Ok lets start talking w/a controversial topic!

---

Posted by Mimacat

Then again, this same person won't eat meat b/c she claims to be pro-animal, but she wears leather shoes

---

I love the SUPER vegan people that do that - leather belts, etc.

---

Posted by Songstress1212

---

---

this is why i never understood the whole concept of others HAVING to have the same views some take it as a personal insult to their beliefs. If someone feels differently than i do its not like I sit here and say how dare you contradict what i say and not follow the same things, it doesn't take away from my belief and i think thats when some people get mad because maybe they feel its taking away from them and all that they practice and know. We are a world with how many religions? its time we realize that there will NEVER be a time we all agree, and forget different religions there are people within the same religion who disagree. There are some who think that others are not being 'good christians' or that others give 'christians' a bad name

---

Exactly. I never criticize anyone for something they believe in. Except for FH, he needs to agree with everything I say...

---

HAHAHAHA Joe and I disagree about ALOT of religious and political things. I like to debate things so i'll bring it up but he hates debating about it lol I can get really into and debate my side passionately and he'll think im getting all upset but i dont i can say my side say why i disagree with you but be ok with it lol...we do agree with some things

---

Posted by beachbum05

---

Posted by Mimacat

Then again, this same person won't eat meat b/c she claims to be pro-animal, but she wears leather shoes

---

I love the SUPER vegan people that do that - leather belts, etc.

---

OH GOD i hate that lol...i saw a lady protesting fur and calling an old woman a WH*RE, and the whole time the protestor had on leather boots lol. I guess cows dont count

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

I just wanna be clear...i'm not OFFENDED by what anyone else chooses to do or how they live their life, nor do I want anyone to be offended by me and how i choose to live mine. this post asked for an opinion and we all gave one, it doesn't upset me, shock me or make me judge anyone as less of a person...I'm just saying i don't get it . I clarified what i meant to jeanetteandsteve so i hope that helped u guys understand MY opinion. don't want you all to think i'm some sort of crazed bible toting comdemner ...I actually enjoy talking religion even when it is not about my own ( i used to study wicca in my younger years and also know a bit about judaism) so when I post on these threads its more to conversate and learn about other people and where they are coming from...expand my horizons so to speak, its not to preach or be mean or judge negatively...it's all adult conversation and learning for me.

---

i understand what you're saying because I also LOVE debating about things and you know what there are many times during a debate you learn something new. For me personally if someone is going to say something is wrong i would rather they state why rather than just say 'if you do this then its stupid' and then nothing else to back it up, no facts no personal views on the topic. Just a closed minded comment basically saying 'im right, everyone is wrong and thats it. That is when i get irritated

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

I just wanna be clear...i'm not OFFENDED by what anyone else chooses to do or how they live their life, nor do I want anyone to be offended by me and how i choose to live mine. this post asked for an opinion and we all gave one, it doesn't upset me, shock me or make me judge anyone as less of a person...I'm just saying i don't get it . I clarified what i meant to jeanetteandsteve so i hope that helped u guys understand MY opinion. don't want you all to think i'm some sort of crazed bible toting comdemner ...I actually enjoy talking religion even when it is not about my own ( i used to study wicca in my younger years and also know a bit about judaism) so when I post on these threads its more to conversate and learn about other people and where they are coming from...expand my horizons so to speak, its not to preach or be mean or judge negatively...it's all adult conversation and learning for me.

---

I definitely wasnt offended cause I missed your post! But Im not easily offended anyway.

---

Posted by Espo22

---

Posted by beachbum05

---

Posted by Mimacat

Then again, this same person won't eat meat b/c she claims to be pro-animal, but she wears leather shoes

---

I love the SUPER vegan people that do that - leather belts, etc.

---

OH GOD i hate that lol...i saw a lady protesting fur and calling an old woman a WH*RE, and the whole time the protestor had on leather boots lol. I guess cows dont count

---

I eat meat and wear leather but I dont wear fur coats. A lot of people call me hypocritical but my argument is I wear ONLY what I eat. I dont eat mink lol or anything else a fur coat is made out of for that matter.

---

Posted by Espo22

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

I just wanna be clear...i'm not OFFENDED by what anyone else chooses to do or how they live their life, nor do I want anyone to be offended by me and how i choose to live mine. this post asked for an opinion and we all gave one, it doesn't upset me, shock me or make me judge anyone as less of a person...I'm just saying i don't get it . I clarified what i meant to jeanetteandsteve so i hope that helped u guys understand MY opinion. don't want you all to think i'm some sort of crazed bible toting comdemner ...I actually enjoy talking religion even when it is not about my own ( i used to study wicca in my younger years and also know a bit about judaism) so when I post on these threads its more to conversate and learn about other people and where they are coming from...expand my horizons so to speak, its not to preach or be mean or judge negatively...it's all adult conversation and learning for me.

---

i understand what you're saying because I also LOVE debating about things and you know what there are many times during a debate you learn something new. For me personally if someone is going to say something is wrong i would rather they state why rather than just say 'if you do this then its stupid' and then nothing else to back it up, no facts no personal views on the topic. Just a closed minded comment basically saying 'im right, everyone is wrong and thats it. That is when i get irritated

---

yeah thats how i am...but sometimes when i try to explain the WHY of why i feel a certain way people take it personally...but there are times I've said 'well I don't agree with ___' and somebody came back and said something that made me think about it differently...and if i hadn't stated my opinion in the first place I may not have ever gotten that new point of view. I may question someones beliefs or why they do something a certain way but its never to be rude or condescending...if I'm questioning its because I'd really like to know.

---

Posted by beachbum05

---

Posted by Mimacat

Then again, this same person won't eat meat b/c she claims to be pro-animal, but she wears leather shoes

---

I love the SUPER vegan people that do that - leather belts, etc.

---

I know... if you're going to carry a Coach bag with leather trim, eat a goddam scrambled egg you damn hypocrite!!

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

---

Posted by Espo22

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

I just wanna be clear...i'm not OFFENDED by what anyone else chooses to do or how they live their life, nor do I want anyone to be offended by me and how i choose to live mine. this post asked for an opinion and we all gave one, it doesn't upset me, shock me or make me judge anyone as less of a person...I'm just saying i don't get it . I clarified what i meant to jeanetteandsteve so i hope that helped u guys understand MY opinion. don't want you all to think i'm some sort of crazed bible toting comdemner ...I actually enjoy talking religion even when it is not about my own ( i used to study wicca in my younger years and also know a bit about judaism) so when I post on these threads its more to conversate and learn about other people and where they are coming from...expand my horizons so to speak, its not to preach or be mean or judge negatively...it's all adult conversation and learning for me.

---

i understand what you're saying because I also LOVE debating about things and you know what there are many times during a debate you learn something new. For me personally if someone is going to say something is wrong i would rather they state why rather than just say 'if you do this then its stupid' and then nothing else to back it up, no facts no personal views on the topic. Just a closed minded comment basically saying 'im right, everyone is wrong and thats it. That is when i get irritated

---

yeah thats how i am...but sometimes when i try to explain the WHY of why i feel a certain way people take it personally...but there are times I've said 'well I don't agree with ___' and somebody came back and said something that made me think about it differently...and if i hadn't stated my opinion in the first place I may not have ever gotten that new point of view. I may question someones beliefs or why they do something a certain way but its never to be rude or condescending...if I'm questioning its because I'd really like to know.

---

yeah sometimes we get heated and comes out differently...i got annoyed and worded something differently earlier...i basically just try to stick to facts or personal opinions and just state them instead of saying 'you are wrong, i dont understand how you can think that' or something like that which i kinda did earlier but deleted...Majority of the time i do just state my side but it can be hard to do sometimes.

---

Posted by Mimacat

---

Posted by ant n tilde

---

Posted by Mimacat

---

Posted by ant n tilde

This is going to sound strange but this season I have been very jealous of people of other faiths. I feel that they are able to celebrate their holidays without all of this disgusting commercialism and materialism surrounding it. No one is claiming that Yom Kippur isn't religious its just a day off from school ( just to use a dumb example ). It must be refreshing to celebrate religious holidays AS religious holidays.

Yes, I do think Santa is great for kids and I love going to see the tree in Manhattan. I love picking out gifts for my family and friends because I love to see how happy they are when they open them. But more than anything I appreciate when I am in church with other people REALLY understanding and appreciating what the season is about. . .

---

I'm sure this will be met poorly, BUT, I've decided that I am not going to teach my children (if I have any) about Santa. I think that they should know from a young age that Christmas is celebrating the Birth of Christ!

Of course I'll also teach them not to spill the beans to their friends!

---

I think that is an innovative idea and I love it! I wouldn't be able to do it myself.

Maybe you can teach them about Saint Nicholas and giving gifts in his tradition or something like that

In my house on Christmas Eve the youngest child puts baby Jesus in the manger and we even sing Happy Birthday to him. We light all of the candles of advent.

On Christmas morning no one opens a single present until we go to Church in the morning and then if its not too cold we go to the cemetary. After that we wait until everyone is together until we open our gifts. No waking up at 6AM and tearing into gifts for us as children!

When I first saw the inflatable Nativity on someone's lawn I was so disgusted and offended by my super religious mom was so happy that people were actually remembering what the holiday was about - so I have become more accepting of them! We try to incorporate religious ornaments into our tree and of course we keep our Nativity set up. . .

---

In general, I do not enjoy the inflatable decorations

I actually bought my own nativity for this year, but everyone in the Holy Family is a cat. Do you think thats sacreligous? I wasn't sure! The Baby Jesus is a little orange kitten, and it was too cute not to buy!

---

I will continue reading the rest of the thread in a minute but i needed to comment on this.
I'm not sure if you're serious or not... but I love the idea.
FH and I just got our first nativity... it's a smores set. It's cute. We liked it, so we bought it and it is out on our entertainment unit with the rest of of our decorations, but right in the middle so that Jesus is the center of attention not the penguins.

I told my mother about this, and she just about died... she was so mad at me. I said 'at least there is some form of Jesus in our apartment'

I will also be putting up my Nativity that I got as a child. It's the precious moments one.

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

---

Posted by JeanetteandSteve

---

Posted by Soon2beAlberti

Although the season is cheerful and i can understand why someone not religious would want to share in it...but it seems a bit hypocritical to me because there are plenty of holidays that incorporate thanks and giving and cheerfulness and gratefulness...so why christmas?

---

why christmas? b/c that is the day my catholic family celebrates.

there are many people in the same position as me. i was brought up catholic. as i grew up, i developed my own beliefs. are you suggesting that b/c i no longer believe in the same things they do, that i should choose another day to make my celebration?

how would that phone call work?...'sorry grandma, can't make it for christmas...i've changed my beliefs so i can't celebrate with you any longer. i'm gonna celebrate my family another day.'

i don't think it's hypocritical, i think it's sharing a holiday with my family, no matter who believes in what.

---

no celebrating with your family is different though...I mean someone who just celebrates for the sake of it...like for the gifts or who knows what. I'm DEFF not saying ur a hypocrite for sharing it with your family. it wasn't directed at you OR people in your situation...nor was it meant to offend.

If I were agnostic but my family celebrated...I would go and spend time with my fam...but as far as me hosting a christmas party or putting up christmas decorations in my own home? I wouldn't do that if i claimed to be a none believer.

---

I help decorate my house with lights every year and even my bedroom ...i bring out all my rudolph stuff....my lights, my christmas villiage......but i am agnostic...i just think the stuff is cute!!! so i putit out at christmas casue it would look funny for 4th of july! lol i love christmas...for my own reasons...being with my family, and giving and getting gifts....i love the feeling of sitting around and talking about the past and the suture with them... everyone celebrates for their own reasons.....as long as we are all happy...who gives a rats asss if we are religuos or not?? thats my feeling on it! I dont wake up in the morning and say happy birthday jesus! i say merry christmas....like i said earlier chritma to me is like thanksgiving with gifts....and i like it that way!

---

Posted by Mimacat

I am serious! I just put it out tonite! Its adorable. As soon as I get my own computer back I'll take a photo and post it.

---

i can't wait to see it. I'm actually a little jealous because I was hoping there was a cat one out there so that my kitties could have their own.

i stopped reading this thread a while ago... i found myself getting upset with everyone, and not being able to pick a side lol.
I've always been confused by the picture of Santa kneeling by the baby Jesus... but my dad LOVES it. It has hung in our house every year for over 40 years.
It still makes me smile when I see it, but I think it's b/c it reminds me of my dad.
Who...in fact is somewhat large and jolly...

With all the energy we have all put into this post a during the holiday season we should all use th is energy towards good...maybe starting a food drive etc........instead of arguing......on another note ....Damn Denise you nailed every single point I could think of making !!!!!!!!

---

Posted by kellybean

With all the energy we have all put into this post a during the holiday season we should all use th is energy towards good...maybe starting a food drive etc........instead of arguing......on another note ....Damn Denise you nailed every single point I could think of making !!!!!!!!

---

lol thank you, kinda hard not to make as many points when i posted so much in the thread lol

---

Posted by JeanetteandSteve

i think it's funny that anyone would be annoyed by a non-religious person celebrating christmas.

most christians who celebrate christmas tell their kids that some big fat guy in a red suit is coming down their chimney to bring them presents. what the heck does THAT have to do with christ?! ok sure, the origin of santa is st. nicholas, a christian bishop...but what he's turned into really has nothing to do with the religious aspect of the celebration of christmas.

i was raised as a catholic, but i don't believe in it anymore. so i should give up my right to celebrate christmas? it makes me happy to get together with my family, give them gifts i've put thought into, and have that warm fuzzy feeling inside. is it so wrong that i enjoy a special day for other reasons than its original purpose?

actually, it kind of annoys me that anyone might suggest someone should have to give that up simply because their beliefs have changed. i'm not saying i believe in nothing; i do believe in SOMETHING but i think everyone is entitled to celebrate and be happy for whatever they want on that day or whatever day.

---

i totally agree with you. i shouldnt have to give up a family tradition so religious people wont be offended by the fact that i celebrate 'their' holiday. religious people don't own the day which is exactley why my family doesnt get together on March 12th or any other day like somone else posted earlier....we get together on Christmas because its a family tradition - and its not just one day for me - its a whole season - for my family and FH's family its from Thanksgiving to New Years....we enjoy the Holidays and Christmas is the climax of it all....we LOVE hanging stockings and putting up a Christmas tree, and telling the kids Santa is coming, and leaving out cookies for Santa, and surprising eachother with presents, and making lists, and putting up lights, and cooking, and getting together with family, etc. etc. So I don't think we should stop one of the most fun family traditions we have because people who are religious are bothered by it. I don't know why people feel the need to care about what other people are doing - do what makes you happy and who cares about what everyone else is doing.

If the people who are really religious hate the fact that us non religious people are celebrating and commercializing Christmas - then they should boycott the commercialized part of it and not put up Christmas lights, or a tree, or exchange gifts, or eat dinner with their family, etc. etc. (im just giving an extreme scenario - this isnt my point of view or how I feel but it seems like if they hate the FUN part of Christmas so much (the part that so many people enjoy) then they should just stick to going to church and putting up their nativity scene and lighting advent candles and celebrate only the religious part - because when they start putting up lights, trees, stocking, talking about santa, etc. etc. arent they buying into the commercialized part? and not the religious part? just something to think about.....

First off I wanna just say that I am not offended by anything that anyone said..its all a matter of opinion.

I don't get offended by athiests or agnostics joining in the fun of Christmas, because I know they must do it for SOME reason. I think many were brought up celebrating it and it becomes more of a tradition. I love seeing everyone doing good deeds around this time (buying gifts, donating money and time, just smiling at people for no reason..) regardless of why. I am religious/spiritual..so MY belief (you don't have to agree) is that God is looking down on us smiling, no matter what your religion, because you are doing something with good spirit. If it takes a commericialized holiday to make people be kind to eachother for a whole month, and brings smiles to everyones faces for a month..then I'm glad its commercialized, because I'm sure God is happy when he looks down and see's this, as it doesn't happen too oftern now-a-days. In fact, I don't care how commercialized it is, because in MY heart, its religious and I celebrate his birth..and no matter what anyone else does that is how I will be for me..I wouldn't want anyone telling me that I shouldn't do that.

It does upset me that your co-worker would bash the holiday. She can take that day and celebrate it and spend it anyway she would like, just like she can do with any other day..but to bash it and then celebrate it is a little hypocritical to me. I just think its wrong to bash anyones beliefs, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and obviously when it comes to religion people are sensitive and dedicate a part (weather big or small) to their beliefs, so why put a person down? I can totally understand explaining your reasoning on why you don't/do believe in whatever you do/don't believe. In fact, I love it because it sheds light on something maybe I wasn't aware of and I love learning more about religion. But there's no need to be judgemental or hurtful.

As far as Jesus' actual birthday being on the 25th, it's pretty obvious that it's not... but thats the day we set aside to RECOGNIZE it. I basically think you should love and celebrate and recognize Jesus and his love EVERYDAY and give little gifts of kindness wherever you can...but Christmas is a day that is a little commercialized and I don't think thats all together a bad thing. It's a day where we can over-exagerate our love in silly/cute little ways as well as religious ways. Why can't we mix fun with faith?

I guess you can say I have a few differant views. I was raised Catholic but when I was a teenager I attended Christian church and really liked the way things were done and how I felt there. I'll say I'm Christian/Catholic but in my heart I'm a mixture of religions. Honestly, I've always felt that God put your beliefs in your heart for a reason..and whatever those beliefs are, they are right. Just follow your heart!!!!

---

Posted by bemyyoko
I will continue reading the rest of the thread in a minute but i needed to comment on this.
I'm not sure if you're serious or not... but I love the idea.
FH and I just got our first nativity... it's a smores set. It's cute. We liked it, so we bought it and it is out on our entertainment unit with the rest of of our decorations, but right in the middle so that Jesus is the center of attention not the penguins.

I told my mother about this, and she just about died... she was so mad at me. I said 'at least there is some form of Jesus in our apartment'

I will also be putting up my Nativity that I got as a child. It's the precious moments one.

---

can u please post a pic of this? i'd love LOVE to see it!! smores.. as in chocolate marshmellows and graham crackers? i can't even imagine what that must look like..

---

Posted by CNC4eva3402

First off I wanna just say that I am not offended by anything that anyone said..its all a matter of opinion.

I don't get offended by athiests or agnostics joining in the fun of Christmas, because I know they must do it for SOME reason. I think many were brought up celebrating it and it becomes more of a tradition. I love seeing everyone doing good deeds around this time (buying gifts, donating money and time, just smiling at people for no reason..) regardless of why. I am religious/spiritual..so MY belief (you don't have to agree) is that God is looking down on us smiling, no matter what your religion, because you are doing something with good spirit. If it takes a commericialized holiday to make people be kind to eachother for a whole month, and brings smiles to everyones faces for a month..then I'm glad its commercialized, because I'm sure God is happy when he looks down and see's this, as it doesn't happen too oftern now-a-days. In fact, I don't care how commercialized it is, because in MY heart, its religious and I celebrate his birth..and no matter what anyone else does that is how I will be for me..I wouldn't want anyone telling me that I shouldn't do that.

It does upset me that your co-worker would bash the holiday. She can take that day and celebrate it and spend it anyway she would like, just like she can do with any other day..but to bash it and then celebrate it is a little hypocritical to me. I just think its wrong to bash anyones beliefs, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and obviously when it comes to religion people are sensitive and dedicate a part (weather big or small) to their beliefs, so why put a person down? I can totally understand explaining your reasoning on why you don't/do believe in whatever you do/don't believe. In fact, I love it because it sheds light on something maybe I wasn't aware of and I love learning more about religion. But there's no need to be judgemental or hurtful.

As far as Jesus' actual birthday being on the 25th, it's pretty obvious that it's not... but thats the day we set aside to RECOGNIZE it. I basically think you should love and celebrate and recognize Jesus and his love EVERYDAY and give little gifts of kindness wherever you can...but Christmas is a day that is a little commercialized and I don't think thats all together a bad thing. It's a day where we can over-exagerate our love in silly/cute little ways as well as religious ways. Why can't we mix fun with faith?

I guess you can say I have a few differant views. I was raised Catholic but when I was a teenager I attended Christian church and really liked the way things were done and how I felt there. I'll say I'm Christian/Catholic but in my heart I'm a mixture of religions. Honestly, I've always felt that God put your beliefs in your heart for a reason..and whatever those beliefs are, they are right. Just follow your heart!!!!

---

beautifully said