What if you never received...

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Posted by Goldi1021

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Posted by oct.2004bride


Thanks..I guess when my dad passes away...he is COVERED

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If he lived a good life, and passed his knowledge, intelligence and a good heart to his children, then I would imagine he would be 'covered' by any and all G-ds. But I love your terminology. It made me smile.

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YES he did

Of course a bat mitzvah is a very real ceremony! But it isn't something that's done in orthodoxy, so you're not breaking any rules by not doing it. Girls don't traditionall have that ceremony, and have less religious requirements in general.


ETA: I'm sorry i don't know how to express what I'm saying.

Bat Mitzvah's are a recent thing. Traditionally it was something boys did only, and then recently as there was a movement toward egalitarianism, the bat mitzvah was introduced. For boys it's seen as more of a requirement because it makes them able to become part of a minyan, etc, but women are never allowed to be part of a minyan, so it isn't as important 'legally'. It is equally important spiritually, but not as important legally. For women, it's not a legally enforced thing..

Am I making sense now?

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Posted by marymoon

Of course a bat mitzvah is a very real ceremony! But it isn't something that's done in orthodoxy, so you're not breaking any rules by not doing it. Girls don't traditionall have that ceremony, and have less religious requirements in general.


ETA: I'm sorry i don't know how to express what I'm saying.

Bat Mitzvah's are a recent thing. Traditionally it was something boys did only, and then recently as there was a movement toward egalitarianism, the bat mitzvah was introduced. For boys it's seen as more of a requirement because it makes them able to become part of a minyan, etc, but women are never allowed to be part of a minyan, so it isn't as important 'legally'. It is equally important spiritually, but not as important legally. For women, it's not a legally enforced thing..

Am I making sense now?

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Your point is duly noted, however, if a male child is born to a Jewish mother and has not been made a Bar Mitzvah , he is still considred a Jew. I guess he simply cannot partake in a minyan

In traditional Judaism, women are for the most part seen as separate but equal. A woman's obligations and responsibilities are different from that of a man, but no less important. Some view them as even MORE important because it is the woman who is responsible for pertuating the faith. This is why many Jewish men get grief when they date non-jews right or wrong. I know my brother didnt have it easy with my mother when he married his wife (second marriage).

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Posted by marymoon

Of course a bat mitzvah is a very real ceremony! But it isn't something that's done in orthodoxy, so you're not breaking any rules by not doing it.

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My Orthodox cousin had a Bat Mitzvah. And if memory serves, the daughter of the Rabbi at Chabad House back in Binghamton had her Bat Mitzvah too. Chabad is a Hasidic organization. All Jewish children have the option of having the Bar or Bat Mitzvah. I would imagine that any child, boy or girl, who chose not to have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah probably wouldn't care if they were breaking any rules. Besides, once you're 13 (12 for girls in some cases) you're considered an adult anyway - the B'nai Mitzvah is a celebration of that life cycle event, not a requirement. My mom didn't have her Bat Mitzvah until she was 36 - does that mean she wasn't an adult until then?

I understand why you're saying that it's something the more liberal sects 'made up', but it is something very real. And as a Reform Jew who is looked down on by my Conservative ILs (who don't even belong to a synagogue), but then served OREO COOKIES ON PASSOVER by them, I take issue with the idea that the only 'real' Judaism is Orthodoxy.

The differences are in methodology, *Not* level of commitment or dedication. I have very real reasons for my choice to be a Reform Jew, and it is no less valid a choice than my Orthodox cousins'. In fact, they have no problem with my choices!

Sorry for the soapbox on this issue, but I spent a good deal of time in college fighting idiotic prejudices like this. Not against LBF404 or Jax, but I did have to smack DH a few times for it!

As for the whether or not someone is Jewish discussion, I can only offer my own feelings on the subject. I tend to draw the line between the religion and the heritage. The 'Born of a Jewish Mother' rule was created to protect the children of Rape victims. This way, even if the child was born illegitimate, he or she would still be recognized by the community and have the same rights as any of the other children. This law, IMO, is antiquated, at least in our society. If you were raised Jewish by at least one Jewish parent (either one) and still consider yourself Jewish, then you are. There are many Jews who would agree. Yes, they're the more liberal ones, but they would. If you have a Jewish parent but you were raised Catholic, then you have Jewish heritage, but you're not Jewish in the religious sense. If you converted, you are what you converted to. The only thing that cannot be changed is the heritage.

The thing wth Judaism is that there's no central 'church' of Judaism, so there are a million ways of doing things, and so many different gradients of 'orthodoxy.' As far as the who is Jewish question, there are SO many different answers..some people will say if your mother is jewihs, you're jewish, whehter or not you convert, you're jewsih for life, some say if either parent is jewish, you're jewish, some say you're jewish if your mother is jewish, but not if you convert, etc, etc. Some people say you're no longer jewish if you marry a non jew, some say you're not jewish if you're not orthodox.

It's really hard to find a 'right' answer.

When I was asked to be a Godparent I had to go for an interview with the priest and then get papers signed...they pulled up my bapismal certificate and I believe they made sure that I had made all of the sacraments as well....then I had to send the paperwork to my cousin (whose daughter I am the Godmother of )