiday with my family, no matter who believes in what.

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Posted by failurebydsign

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Posted by angl2001

a little off topic but...what i dont understand is how people who are so 'religious' and think they follow the 'christian way' can talk about what people should and shouldnt do....but yet they do things that are against the 'church' .Yet they are the first to say something about someone else.....FH mom does this...she talks crap about what everyone else does and judges people all the time but yet thinks she is all high and mighty and she follows 'gods rules' yet she judges everyone and everything.....THAT ANNOYS ME!

I feel if people think it is wrong to celebrate christmas and not be 'religious' then i think people who arent 100% pure and don't follow every word of the bible shouldnt either!

to each their own...celebrate or dont! its your choice

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WORD FOR WORD AGREE WITH YOU AND THAT IS WHY I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN ANYMORE

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yeah but thats not just christians...you're gonna find hypocrites in every religion.

I personally am a catholic. Am i perfect? hell no... Am I free from sin? HELL NO!, but I am a good person. I ALWAYS try to help people around me...wether its helping them carry something, opening a door, giving them money because they are short for the train or bus or a phone call...ANYTHING! my main goal in life since I was about 12 was to change somebody;s life for the better and I live my life by that. Just because I go to church and read the bible and TRY to apply ot to my daily life doesn't mean I think I'm holier than thou...nor does having an off day or slipping up make me a hypocrite...it makes us human.

the hypocrites are everywhere and you can't think you'll escape them simply by escaping the christians. I know jehovahs witnesses who go door to door, read from the watch tower and then go and snort lines of coke, cheat on their wives and then go home to beat their wives if things aren't up to standard. I know jews who are dishonest and flat out lie and use their religion or a religious holiday to back up their lie. its everywhere.

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Posted by Soon2beAlberti

it deffinately irks me...I mean ...its CHRIST-MAS as in JESUS CHRIST!!! the whole symbolism of gift giving is to simulate the gift and sacrafice that god made by giving us his son. Even the highly commercialized aspects are derived from and symbolize the holiness of the holiday. OY...people can be silly sometimes.

ETA: I do go to church every sunday, am enrolled in RCIA, read the bible, and go to mass on christmas, i do toys for tots and any coat drives i can find and I used to do the santa letters and deliver gifts personally to the 'letters to santa' child who seemed the least materialistic of the bunch....I also make it a point to watch the nativity story and passion of the christ on christmas and easter as a reminder...so you could consider me fairly religious. It's not the celebrating that bothers me...its more of saying ur celebrating 'CHRISTMAS' if u don't believe in anything at all... i just feel like that would be like me celebrating kwanzaa or Rosh HAshonah

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

I don't know if i'm explaining myself well or just pissing people off...but if anything i said offends anyone let me know n i'll just take this post down...its deff not meant to offend...but sometimes i explain to deeply and end up offending people.

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heres something i read earlier and think it makes a great point. ESPECIALLY the part about go to church instead of a mall, pray instead of gathering around a lit tree, and so on.


The most important issue behind the debates over Christmas is what the “meaning” of Christmas is or should be. Conservatives want to return to a Golden Age when the meaning of Christmas was wholly religious, uncorrupted by pagan, commercial, or secular elements. What they seek is an illusion. There are traditional meanings and religious meanings, but no 'real meaning.' The meaning of Christmas is whatever people celebrating decide to give to it.
Modern Christmas celebrations have little or nothing to do with Jesus, the Feast of the Nativity, or the Incarnation. Consider some popular Christmas traditions: erecting and decorating a tree, hanging wreaths, sending cards, drinking eggnog, giving presents, hanging mistletoe...where is Christ in all of this?

If people give it a religious meaning, it will be a religious holiday for them. If they fill the day with other meanings (gifts, family, etc.), then it will have those instead. Because the meaning of Christmas depends upon what people do with it, the only way for Christians to reclaim a religious meaning for Christmas is to personally eschew secular, pagan, and consumer activities in favor of religious ones. Give to the poor instead of to Wal-Mart. Go to church instead of a mall. Pray instead of gathering around a lit-up tree.

What they cannot do is insist that the wider culture endorse this and also shed pagan, commercial, or secular aspects of the season. They can't turn the tide of commercialization and secularization. They might convince individual Christians to turn away from it all and focus on religious aspects of a holy day, however. If enough Christians change, perhaps the culture will as well, but the focus should be on what Christians do as individuals.

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Posted by beachbum05

religion and politics.

any topic on either will always wind up leaving someone offended. They're just so sensitive

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Thats true. Those two things cause war...out in the real world and on message boards. Very touchy subjects.

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Posted by JeanetteandSteve

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Posted by Soon2beAlberti

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

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why christmas? b/c that is the day my catholic family celebrates.

there are many people in the same position as me. i was brought up catholic. as i grew up, i developed my own beliefs. are you suggesting that b/c i no longer believe in the same things they do, that i should choose another day to make my celebration?

how would that phone call work?...'sorry grandma, can't make it for christmas...i've changed my beliefs so i can't celebrate with you any longer. i'm gonna celebrate my family another day.'

i don't think it's hypocritical, i think it's sharing a holiday with my family, no matter who believes in what.

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no celebrating with your family is different though...I mean someone who just celebrates for the sake of it...like for the gifts or who knows what. I'm DEFF not saying ur a hypocrite for sharing it with your family. it wasn't directed at you OR people in your situation...nor was it meant to offend.

If I were agnostic but my family celebrated...I would go and spend time with my fam...but as far as me hosting a christmas party or putting up christmas decorations in my own home? I wouldn't do that if i claimed to be a none believer.

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Posted by Songstress1212

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Posted by beachbum05

religion and politics.

any topic on either will always wind up leaving someone offended. They're just so sensitive

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Thats true. Those two things cause war...out in the real world and on message boards. Very touchy subjects.

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I personally, will never understand why that is...people are entitled to their own beliefs, even if they are different from your own, why does it always have to get so personal? Why can't adults agree to disagree? It's just something I don't think i'll ever understand

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Posted by WinterBride08

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Posted by Songstress1212

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Posted by beachbum05

religion and politics.

any topic on either will always wind up leaving someone offended. They're just so sensitive

---

Thats true. Those two things cause war...out in the real world and on message boards. Very touchy subjects.

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I personally, will never understand why that is...people are entitled to their own beliefs, even if they are different from your own, why does it always have to get so personal? Why can't adults agree to disagree? It's just something I don't think i'll ever understand

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Unfortunately thats the way the world works and I think it will be that way til the end of time. There are people dying because of religion and politics and its sad. But theres not really anything that can be done about it.

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Posted by Songstress1212

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Posted by WinterBride08

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Posted by Songstress1212

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Posted by beachbum05

religion and politics.

any topic on either will always wind up leaving someone offended. They're just so sensitive

---

Thats true. Those two things cause war...out in the real world and on message boards. Very touchy subjects.

---

I personally, will never understand why that is...people are entitled to their own beliefs, even if they are different from your own, why does it always have to get so personal? Why can't adults agree to disagree? It's just something I don't think i'll ever understand

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Unfortunately thats the way the world works and I think it will be that way til the end of time. There are people dying because of religion and politics and its sad. But theres not really anything that can be done about it.

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this is why i never understood the whole concept of others HAVING to have the same views some take it as a personal insult to their beliefs. If someone feels differently than i do its not like I sit here and say how dare you contradict what i say and not follow the same things, it doesn't take away from my belief and i think thats when some people get mad because maybe they feel its taking away from them and all that they practice and know. We are a world with how many religions? its time we realize that there will NEVER be a time we all agree, and forget different religions there are people within the same religion who disagree. There are some who think that others are not being 'good christians' or that others give 'christians' a bad name

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Posted by Soon2beAlberti

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Posted by JeanetteandSteve

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Posted by Soon2beAlberti

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

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why christmas? b/c that is the day my catholic family celebrates.

there are many people in the same position as me. i was brought up catholic. as i grew up, i developed my own beliefs. are you suggesting that b/c i no longer believe in the same things they do, that i should choose another day to make my celebration?

how would that phone call work?...'sorry grandma, can't make it for christmas...i've changed my beliefs so i can't celebrate with you any longer. i'm gonna celebrate my family another day.'

i don't think it's hypocritical, i think it's sharing a holiday with my family, no matter who believes in what.

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no celebrating with your family is different though...I mean someone who just celebrates for the sake of it...like for the gifts or who knows what. I'm DEFF not saying ur a hypocrite for sharing it with your family. it wasn't directed at you OR people in your situation...nor was it meant to offend.

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i appreciate the response. i think i was being overly sensitive...maybe i should stop reading this thread!! lol...i get too wound up talking about such personal stuff.

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Posted by Espo22

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Posted by Songstress1212

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Posted by WinterBride08

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Posted by Songstress1212

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Posted by beachbum05

religion and politics.

any topic on either will always wind up leaving someone offended. They're just so sensitive

---

Thats true. Those two things cause war...out in the real world and on message boards. Very touchy subjects.

---

I personally, will never understand why that is...people are entitled to their own beliefs, even if they are different from your own, why does it always have to get so personal? Why can't adults agree to disagree? It's just something I don't think i'll ever understand

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Unfortunately thats the way the world works and I think it will be that way til the end of time. There are people dying because of religion and politics and its sad. But theres not really anything that can be done about it.

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this is why i never understood the whole concept of others HAVING to have the same views some take it as a personal insult to their beliefs. If someone feels differently than i do its not like I sit here and say how dare you contradict what i say and not follow the same things, it doesn't take away from my belief and i think thats when some people get mad because maybe they feel its taking away from them and all that they practice and know. We are a world with how many religions? its time we realize that there will NEVER be a time we all agree, and forget different religions there are people within the same religion who disagree. There are some who think that others are not being 'good christians' or that others give 'christians' a bad name

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Exactly. I never criticize anyone for something they believe in. Except for FH, he needs to agree with everything I say...