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Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

Original post by OctGroom

groovypeg Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

from the Jewishweek.com if anyone is interested:
After months of speculation about the final form “The Passion of Christ” will take, the first Jewish expert on interfaith affairs to have seen the nearly final cut says earlier fears that the Mel Gibson film about the last hours of Jesus would foment anti-Semitism are no longer necessary.

“A fear that this would result in pogroms against Jews is unwarranted,” David Elcott, U.S. director for interfaith affairs at the American Jewish Committee, told The Jewish Week Tuesday night just after leaving a screening of the film.

Elcott watched “The Passion of Christ” at the Willow Creek mega-church in suburban Chicago, an Evangelical congregation, with 4,500 Christians who included ministers from all over the country.

Though Elcott said he planned to consult with Catholic and Lutheran theologians before issuing his full reaction, he did say that while the movie wasn’t as dangerous as had been feared, “that does not mean that we won’t be disappointed and frustrated by it.”

At the same time, interfaith experts are looking past the opening of the film, which is scheduled for the Catholic holy day Ash Wednesday on Feb. 25, to its long-term impact.

“The Passion of Christ” is slated to open on 2,000 screens nationwide and already is generating business that seemed unimaginable when controversy about it first hit last spring. Written, directed, produced and paid for by Gibson, the $25 million epic is in Aramaic and Latin with English subtitles.

While news reports have been claiming that Pope John Paul II saw the movie and gave it his imprimatur, the Catholic News Service reported this week that the pontiff’s secretary is now saying that the prelate viewed the film in his apartment but has told no one what he thinks of it.

Even after the opening-related brouhaha dies down, some are worried about the film’s long-range impact.

“In the modern age in which we live, the movie will come and go. It’s the DVDs I fear,” said Rabbi A. James Rudin, a veteran of interfaith dialogue and now consulting as senior interreligious adviser to the AJCommittee. “It may be used over and over again for decades to come in church schools and even in seminaries, God forbid. My great concern is that the Catholic bishops, when it comes out, do not endorse it for official use.”

And in the less-hierarchical world outside the Catholic Church, there is no telling what an impact it may make, he said.

“We can’t control what Evangelicals are going to do,” Rabbi Rudin said. “And it will play in Islamic countries, in areas where there are few Jews. The movie has the potential to validate already existing anti-Jewish stereotypes.”

Rabbi Rudin saw a rough cut of the film in Houston last August and was planning to see the latest version Wednesday night in Orlando.

“I was told by a minister friend who just saw it that it isn’t much changed from what I saw then,” he said.

“It’s a very violent movie,” the rabbi said. In August Jews were portrayed as “a bloodthirsty, monolithic, shrieking mob led by the high priest Caiphas. The followers of Jesus were softly portrayed and from the story you wouldn’t have known that they were all Jews.”

“In real life [the Roman governor] Pontius Pilate was a bloodthirsty governor occupying Judea, a ruthless ruler,” Rabbi Rudin said. But in the rough cut of the film he saw in August, Pilate is portrayed “as indecisive and is a puppet of the Jewish high priest.”

“It was typical of Passion Plays,” he said.

Elcott said of this week’s screening that he had heard about Christian viewers in other audiences “sobbing, that it was electric. I didn’t feel that electricity,” he said. “Nothing about this movie played obviously in a way that would make it easier to say thumbs up or down. It’s a complicated movie. It’s not a wonderful story or a horrendous assault.”

But there seems little doubt that the film is going to be a hit, with an unexpected flood of ticket requests, The New York Times reported last week. And some within the Jewish community say the controversy around it, started by Jews concerned about anti-Semitic content, is to blame.

“Because of what the Jewish community did, we made the film successful,” said Rabbi Joseph Ehrenkranz, executive director of the Center for Christian-Jewish Understanding at Sacred Heart University in Connecticut.

As a result, the business “The Passion of Christ” will do “will make ‘Lord of the Rings’ look tiny. It will be the biggest hit Gibson will ever have,” he said.

Many communal leaders are now consciously shifting the strategy they plan to use to respond to the movie.

“We’re vigilant right now about not getting caught in an out-of-control rhetorical battle like the one from this past summer,” said Elcott. “My colleagues at other organizations agree. We want to have a careful, responsible response.”

Last year’s public battle between some in the Jewish community and Gibson, played out in the pages of newspapers and magazines, created unnecessary problems, said Elcott.

It “turned what should have been a Christian discussion into a story of Mel Gibson against the Jews,” he said. “There was no need for this movie to be about the Jews, and we made it into that, which was deeply unnecessary. It allowed Mel Gibson to stake a claim of saying he was being unfairly assaulted about a movie that wasn’t even out yet.”

Going forward, Elcott said, “We need to be much more careful. Calling someone an anti-Semite is a serious indictment, evoking the Holocaust and genocide. Before I use that term I have to be quite sure it applies.”

A spokeswoman for the Anti-Defamation League, which was an early and strong critic of the film, said “we haven’t changed our strategy at all.”

“We have serious concerns about the film, and until we see it, they remain,” said Myrna Shinbaum. “We have reached out to Mel Gibson and his people so they understand we’d like to see this film, and to discuss it with him,” but have not received a response, she said.

Many involved in interfaith work say their focus from here on in will be in dialogue with Christians about the film rather than statements to the press.

The AJCommittee has just published a 47-page resource guide, edited by Rabbi Rudin, which includes guidelines for the presentation of Jesus’ Passion, as his last days are known, issued in 1988 by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and suggested talking points.

It has been distributed to all of the AJCommittee’s chapters. And according to Elcott they and Jewish community relations councils across the country are planning dialogues about the film.

“We are trying to bring together the interreligious community to talk about ways to reaffirm and recommit ourselves to mutual religious respect at a time when there’s great religious tension in the world,” Elcott said. “All of our chapters will work very seriously on this.”

Shinbaum said that any additional response from the ADL will not be in the form of a boycott or other public protest.

“We would raise our concerns and work, hopefully, with all our counterparts in the Christian community, Catholic and Protestant,” she said.

At the end of the day, the film “may do just the opposite of what everybody’s worried about,” said Rabbi Ehrenkranz. “It might create opportunities for rabbis and priests to get together and discuss it. It may be one of the best things that could have happened.” n



OctGroom Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?


Posted by groovypeg

from the Jewishweek.com if anyone is interested:
After months of speculation about the final form “The Passion of Christ” will take, the first Jewish expert on interfaith affairs to have seen the nearly final cut says earlier fears that the Mel Gibson film about the last hours of Jesus would foment anti-Semitism are no longer necessary.

“A fear that this would result in pogroms against Jews is unwarranted,” David Elcott, U.S. director for interfaith affairs at the American Jewish Committee, told The Jewish Week Tuesday night just after leaving a screening of the film.

Elcott watched “The Passion of Christ” at the Willow Creek mega-church in suburban Chicago, an Evangelical congregation, with 4,500 Christians who included ministers from all over the country.

Though Elcott said he planned to consult with Catholic and Lutheran theologians before issuing his full reaction, he did say that while the movie wasn’t as dangerous as had been feared, “that does not mean that we won’t be disappointed and frustrated by it.”

At the same time, interfaith experts are looking past the opening of the film, which is scheduled for the Catholic holy day Ash Wednesday on Feb. 25, to its long-term impact.

“The Passion of Christ” is slated to open on 2,000 screens nationwide and already is generating business that seemed unimaginable when controversy about it first hit last spring. Written, directed, produced and paid for by Gibson, the $25 million epic is in Aramaic and Latin with English subtitles.

While news reports have been claiming that Pope John Paul II saw the movie and gave it his imprimatur, the Catholic News Service reported this week that the pontiff’s secretary is now saying that the prelate viewed the film in his apartment but has told no one what he thinks of it.

Even after the opening-related brouhaha dies down, some are worried about the film’s long-range impact.

“In the modern age in which we live, the movie will come and go. It’s the DVDs I fear,” said Rabbi A. James Rudin, a veteran of interfaith dialogue and now consulting as senior interreligious adviser to the AJCommittee. “It may be used over and over again for decades to come in church schools and even in seminaries, God forbid. My great concern is that the Catholic bishops, when it comes out, do not endorse it for official use.”

And in the less-hierarchical world outside the Catholic Church, there is no telling what an impact it may make, he said.

“We can’t control what Evangelicals are going to do,” Rabbi Rudin said. “And it will play in Islamic countries, in areas where there are few Jews. The movie has the potential to validate already existing anti-Jewish stereotypes.”

Rabbi Rudin saw a rough cut of the film in Houston last August and was planning to see the latest version Wednesday night in Orlando.

“I was told by a minister friend who just saw it that it isn’t much changed from what I saw then,” he said.

“It’s a very violent movie,” the rabbi said. In August Jews were portrayed as “a bloodthirsty, monolithic, shrieking mob led by the high priest Caiphas. The followers of Jesus were softly portrayed and from the story you wouldn’t have known that they were all Jews.”

“In real life [the Roman governor] Pontius Pilate was a bloodthirsty governor occupying Judea, a ruthless ruler,” Rabbi Rudin said. But in the rough cut of the film he saw in August, Pilate is portrayed “as indecisive and is a puppet of the Jewish high priest.”

“It was typical of Passion Plays,” he said.

Elcott said of this week’s screening that he had heard about Christian viewers in other audiences “sobbing, that it was electric. I didn’t feel that electricity,” he said. “Nothing about this movie played obviously in a way that would make it easier to say thumbs up or down. It’s a complicated movie. It’s not a wonderful story or a horrendous assault.”

But there seems little doubt that the film is going to be a hit, with an unexpected flood of ticket requests, The New York Times reported last week. And some within the Jewish community say the controversy around it, started by Jews concerned about anti-Semitic content, is to blame.

“Because of what the Jewish community did, we made the film successful,” said Rabbi Joseph Ehrenkranz, executive director of the Center for Christian-Jewish Understanding at Sacred Heart University in Connecticut.

As a result, the business “The Passion of Christ” will do “will make ‘Lord of the Rings’ look tiny. It will be the biggest hit Gibson will ever have,” he said.

Many communal leaders are now consciously shifting the strategy they plan to use to respond to the movie.

“We’re vigilant right now about not getting caught in an out-of-control rhetorical battle like the one from this past summer,” said Elcott. “My colleagues at other organizations agree. We want to have a careful, responsible response.”

Last year’s public battle between some in the Jewish community and Gibson, played out in the pages of newspapers and magazines, created unnecessary problems, said Elcott.

It “turned what should have been a Christian discussion into a story of Mel Gibson against the Jews,” he said. “There was no need for this movie to be about the Jews, and we made it into that, which was deeply unnecessary. It allowed Mel Gibson to stake a claim of saying he was being unfairly assaulted about a movie that wasn’t even out yet.”

Going forward, Elcott said, “We need to be much more careful. Calling someone an anti-Semite is a serious indictment, evoking the Holocaust and genocide. Before I use that term I have to be quite sure it applies.”

A spokeswoman for the Anti-Defamation League, which was an early and strong critic of the film, said “we haven’t changed our strategy at all.”

“We have serious concerns about the film, and until we see it, they remain,” said Myrna Shinbaum. “We have reached out to Mel Gibson and his people so they understand we’d like to see this film, and to discuss it with him,” but have not received a response, she said.

Many involved in interfaith work say their focus from here on in will be in dialogue with Christians about the film rather than statements to the press.

The AJCommittee has just published a 47-page resource guide, edited by Rabbi Rudin, which includes guidelines for the presentation of Jesus’ Passion, as his last days are known, issued in 1988 by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and suggested talking points.

It has been distributed to all of the AJCommittee’s chapters. And according to Elcott they and Jewish community relations councils across the country are planning dialogues about the film.

“We are trying to bring together the interreligious community to talk about ways to reaffirm and recommit ourselves to mutual religious respect at a time when there’s great religious tension in the world,” Elcott said. “All of our chapters will work very seriously on this.”

Shinbaum said that any additional response from the ADL will not be in the form of a boycott or other public protest.

“We would raise our concerns and work, hopefully, with all our counterparts in the Christian community, Catholic and Protestant,” she said.

At the end of the day, the film “may do just the opposite of what everybody’s worried about,” said Rabbi Ehrenkranz. “It might create opportunities for rabbis and priests to get together and discuss it. It may be one of the best things that could have happened.” n







Thank you for posting it! : -)
heidla Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I want to see it. I enjoy Mel Gibson's work. I think that any movie that deals with the life of Christ is always going to stir the pot. Of course there is going to be 'artistic license' taken, it is a movie not a documentary.

shamma Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I can't wait to see it.

NYCHICK Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I defintely want to go see it. I love mel gibson's work. And I defintely want to make up my mind about it myself, instaead of hearing everybody talk about it.

btrflygrl Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

Yes because I'd like to learn more about the Christian faith as that is what FH is and he is more religious than I am (I'm born jewish)

OctGroom Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?


Posted by btrflygrl

Yes because I'd like to learn more about the Christian faith as that is what FH is and he is more religious than I am (I'm born jewish)




That's awesome.. Very open-minded!
Sassyz75 Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I am going to see it.

AtticaQT Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I will go see it. I've seen the change on how public television has presented the life of Jesus Christ every Easter - so i am interested to see Gibson's interpretation.

PrincessRose Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I'm not sure how I feel about this movie, and I don't know if I'll see it or not.

First of all, Thank you GroovyPeg for posting that article, it has eased my mind a bit.

Secondly, I'd like to mention that the lie 'the Jews Killed Jesus' has been used to fuel anti-semitism for centuries. When my Dad was 6 YEARS OLD in the 50's in NJ, he was stabbed by some kids who had just learned that lie in CCD and were 'out to kill the Christ Killer'. He still has the scars, Physically and Mentally.

Let's get something straight - the wood was Roman, the nails were Roman, and the method of execution was Roman. Jews do not permit capital punishment, except in VERY VERY few and strict circumstances.

Also, Gibson's parents have been quoted as Holocaust Deniers. And Gibson himself is part of a small Catholic splinter movement which wishes to undo some of the decisions the Catholic Church made in the 60's, including the admittance of the lie about the Jews told in the Gospels, which btw were written when there was a race to convert as many non-affiliated people as possible. It's a great tactic - 'well, They killed our Messiah!' I am grateful that the Catholic Church has stopped teaching this way, and I don't want to see things go back to the way they used to be.

All that said, I feel the need to see it for myself to make my own decisions on the movie. However, I do not want my money to go to a movie which I am concerned will fuel hatred against me and my family. For more info on my standpoint on anti-semitism, read my posts in the 'Do you believe in the Afterlife' thread from last week.
michele31 Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I will see it because I think it will be a good movie. If movies caused more viloence against a group of people, Germans would have tons of violence against them since there are a ton of Holocust movies made every year. I am glad I didn't skip many of those films. I make up my own mind about a film after I see it.
I also think anyone who truly wants to punish Jews for 'killing Christ' is crazy anyway and would find another excuse for hurting that group of people. That is like blaming me for the fact that Indians were killed when the Pilgrams came to America. There will always be crazy, mean people looking to hurt a group of people because of their religion, skin color, gender, sexual orrientation etc..A movie does not change those people either way. Hatred has been around much longer than movie theaters. And does it matter who killed Christ anyway? It isn't like he would still be alive today. He HAD to die in a violent way in order for his purpose on Earth to be fullfilled.

People need to take what they see and make up their own minds whether they believe it or not. It is not a documentary and he doesn't claim it is.

Let's face it- none of us where there so there were lots of different stories about what happened on that fateful day in history. The only thing that history does not dispute is that Jesus was killed and nailed to a cross. The rest has been told by many people in different varations over hundreds of years.
BellaBella Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?


Posted by AtticaQT

I will go see it. I've seen the change on how public television has presented the life of Jesus Christ every Easter - so i am interested to see Gibson's interpretation.


I am interested as well. But what about how the television changes Christmas every year? First of all, it's a Christian holiday, it's Jesus's Birthday!.. and yes I know it's also a time for families to be together, but it becomes only more commercialized every year! All people think of it as it's a gift giving holiday for everyone. It's sickening. I mean it's kind of odd seeing jewish, hindus, atheists or whatever other religion celebrating Christmas, when they do not even celebrate the Christian faith. So rediculous. But that's a WHOLE other topic, which by the way doesn't make sense to debate since you can't argue or turn the meaning of Christmas around...
OctGroom Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?

I'll see it as a matter of faith. I really need a strengthening of my faith too.

But when I leave the theater, I want the love that Christ taught to permeate me and extend to all those who I meet. Jesus would never tolerate anything that is not love.

I don't think you can be a true follower if you don't show love to all.
Becky Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?


Posted by PrincessRose

Let's get something straight - the wood was Roman, the nails were Roman, and the method of execution was Roman. Jews do not permit capital punishment, except in VERY VERY few and strict circumstances.




I agree that the Romans killed Christ. But the Jewish Rabbis who wanted Jesus out of the picture so to speak, turned him over to the Romans specifically because their faith did not permit capital punishment.

Let me say that I am in no way saying that Jews, did in fact, kill Christ. It is ridiculous for any Christian to place blame on anyone for Christs death and using that as a reason to hate them. If Christs death does not happen and isn't as terrible as it is, then the very foundation of Christianity falls apart.

Ultimately God was responsible for Christs death. No one could have prevented it. Christ says as much to Pilate, according to the Bible.

I just can't believe that seeing this movie is going to suddenly turn a normal person into a anti-semite. You either are accepting of people or you are prejudiced. I doubt that a movie will flip a switch in anyone.
PrincessRose Posted:

Re: Will you go see 'the Passion of the Christ'?


Posted by Becky


Posted by PrincessRose

Let's get something straight - the wood was Roman, the nails were Roman, and the method of execution was Roman. Jews do not permit capital punishment, except in VERY VERY few and strict circumstances.




I agree that the Romans killed Christ. But the Jewish Rabbis who wanted Jesus out of the picture so to speak, turned him over to the Romans specifically because their faith did not permit capital punishment.

...

I just can't believe that seeing this movie is going to suddenly turn a normal person into a anti-semite. You either are accepting of people or you are prejudiced. I doubt that a movie will flip a switch in anyone.



1st Paragraph:

That is the exact LIE that I'm talking about. And the exact lie that has fueled flames of Anti-Semitism for years, prompting people to stab 6 year olds (read my above post), etc.

2nd Paragraph:

I am sure that this won't 'flip a switch' but it certainly does have an opportunity to remind people of thoughts already in their head.

Look, I don't know anything about you or your life experiences. What I do know is that people who have never been the victim of bigotry can't understand why those who have fear it. I didn't grow up on LI - I grew up as a minority, in Connecticut, no less. Constant harassment, constantly being told I was going to hell, etc. Someone threw a paper airplane with a swastika on it at me when I was 11. You'd think that this world would be past things like this, but it is not. I wish it were. I wish this could be 'Just' a movie. But with the attitudes behind it, I fear that it is not.

We're in NY, we don't see it as much. But believe me, it IS out there.

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