the idea is that if a precedent is started...other religion can enter governemtn property but just stating a precedent...
I don't know much about this group's stand...but I would imagine that it is stopping a precedent...
nycchic_24
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Re: This infuriates me
All I have to say is go Wendy and Misty!
You have got to be kidding me??!?!?!?!?
I am open to all opinions and points all the time but this time, I am sorry.
I feel Wendy has said it the best.
Why not just leave it as a peaceful sign??!? Everything is always turned into politics and a means for one group or another to get their panties in a bunch!
ThreeTwenty
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Re: This infuriates me
I also agree with Wendy and Misty....
It is a piece of rubble that resembles a cross. It now bears the names of many lost in that tragedy. I think the families of the lost would appreciate leaving it up.
I think it's disgusting that people would even argue over this, no less bring a law suit.....
MrsTC
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Re: This infuriates me
i think the cross was a sign that Jesus was there that day ....i was raised catholic and that's my belief. We are all entitled to our beliefs.
But why, I don't understand, why would these atheists want to take away something that brought comfort, as many of you stated earlier? Why do they have to make a POINT to take that away? Makes no sense to me....
they should take a long walk off a short pier.... take your opinions somewhere else where 9 million people did not have to live through hell for a day....
ChristineC68
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Re: This infuriates me
ThreeTwenty - It seems people can argue about ANYTHING.
The fact that a preist blessed the cross changes this piece of rubble into a religious symbol that would offend a lot of people.
I understand that the cross gave a lot of people a lot of strength and hope and by all means let it represent that, but maybe not all that perished.
Personally, I doesn't bother me at all.
BriarRose
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Re: This infuriates me
While perhaps a lawsuit is not the most sensitive way to go about it, what other avenues could have been pursued to contest the placement of the metal object?
While I myself am a devout anti catholic. I do not find the symbol offensive or innapropriate One of the reasons religon exists is for people to feel strong or gather strength in times of need. And I cannot think of a better time.
America is made up of arguers that's what we do, hec we're doing right now!! Having a peaceful disagreement on our points of view.
Should our way of life cease to exist because it might be offensive to someone? Even in the wake of a great tragedy?
Okay on another note I just wanted to say:
And on each anniversary of 9/11 and each journey I make to that hallowed ground.
I will be thinking of you ladies that lost your friends and loved ones, that walked home in utter chaos, that spent hours in agony, hoping, praying, screaming, crying.
I will not be thinking of a cross or a star but merely of the prescious loves, lives and futures that were forever lost.
And I will marvel at your courage and your unbreakable spirit.
Jordan
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Re: This infuriates me
I care about the influence of religion (any religion) on our government...I see another side of people who discriminate/make fun of/think less of atheists b/c they do not believe in the Judeo-Christian God...I choose not to have religion in my life and the Constitution protects that right...and makes a point of separating church from state. many times groups fight for somethings, not b/c they are trying to take away something...but there is a history in this world that once you let the powers that be do a little thing...they will start doing bigger things...that are harder to fight (the cliche 'give them an inch...they'll take a mile' is a cliche for a reason).
Yabbobay, you've said it perfectly and I couldn't agree more with you.
Wendy, no, I don't think I said anything harsh - I said what I believe. I also didn't say it was erected, I said I felt it shouldn't be.
I really don't think this is a 'PC issue' but rather another instance where people are just fed up with those who take a mile when given an inch. There were lots of beams recovered that day and days that followed...why bless the beam that looks like a cross and then forge to erect it as part of a memorial representing those who died on September 11th? Like I said, I think the lawsuit is tactless and I'm sure it wasn't just coincidence that it's getting press now...but I still don't think a cross should be on the site.
nycchic_24
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Re: This infuriates me
Not for nothing but did any other beam fall into a 'religious position'??? Did we take those other beams down and just leave the cross?!?!?! No we did not. This fell this way and as another said..why are people trying to take something away that may bring people some sort of comfort?? Isnt there already enough pain..
I know the cross is a religious symbol but you would think that on a day like this, it would be seen as a sign of togetherness instead of being separate.
I say let it be...why would people make 9/11 about this?!?!?!
ChristineC68
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Re: This infuriates me
Yes the cross was found that way, but of all the beams they found, why memorialize the one the one that resemebles a christian symbol and was blessed by a priest?
nycchic_24
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Re: This infuriates me
Because it fell as something...
I dont understand that answer but you know I love ya Christine! LOL
jannshari
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Re: This infuriates me
So, just to play devil's advocate....a close friend of mine lost her cousin on 9/11. He was a firefighter. His unveiling was this past weekend, and members of his fire company, I believe, created a monument to him made out of steel and rubble from the WTC. The monument is a Star of David. His family wants to donate it to the site. I would imagine that anyone who feels it is OK to have the 'cross' there (and I put that in quotes only because it was circumstances that created it, not manual labor for that specific purpose) would have no problem with a Jewish star being there? I'm sure nobody would openly say (at least not here) that it's OK to have a cross there and not a Jewish star, but I'm wondering if anyone who feels as adamantly about the cross would feel as adamantly if it were the Jewish star only. I also imagine that no one who advocates the cross would openly say that the Jewish star could not be placed there as well, i.e., next to the cross.
I have my own thoughts on this...and again, I am playing the devil's advocate and I'm not looking for a fight (perhaps just open dialogue and debate at worst), so please don't think that was my purpose if/when you respond. Food for thought, if you will.
ChristineC68
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Re: This infuriates me
Noreen - what I meant was that there were literally tons of beams/twisted metal that was escavated or recovered in a shape of some form. And of all of these - the one in the shape of a cross that was blessed is the one they want to keep. That doesnt fairly represent everyone. Love ya too:D
Jannshari - I am sort playing devil's advocate also. I am sure that if only a Star of David was found some other group would be equally offended.
I would love it if there was one universal symbol that could represent all races, nations, religions, etc. But that's no where near the case and I think there could be a more abstract memorial to represnt the victims, rescue workers and workers that cleared ground zero.
nycchic_24
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Re: This infuriates me
ETA: Personally a piece of twisted metal whether in cross form or any other isn't the true spirit of the day. I don't need scrap metal to realize the scale of what happened that day. JMHO
IMO...this speaks for itself over and over again!
I just do not understand why everything is always a cause for a lawsuit, fight, PC debate...
Remember and know what the day is about..I am sure all those who lost a loved one do and always will.
I wish it were as easy as a piece of metal...look at the depth of that day and every day since then and those to come.
ChristineC68
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Re: This infuriates me
Remember and know what the day is about..I am sure all those who lost a loved one do and always will. I wish it were as easy as a piece of metal...look at the depth of that day and every day since then and those to come.
That's exactly the point! Well said Noreen!
ThreeTwenty
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Re: This infuriates me
I'm definitely not a huge fan of the representatives of Catholicism (priests, pope) but I do believe in the religion itself and take offense to negative comments about this 'cross'. I think the families of the victims whose names are on it should decide its fate.
I think it is disgusting for anyone to make a lawsuit out of this............
It was not erected, the metal fell in such a way it formed a cross, and being Jewish and Christian myself, I think everything happens for a purpose and that was God's way of giving Comfort to the people who died and their families that he is 'with them' if names are written on this it should be left alone, Im sure the names include those of christians and non christians a like and I do not think the victims families would object to a cross or a star of david but that is just my opinion
these victims families have enough to grieve and deal with and should not have to hear or read of a law suit that offends a small group of people, it is insensitive of the group to start such a suit.
eta: I do not view it as an advertisment! that is a stupid thing for them to claim, it was not erected and is not advertised
Stacey1403
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Re: This infuriates me
If this 'symbol' gives one person that lost a love one hope, well then that's enough for me.
allure
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I beleive the world depends on symbols and this is just another one that people affected by such a tragedy look to for comfort
june262004
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Re: This infuriates me
i agree with stacey
LizD
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I just want to say, that 9/11 happened because of what is and has been (At least to the attackers) a religious fight(war). People believing one religion is 'right' and all others are 'wrong'. This is actually why most wars have been fought. All this fighting over a piece of metal that is in the shape of a cross, is it necessary? Aren't there more important issues that are in need of our time and attention and our passion such as hunger & battered children. You can see it here, there are harsh words being flung at each other on both sides of the issue. Isn't this how these wars began, words that escalated to fighting and death? Just something to think about!
