Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Original post by Xelindrya

Mar 01, 2004 05:39 PM

I don't mean does it matter to you that YOU have higher education. The question is do you react when finding out someone else's education level.

For example you mean this complete idiot. heh.. Not just acts stupid but REALLY REALLY is a bit on the slow side. Not dumb just not sharp if that makes sense. The type you have to truly draw a picture for, literally (I do this at my job). You know, write down the numbers so they see that 2 plus 2 really does add up. Then you find out this person has a BA in Math.

Does this make you think:
1- Oh maybe it was just an off day because someone as educated as that can't possibly NOT grasp simple things like this. It must be a mistake or my fault for not explaning myself clearly.

Or

2- Get the name of that school so my children won't apply!!!!

Same goes in reverse. Ever meet someone who is very well spoken and has a good knowledge base. You know the sharp type. Never needs further explanations just 'gets' it and absorbs new tasks easily. Then you find out this person only has a GED or HS Diploma and think:
1- You lose a bit of respect for that person. They just aren't as bright as you thought, probably just luck or this stuff is REALLY easy anyhow.

or

2- Shame they didnt finish school, they already have so much going for them. I know fools with less practical use of their brains with higher educations. Shame shame shame but I won't think less of them. Instead I applaud them for getting so far and not stopping.

Just curious what the reaction is.

Lunatrek Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:08 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

No, it makes absolutely no difference to me whatsoever. You can be a genius without a college education.

For those of you that chose the 1st answer to the poll... what do you base the type of education on?? For example, what about someone who has a degree in Art or Music? Does that mean they are not as well-rounded and/or educated as someone who has a more traditional degree in say, Business or Accounting?

kel2004 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:12 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

I think that college isn't for everybody. A lot of people have skills that I will never have, and they've never gone to college.

One thing that really frustrates me, though, are the people at my company who have been working here since they graduated from high school, and are making a lot more than I am. So instead of incurring debt in student loans, I could have just been working here all that time, and I would be making more now.

Obviously I don't regret the time spent in college, it's just that one thing that really gets to me sometimes...

xjulietx Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:23 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

I will agree that college is not for everyone. My mom has her BA and my dad never went to college, BUT my dad served in the Army for two years and also studied music privately. While I don't feel that a traditional college education is a true representation of one's intellect, I believe that the initiative to pursue some form of higher education, whether it be trade school, military or weekend seminars, shows a desire to better oneself, thus making me feel they are 'better' than those who are content in ignorance.

Sassyz75 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:33 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Of course you can be successful without a college degree- but I think it's harder to get your foot in the door.. more power to the people who can- those people I think are REALLY smart.. makes me wonder how crazy they would be WITH the degree (probably to smart to tolerate).

when I met my DH he didn't have a BA.. he had dropped out. Not b/c he isn't 'book smart' but b/c he is lazy and doesn't like anything that is a hassle... well- he's in shool now and will have his AA by the end of the year and a BA in 2... we'll graduate together, him with his BA and me with my MBA...

I value education- not for what it 'gets you' in terms of salary/benefits- but what it does for you- in terms of your outlook in life, of the world, of yourself... that's worth more than anything.

Xelindrya Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:38 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by kel2004
One thing that really frustrates me, though, are the people at my company who have been working here since they graduated from high school, and are making a lot more than I am. So instead of incurring debt in student loans, I could have just been working here all that time, and I would be making more now.

Obviously I don't regret the time spent in college, it's just that one thing that really gets to me sometimes...

LOL
funny cause it frustrates me that they automatically pay the grad students here more than people with experience at my office.

They've point blank said I can NOT go any higher in my position until I get a degree. Odd thing is I've been busy (wedding and stuff) so they MADE a new position and promoted me to that. With the condition I start school this year.

I get annoyed that some grad students here act like they know their Sh!t and I'm just a fool cause I didnt finish college. My feeling is hey.. you spent 7 years in school, I spent 7 years in the industry working my fingers to the bone. I know more than you do about this job. When you learn as much as I do and get to the same level you'll get paid more that I'm getting paid now for my level BECAUSE you have the degree.

THAT's unfair in my mind. All things being equal -- Same work, same experience, same level, the ONLY difference is a piece of paper.. and they get paid more than those without that piece of paper.

JMO

kel2004 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:43 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

THAT's unfair in my mind. All things being equal -- Same work, same experience, same level, the ONLY difference is a piece of paper.. and they get paid more than those without that piece of paper.

JMO

I'd like to think that the four years I spent in college, plus one year of grad school, amounts to more than just a piece of paper.

NYCHICK Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:46 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

I agree Veronica. A piece of paper is nothing compared to experience in my book. This is coming from a person who is getting a ba and starting grad school in the fall...............i am such a traitor

BoogieDownBride Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:48 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

I usually don’t judge anyone based on their level of education. Neither of my parents finished college and they are two of the smartest people I know. And my FH didn’t finish his BA either, and I think he’s brilliant. When I first met him, and didn’t know him very well, it bothered me a little that he didn’t go to school, but after getting to know him, I realized he was a lot more intelligent that most of the people I met at my college…

Becky Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:55 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by kel2004

THAT's unfair in my mind. All things being equal -- Same work, same experience, same level, the ONLY difference is a piece of paper.. and they get paid more than those without that piece of paper.

JMO

I'd like to think that the four years I spent in college, plus one year of grad school, amounts to more than just a piece of paper.

Amen to that!!! Seven years of college is much more significant than the peices of paper I have to show for it. Plus, I worked all through college and law school.

During my first year in law school, I worked for a company where noone had more than a high school education and they ALL gave me a very hard time about having a BA and being in law school. One woman would look me right in the face and say 'People who graduated from college think they know everything, like they are so much smarter than everyone else' at least once a week.

I don't judge people on their education level, but I am also not going to let someone make me feel bad about what I have accomplished or diminish the importance of the pieces of paper that I worked very hard for.

kel2004 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:57 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

I don't judge people on their education level, but I am also not going to let someone make me feel bad about what I have accomplished or diminish the importance of the pieces of paper that I worked very hard for.

Thank you Becky!! That is exactly what I was trying to say.

BMD'sPeanut Posted: Mar 02, 2004 09:59 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by Becky

Posted by kel2004

THAT's unfair in my mind. All things being equal -- Same work, same experience, same level, the ONLY difference is a piece of paper.. and they get paid more than those without that piece of paper.

JMO

I'd like to think that the four years I spent in college, plus one year of grad school, amounts to more than just a piece of paper.

Amen to that!!! Seven years of college is much more significant than the peices of paper I have to show for it. Plus, I worked all through college and law school.

During my first year in law school, I worked for a company where noone had more than a high school education and they ALL gave me a very hard time about having a BA and being in law school. One woman would look me right in the face and say 'People who graduated from college think they know everything, like they are so much smarter than everyone else' at least once a week.

I don't judge people on their education level, but I am also not going to let someone make me feel bad about what I have accomplished or diminish the importance of the pieces of paper that I worked very hard for.

I worked at a place while in college where the two girls always made jokes about the fact that I was in school.
HELLO?! They were fired for not being able to get along with anyone. HA HA HA HA HA HA

Note: I also agree that my experiences in school and work add up to more than just the 'piece of paper' I have to show for it...And why shouldn't I make more money than someone who didn't go to school?

TwoBugs Posted: Mar 02, 2004 10:05 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by BoogieDownBride

Posted by Lisa Rose

Posted by BoogieDownBride

Posted by TwoBugs

It took her 7 years to get a BA....?

TwoBugs, I was thinking the same...

It took me 10 years.....when you work full time and go to school part time and can only take 2 classes a semester it can take you that long....but I did it and that is all that matters to me now...

I meant no offense...part-time didn't occur to me for some reason...

Same here....sorry for being ignorant, Lisa Rose.

Xelindrya Posted: Mar 02, 2004 10:12 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by CIMINOK

Note: I also agree that my experiences in school and work add up to more than just the 'piece of paper' I have to show for it...And why shouldn't I make more money than someone who didn't go to school?

This comment isnt directed at anyone specifically but Ciminok was the last quote on this.

Why shouldnt you get more money? (you being general) but *I* (as an uneducated fool) work just as hard or harder than they do and I have the same end work product. At least in my industry ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL. If the end product is still the same. If I could shield the identy of the worker and you can't honestly say one is better than the other... Than yes. I find it unfair to give more money to the person with the piece paper.

Im not meaning to belittle a higher education. Afterall I'm still seeking to complete mine because *I* want to not because I get more money. For me, personally, it's just a thorn in my side that I didnt complete something I started.

I found it ironic that I can now test out of stuff based on my 'life experiences' and professional designations. Which means my WORK experience *is* equal to the college book learned.

I guess what Im saying is.. look at the work and make a determination on salary not the worker. Afterall same goes for the infamous Glass Ceiling.

steph4777 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 11:31 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by CIMINOK

Note: I also agree that my experiences in school and work add up to more than just the 'piece of paper' I have to show for it...And why shouldn't I make more money than someone who didn't go to school?

I agree completely.

I will the first person to say that there are things that I took in college that I will never use in my career. I believe going to college and getting a degree is a test of endurance and dedication. To see if one can set a goal, like getting a degree, and accomplishing it in a specific timeframe.

I am not knocking people who decide to work and get experience. But for whatever reason that person decided not to go to school, it's not my fault if they don't get a promotion or a raise. I'm by no means saying that just bc a person has a degree that they automatically should have everything either. The performance of an employee should definitely be one of the most, if not the most, important factor in deciding raises and promotions.

Sassyz75 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 11:44 AM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

not only performance, but what FUTURE benefit can you expect from someone?? I believe (and flame me if you want) that 99.9% of the time you can expect more diversity from those with degrees and advanced degrees- b/c 9 times out of 10, those people have had to learn diverse types of information (math, science, language, etc) and to me, that shows that they are diverse and versatile and can process and learn a variety of information that could potentially make them an asset to a corporation in a role different from that they were hired later down the road.

Xelindrya Posted: Mar 02, 2004 01:24 PM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by Sassyz75

not only performance, but what FUTURE benefit can you expect from someone?? I believe (and flame me if you want) that 99.9% of the time you can expect more diversity from those with degrees and advanced degrees- b/c 9 times out of 10, those people have had to learn diverse types of information (math, science, language, etc) and to me, that shows that they are diverse and versatile and can process and learn a variety of information that could potentially make them an asset to a corporation in a role different from that they were hired later down the road.

I can see that from your standpoint.

But instead I see grad students coming to my company learning what they need and LEAVING because they have that piece of paper and their experience and can leave.

Those of us with 'just' experience have made mistakes and learned from them. We are more likely to stay because ... lets face it for my industry this is it. It's not like I can change and get paid the same. I dont have that advantage. I think it's too vague to say that a college grad is more diverse than an non grad. Im diverse because I've been in three fields of my industry and worked in two very odd states for my industry. *shrug*

Each case is different.

TwoBugs Posted: Mar 02, 2004 01:30 PM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by Xelindrya

Each case is different.

I think that's entirely the point. I can't make a blanket statement on whether a degree makes you more suitable for a job, because - in most cases - it's all about the person.

alina Posted: Mar 02, 2004 01:54 PM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

Posted by Xelindrya

Posted by Sassyz75

not only performance, but what FUTURE benefit can you expect from someone?? I believe (and flame me if you want) that 99.9% of the time you can expect more diversity from those with degrees and advanced degrees- b/c 9 times out of 10, those people have had to learn diverse types of information (math, science, language, etc) and to me, that shows that they are diverse and versatile and can process and learn a variety of information that could potentially make them an asset to a corporation in a role different from that they were hired later down the road.

I can see that from your standpoint.

But instead I see grad students coming to my company learning what they need and LEAVING because they have that piece of paper and their experience and can leave.

Those of us with 'just' experience have made mistakes and learned from them. We are more likely to stay because ... lets face it for my industry this is it. It's not like I can change and get paid the same. I dont have that advantage. I think it's too vague to say that a college grad is more diverse than an non grad. Im diverse because I've been in three fields of my industry and worked in two very odd states for my industry. *shrug*

Each case is different.

Veronica, do you think the grads are leaving your company b/c the competitive jobs are just not there for them? Perhaps is not the problems with grads leaving the company, but a problem with company?

I also think that Sassyz is right in saying that college experience is intended to give you breadth of experience in different subjects. And while work experience counts, most of the time, the skill sets gained at each job can be similar to each other.

For example, I have been in 2 sub-fields within finance, and while they're different, much of the skills are still the same.

I would give strong preference to the candidate with a degree if I had to make a hiring decision, unless their work experience is just totally amazing (which you usually don't see)

Maribelle7777 Posted: Mar 02, 2004 02:13 PM

Re: Spinoff of Ciminok's Education Post: Does it matter to you?

I've met people who are street smart or have common sense yet never went to college and have met those with PhD's and I wonder how they live day to day in this world.

My FH only went to secondary school in Ireland and to a trade school for cooking (and even that was an accelerated course - 6 months worth) yet he's very intelligent. My sister has her master's and sometimes I don't get her at all. LOL

It all depends on the person. A h.s. graduate can be very well read and yet a college graduate can be not too bright about things.
Or vice versa.