Atheist group objects to steel 'cross' at Ground Zero
'This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult'
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
A steel beam in the symmetrical shape of a cross — a remnant from the World Trade Center wreckage — has drawn criticism from an atheist group, which objects to the artifact being kept at Ground Zero as a religious emblem. The trade center site is owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the bistate governmental agency that also operates the region’s three major airports and bridges and tunnels connecting the two states.
“Many people who died on September 11 weren’t Christian. There were Jews, Muslims, and atheists who died,” Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper for Monday’s editions. “This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult to everyone who doesn’t believe in that particular religion.”
Johnson and her group, founded by the late Madelyn Murray O’Hare, is considering a lawsuit to prevent the beam from becoming part of any permanent memorial to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
The beam was discovered two days after the attacks by construction worker Frank Silecchia as he searched for survivors.
A Franciscan priest, the Rev. Brian Jordan, blessed the cross and used it for months as a gathering place to celebrate Sunday Mass for ground zero workers and family members.
The names of fallen police officers and firefighters were also scribbled on the cross, along with the message “May God forgive their evil.”
Almost two years later, the 20-foot cross remains along Church Street, the eastern border of the 16-acre site. A petition was undertaken to make it a part of a permanent memorial.
The Lower Manhattan Development Corp., a city-state group overseeing the rebuilding of the area, has made no decisions on what a ground zero memorial would include.
Originally published on September 8, 2003
prncssrachel
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You know what, that cross was found that way. It's not that someone constructed it. I can see being offended if someone MADE it, but it just happened that way. But on the other hand, while some people have very strong beliefs in god, others are more than within their rights to NOT believe in god, and I can kind of see their point. BUT to consider legal action is disgusting. It was a terrible tragedy and I think that cross has made people feel like they have something to look to, and that, in itself, is more important than the meaning of the cross.
Misty
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Re: This infuriates me
The statement that ****es me off the most is this one:
“This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult to everyone who doesn’t believe in that particular religion.”
#1 If they are aethiests, why do they care? #2 Do they really believe that something that gave the people that were down there strength while pulling out body parts of men women and children found this cross in the rubble as an 'advertisement'? #3 Show me one family member who lost someone who isn't Christian that thinks it should be taken down. #4 During the holiday season, there was a menorah and a Christmas Tree up at Ground Zero #5 Have we become so PC that this is what we have to fight over now??????
Jordan
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I do NOT think a cross should be erected on the site unless they were going to erect other symbols to represent EVERYONE who perished and not just a select religious group. The beam could have been made into something else that is representative of ALL who perished and ALL who were heroes that day and months to follow - instead of a religious symbol. I am **** tired of Christianity infiltrating every thing in this country.
As for a lawsuit, while it may be tactless, they are within their rights to file it.
What-Now
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The best tribute to those parished on 9/11 would be a new better/taller/ more powerfull financial complex built on the site. The kind that would say: you tried to bring us down, by attacking the heart of USA financial center, but we built a better one! HA!' It would be nice if it included a small, tasteful memorial site. JMO
And I think cross in def NOT the way to go!
Xelindrya
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Re: This infuriates me
Yep.. the Minority is now the Majority.. the idea of ticking off 10 people outweighs giving peace and comfort to thousands of others.
God bless America and it's never ending strive to be fair and equal to everyone regardless of race, religion or other opinions.
How do I feel? *heavy sigh* is all I can think of.
Aethiest who truly believe no such higher being exists can be offended by the constant mockery and forced acceptance of something they believe as total brainwashing. I can see this, but is it really hurting anyone? I mean are they so 'hurt' and offended by the cross?
Im sure you may find several relatives who prefer for the cross not to be there.. who aren't aethiest or christian Per se... but it doesnt mean they'd fight to have it removed.
Being a Texan.. I have NEVER seen a Menorah stay up so long as they do in NY. Freaks me out. I thought that was a like an 8 day thing.. not a seasonal burning of candles.. that ALWAYS confuses me and uproar caused by even the idea of taking it down. Odd. people find offense in anything they want.
Personally.. Im more worried about them putting that cross up and other religions saying they weren't represented... and next thing you know it becomes a religious free for all and the memorial looks like a sick advertisement for Gods-R-Us.
Leave the cross it survived that way. End of story.. the Aethiests can consider it scrap metal, Christians consider it holy and others just a symbol of strength.
Just LOVE how we make things complicated here. Especially when it comes the multitude of religions or non-religions we have.
ETA: Personally a piece of twisted metal whether in cross form or any other isn't the true spirit of the day. I don't need scrap metal to realize the scale of what happened that day. JMHO
1. If they are atheists, why do they care? I care about the influence of religion (any religion) on our government...I see another side of people who discriminate/make fun of/think less of atheists b/c they do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God...I choose not to have religion in my life and the Constitution protects that right...and makes a point of separating church from state. many times groups fight for somethings, not b/c they are trying to take away something...but there is a history in this world that once you let the powers that be do a little thing...they will start doing bigger things...that are harder to fight (the cliche 'give them an inch...they'll take a mile' is a cliche for a reason)
2. HOWEVER!! in this situation I would not really be upset about it...IF they made it into a memorial b/c it is part of the wreckage...that it is not specifically said...this is a cross...I think when the priest saw it...he took an opportunity to help counsel his followers...and I don't think there is anything wrong with that...its like looking into the clouds and seeing shapes in them...
jessnjoey
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Last I remember Americans have the freedom of speech and expression... Whether we leave up menorahs, christmas trees, crosses or any other religious effects (self or naturally created) We have the right to do so!
Misty
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I am just trying to see why and how everyone can't look past the obvious here. I mean, look a little deeper. How exactly is this an attempt at having Christianity infiltrate anything? This was found why they were pulling bodies from the rubble, and it was one of the only things left standing after everything else fell. The men that found it found strength in it to keep digging. And I am Jewish, and I just don't have a single qualm about this being up. Maybe I'm alone in this...I don't know. I just don't see how a lawsuit or a fight over something so completely innocent and mindful is necessary or appropriate. More so than the supposed 'inappropriateness' of a cross being at the site. I don't look at the cross as something negative, I look at it as wow...the found a cross standing completely erect on the site...and it really must mean something very very special to everyone down there who believe.
If it gives an ounce of strength to even one person who lost someone, regardless of their religious persuasion...than it's worth having it up forever. That is ALL I am thinking about here, the people that are suffering every single day with the tremendous loss of life in their lives...and giving them even an OUNCE of ease.
ETA: Thank you Yabbo....I didn't see that, and your explanation is a fair and very just one, and my question, rather cynical. I apologize.
What-Now
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oh, Misty, people are pressing charges agains everyone and anyone these days! keeps the masses amused!
And while I agree about the cross being unappropriate, I don't think a lawsuit is neccesary! But, hey, that's just me!
Wendy
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Re: This infuriates me
Wow!! CP kind of harsh words don't you think? Especially since the cross was not 'Erected' on the site. It is a piece of the wreckage and the way the Trade Center fell it just happened to leave the piece in the shape of a cross. While it is true that a cross itself is not representative of ALL of the people who perished, the fact that it is a remant of the Trade Center is representative of ALL those who died.
It's a shame that something that gave comfort to many and is a rememberance to many, many more is being used in this way. What a waste of time, money and energy. I am sure that families of those lost would really appreciate knowing that their loved ones died so the Atheists could sue over a piece of the wreckage. Ridiculous.
Misty
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Wendy...BRAVO!
prncssrachel
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Re: This infuriates me
Honestly, I am not catholic anymore because of a whole slew of issues with the church, and maybe it's because I don't really have a place in my life for religion, but it doesn't bother me that there is a cross there. But what I DO think, is that all representation should be welcome and anyone else who wants to add something to the site should be able to.
What-Now
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I was just thinking...A cross is basically just two sticks that fell over each other and crossed. With all the stuff that was coming down, isn't it inevitable that out of 30million long straight object that fell down two would cross each other in that manner? Why is it being looked at as a 'miracle'?
Misty
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Re: This infuriates me
I don't think it's being look at as a 'miracle' persay...but just something that was an odd coincidence that meant something to the ground zero workers, and the victims families who came there to pray every day. It was the only set of beams left standing upright, and it was in the perfect shape of a cross. More were found, but they were all knocked over, one was sent to a church in my area and is also on display.
Ever see along the highway or any street where a car accident occured where someone may have been killed...how family and friends sometimes put up makeshift memorials in the place where they died? Flowers, notes, etc....This is what this was/is at Ground Zero...
shelzyp
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Yabbobay - I wholeheartedly agree with you!
While the cross does not bother me, I do understand why it would bother people.
prncssrachel
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Well, I just think that many people found comfort in it at the time, I mean, what is ANYTHING if we really think about it? I mean, things only have value if we give that value to it. So maybe THIS cross just has a comfort value to the survivors and the family of the victims.
Misty
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Rachel...that's exactly my point. If it gave any of these poor people who lost sons/daughters/moms dads comfort...don't we owe this very very little bit to them right now?
prncssrachel
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Oh, I agree. Now, if it were surivivors or family members of victims that wanted its removal, I think their wishes should be respected, but it seems to be just a group of people using it for their platform. WHILE THEY ARE IN THEIR RIGHT TO USE IT THAT WAY, I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT IT IS UP TO THE SURVIVORS AND THE FAMILY MEMBERS OF THE VICTIMS TO DECIDED WHETHER OR NOT THE CROSS SHOULD STAY. Ok, that's my piece.
shelzyp
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Re: This infuriates me
Do we know that people has not contacted this atheist group for help on this issue, or that those individuals were not personally affected by the attacks?
