The Health Care Bill

I'm impressed with your ability to start drama Gail! You are learning my child

And just to clear a few things up:

Socialism

is not

Communism


This country already has lots of socialistic aspects. You like you grandma having medicare? How about public schools? Social Security?

Most of the western world has many aspects of socialistic values in their governments. These are good things, no, GREAT things.

There is no reason why any person should loose their healthcare because of a pre existing condition. No one should loose there home because a parent or child or themselves get sick. Have we become so selfish that we can't see beyond me, me , me and my needs? If a free market economy breeds that lack of compassion and human feeling I'll take socialism and helping my fellow citizens any day.

I'm not going to get involved in the politics of it because it's well known here that I am conservative, right leaning, my dad's nickname for me is 'Ann', and I am the devil

BUT, true or false, does this give employers the option to drop their private health care benefits and make their employees buy their own?

I heard this a few months ago, but I don't know if that was a provision of another incarnation of the bill than what passed or just heresay. Legit question...does anyone know if that truly is the case?

Because if so, I'm nearly certain my boss will drop the health care to save a buck, and then I'm SOL.

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Posted by VallieGirl

I love all the interesting comments here. And I love how you all keep it respectful which to me is the most important part.

I am a proud Fox news watching Bush voter. The man wasn't perfect, but he treated our country with respect. Our country is going to be completely run by the governement if we keep Obama in the White House. I can't wait to NOT vote for him again.

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Me too! I voted for Bush twice and I voted for John McCain too. I'm not saying Bush was great but for me, he was the better option!

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Posted by MLAngelo

How can so many Americans be against it that it brought the Congress's approval rating down to 13% and yet it still got passed. Congress is supposed to be representing the people. If that many people hate it then the system is failing.


Also... there is some things in this bill that I have to question the constitutionality of, having read the ENTIRE CONSTITUTION (yes I read the WHOLE THING) and James Madison's Notes on the constitutional convention. Regardless of where you stand in politics, and where you stand on the bill, the founding fathers are rolling over in their graves.

Thats all I am going to say about it. I hate debating politics on line, but I had to say something.

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Well said!

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Posted by KittyGags

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Posted by julesrbf

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Posted by GT143EA

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Posted by MrsDrinkh20

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Posted by KittyGags

Well its quite a far cry from the day of the election when everyone was praising 'CHANGE.' It seems like just a year and a few months in, no one is very happy with the change, because fact of the matter is, its the change coming out of your pockets!

I am NOT a fan of this bill and it is NOT going to fix the health care crisis. I know where they were trying to go with it, but this is far too expensive and not thought out. This poor piece of legislation will not give the uninsured what they need.

I don't understand why they can't just let the insurance companies compete against each other?

$940 BILLION DOLLARS! On top of bailout after bailout...
2 trillion dollars in 421 days. Keep printing more money--that should help!

Welcome to the United States of China is more like it.

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I still am praising change. the truth is GW did nothing great for us...im not saying Obama is scoring points with this bill but in all honesty he has quite the mess to clean up!

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Absolutely!!!! If it wasnt for GWB we wouldn't be in this extremely expensive war! Everyone is so concerned about all the money that will be going to health reform which will help our fellow Americans but noone seems too concerned about all the money going towards this rediculous war we've been fighting for about 8 years now!

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Which is an oil war and has nothing to do with WMDs or anything else.

I have a friend who lived in China for 4 years, by the way. He's gay, and he met his boyfriend there.

They weren't 'allowed' to live together. No one would rent them an apartment together.

Sorry, but I'd rather live here with an imperfect health care reform bill than somewhere I have no civil rights or liberties. To equate the two is madness to me!

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No one said anything about the war or GWB here...I'm saying that I disagree with this piece of legislation and this is why. But if you want to go that route, would you feel differently if there was no action taken and there was another attack on your home soil? I'm not saying this is what would've happened--I just think that people that feel the war is useless would feel VERY differently if we were attacked again. And I lost a dear friend in Iraq so trust me, I'm not a WAR WAR WAR freak.

And the China reference was because we're in debt up to our eyeballs, to them. And pretty soon they will own us. I'm not talk about civil liberties or communism or anything like that?

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone SHOULD be entitled to health care...however I don't see why the taxpayers always bear the brunt of it...if you look at other countries where they have socialized health care, they are no better than here. People are leaving Canada to get treated HERE because the care there is so poor. Allow the insurance companies to compete instead of monopolizing areas and you have fair competition. Make rules for THEM to be able to purchase their insurance at a fair price. Ban them from dropping people and denying claims! Fine but where and why are we spending $940 BILLION DOLLARS?

Be careful what you wish for. This is going to fail and its going to be a pretty expensive lesson to learn.

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Lurker from the 2010 board. Sorry, but I had to respond to this.

1. Iraq never attacked us. Saudis were on the plane Sept 11, but GWB would never attack his buddies. I can understand going into Afghanistan, but Iraq was simply about money/oil. GWB exploited Americans in a time of weakness, and used the attacks of 9/11 to start a war for oil..We never should have entered Iraq. I know it wasnt just GWB, but that government was corrupt.

2. Healthcare in Canada is GREAT! Many people from the US go to Canada for their healthcare. Universal healthcare gets a bad rep, but it does VERY well in Europe and Canada.

3. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

Lastly, I agree with one of the posts above. It's too early to see how this is going to be. It is idealistic, but I've always been an idealistic person. I hope this works out well. I am worried about where the money is coming from, but I do believe in universal healthcare very strongly. Just my two cents.

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Posted by BunnyBride

I'm impressed with your ability to start drama Gail! You are learning my child

And just to clear a few things up:

Socialism

is not

Communism


This country already has lots of socialistic aspects. You like you grandma having medicare? How about public schools? Social Security?

Most of the western world has many aspects of socialistic values in their governments. These are good things, no, GREAT things.

There is no reason why any person should loose their healthcare because of a pre existing condition. No one should loose there home because a parent or child or themselves get sick. Have we become so selfish that we can't see beyond me, me , me and my needs? If a free market economy breeds that lack of compassion and human feeling I'll take socialism and helping my fellow citizens any day.

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ITA! I kept telling my FH this on the way to work this morning. He is VERY against this bill, and keeps saying communism, communism! But socialism is different, and some aspects of it are GREAT! It works well in Europe! They aren't communist at all.

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Posted by jackieee

[

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Lurker from the 2010 board. Sorry, but I had to respond to this.


2. Healthcare in Canada is GREAT! Many people from the US go to Canada for their healthcare. Universal healthcare gets a bad rep, but it does VERY well in Europe and Canada.

.

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I have to disagree with this. Universal health care does not do as well as you might think. Many Canadians and Europeans elect to pay out of pocket to come to the States to get treatment that they would have to wait months or years to obtain under the universal health care systems in their home countries. The wait times become increasingly longer as the patient gets older.

I think we are on a very slippery slope here where the ends are being used to justify the means. When we start allowing government to ignore our Constitutional rights, it is a scary thing, indeed.

I'm going to go out on a limb as a libertarian here. I don't want government interference in ANY of my civil liberties.

This bill wasn't a 'health care reform' bill - it was a 'health insurance reform bill' - let's call it what it is.

For true 'health care reform' there must be tort reform and caps on medical liability, etc.

Socialized medicine is not the success story that it is made out to be. I have family in Australia. My cousins over there who have dual citizenship for both Australia and the US. One of my cousins has cystic fibrosis. He comes here for treatment. Why? Because of the wait time over there and the lack of options you have to select your own care.

I would hope that someday every citizen of the United States would have access to affordable health insurance but sadly, I don't think this bill is the answer.

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Posted by geegee827

I'm going to go out on a limb as a libertarian here. I don't want government interference in ANY of my civil liberties.

This bill wasn't a 'health care reform' bill - it was a 'health insurance reform bill' - let's call it what it is.

For true 'health care reform' there must be tort reform and caps on medical liability, etc.

Socialized medicine is not the success story that it is made out to be. I have family in Australia. My cousins over there who have dual citizenship for both Australia and the US. One of my cousins has cystic fibrosis. He comes here for treatment. Why? Because of the wait time over there and the lack of options you have to select your own care.

I would hope that someday every citizen of the United States would have access to affordable health insurance but sadly, I don't think this bill is the answer.

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Absolutely i have alot of family in Europe & they wait unless its an emergency & because they feel like c rap but wont be seen they end up paying out of pocket anyway. So tell me how does that help? I think that means you are now paying twice!

I also know many Canadiens that come here to be treated. Same reasons!

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Posted by BunnyBride

I'm impressed with your ability to start drama Gail! You are learning my child

And just to clear a few things up:

Socialism

is not

Communism


This country already has lots of socialistic aspects. You like you grandma having medicare? How about public schools? Social Security?

Most of the western world has many aspects of socialistic values in their governments. These are good things, no, GREAT things.

There is no reason why any person should loose their healthcare because of a pre existing condition. No one should loose there home because a parent or child or themselves get sick. Have we become so selfish that we can't see beyond me, me , me and my needs? If a free market economy breeds that lack of compassion and human feeling I'll take socialism and helping my fellow citizens any day.

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AMEN SISTA!!!!!!

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Posted by jackieee



Lurker from the 2010 board. Sorry, but I had to respond to this.

1. Iraq never attacked us. Saudis were on the plane Sept 11, but GWB would never attack his buddies. I can understand going into Afghanistan, but Iraq was simply about money/oil. GWB exploited Americans in a time of weakness, and used the attacks of 9/11 to start a war for oil..We never should have entered Iraq. I know it wasnt just GWB, but that government was corrupt.

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TOTALLY AGREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
esp the part about 'GWB would never attack his buddies'

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Posted by KerriJohnS

BABBLING BUFFOON BUSH.....

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I LOVE this!!!!

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Posted by jackieee

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Posted by KittyGags

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Posted by julesrbf

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Posted by GT143EA

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Posted by MrsDrinkh20

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Posted by KittyGags

Well its quite a far cry from the day of the election when everyone was praising 'CHANGE.' It seems like just a year and a few months in, no one is very happy with the change, because fact of the matter is, its the change coming out of your pockets!

I am NOT a fan of this bill and it is NOT going to fix the health care crisis. I know where they were trying to go with it, but this is far too expensive and not thought out. This poor piece of legislation will not give the uninsured what they need.

I don't understand why they can't just let the insurance companies compete against each other?

$940 BILLION DOLLARS! On top of bailout after bailout...
2 trillion dollars in 421 days. Keep printing more money--that should help!

Welcome to the United States of China is more like it.

---

I still am praising change. the truth is GW did nothing great for us...im not saying Obama is scoring points with this bill but in all honesty he has quite the mess to clean up!

---

Absolutely!!!! If it wasnt for GWB we wouldn't be in this extremely expensive war! Everyone is so concerned about all the money that will be going to health reform which will help our fellow Americans but noone seems too concerned about all the money going towards this rediculous war we've been fighting for about 8 years now!

---

Which is an oil war and has nothing to do with WMDs or anything else.

I have a friend who lived in China for 4 years, by the way. He's gay, and he met his boyfriend there.

They weren't 'allowed' to live together. No one would rent them an apartment together.

Sorry, but I'd rather live here with an imperfect health care reform bill than somewhere I have no civil rights or liberties. To equate the two is madness to me!

---

No one said anything about the war or GWB here...I'm saying that I disagree with this piece of legislation and this is why. But if you want to go that route, would you feel differently if there was no action taken and there was another attack on your home soil? I'm not saying this is what would've happened--I just think that people that feel the war is useless would feel VERY differently if we were attacked again. And I lost a dear friend in Iraq so trust me, I'm not a WAR WAR WAR freak.

And the China reference was because we're in debt up to our eyeballs, to them. And pretty soon they will own us. I'm not talk about civil liberties or communism or anything like that?

Don't get me wrong, I think everyone SHOULD be entitled to health care...however I don't see why the taxpayers always bear the brunt of it...if you look at other countries where they have socialized health care, they are no better than here. People are leaving Canada to get treated HERE because the care there is so poor. Allow the insurance companies to compete instead of monopolizing areas and you have fair competition. Make rules for THEM to be able to purchase their insurance at a fair price. Ban them from dropping people and denying claims! Fine but where and why are we spending $940 BILLION DOLLARS?

Be careful what you wish for. This is going to fail and its going to be a pretty expensive lesson to learn.

---

Lurker from the 2010 board. Sorry, but I had to respond to this.

1. Iraq never attacked us. Saudis were on the plane Sept 11, but GWB would never attack his buddies. I can understand going into Afghanistan, but Iraq was simply about money/oil. GWB exploited Americans in a time of weakness, and used the attacks of 9/11 to start a war for oil..We never should have entered Iraq. I know it wasnt just GWB, but that government was corrupt.

2. Healthcare in Canada is GREAT! Many people from the US go to Canada for their healthcare. Universal healthcare gets a bad rep, but it does VERY well in Europe and Canada.

3. I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.

Lastly, I agree with one of the posts above. It's too early to see how this is going to be. It is idealistic, but I've always been an idealistic person. I hope this works out well. I am worried about where the money is coming from, but I do believe in universal healthcare very strongly. Just my two cents.

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Hi gals, sorry I am another lurker from the 2010 board..There was a 'Health Care Bill' on the BHB board that I also posted on...but unfortunately there wasn't much debate on it..I think its sad that everyone is afraid of or hurting each other's feelings because of political views. Theres nothing wrong with having political discussions, I am all for a nice break from the wedding chatter!

I think we should all agree to disagree here. Thats why this is a debate. I too, am all for 'change' - unfortunately, that may definitely mean 'change from everyone's pockets'...but comparing the US to other nations like Canada, China, Sweden, etc that have better health care systems isn't a good comparison. We are unique - some of the great features of health care in other countries would probably fail miserably here and vice versa. There are always plus-es and minus-es for every side. I think we can only point to those countries as a model for achieving the best we can under the circumstances.

It remains to be seen what happens, but I am really enjoying the comments on this thread and vigorous discussion. I love learning new viewpoints so please don't be afraid to say anything overly political for fear of 'offending' someone..I sure won't be offended.

Lots of GWB haters out there! Multipy that feeling by 10 and that's how I feel about our current 'leader'.

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Posted by meg922

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Posted by jackieee

[

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Lurker from the 2010 board. Sorry, but I had to respond to this.


2. Healthcare in Canada is GREAT! Many people from the US go to Canada for their healthcare. Universal healthcare gets a bad rep, but it does VERY well in Europe and Canada.

.

---

I have to disagree with this. Universal health care does not do as well as you might think. Many Canadians and Europeans elect to pay out of pocket to come to the States to get treatment that they would have to wait months or years to obtain under the universal health care systems in their home countries. The wait times become increasingly longer as the patient gets older.

I think we are on a very slippery slope here where the ends are being used to justify the means. When we start allowing government to ignore our Constitutional rights, it is a scary thing, indeed.

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and own argument, but I wouldn't argue that Europe and Canada has a perfect system of health care. My friend from Poland who married a US Citizen so now lives here is very upset about this because Poland has Universal Health Care. When her mom got sick it was taking forever to get any care. She said they had to pay the doctor large sums under the table to get any care. It went through so much bureaucracy her mother would have died from cancer waiting for an appointment to get checked. They paid LARGE SUMS!!! (They had to all pool money and almost went broke so she could stay alive.) Another person I know, also from Poland found a way to bring her dad here for care when it was going to take 2 year to get her any help. I hear about this happening in Canada as well. This is very common in countries with those kind of Health Care systems. That is why many Canadians come here for care.

You can argue anything you want, but know the facts before you say they have the best health care systems.

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Posted by VallieGirl

Lots of GWB haters out there! Multipy that feeling by 10 and that's how I feel about our current 'leader'.

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10 is gentle.

We should chat

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Posted by MLAngelo

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Posted by meg922

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Posted by jackieee

[

---

Lurker from the 2010 board. Sorry, but I had to respond to this.


2. Healthcare in Canada is GREAT! Many people from the US go to Canada for their healthcare. Universal healthcare gets a bad rep, but it does VERY well in Europe and Canada.

.

---

I have to disagree with this. Universal health care does not do as well as you might think. Many Canadians and Europeans elect to pay out of pocket to come to the States to get treatment that they would have to wait months or years to obtain under the universal health care systems in their home countries. The wait times become increasingly longer as the patient gets older.

I think we are on a very slippery slope here where the ends are being used to justify the means. When we start allowing government to ignore our Constitutional rights, it is a scary thing, indeed.

---

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and own argument, but I wouldn't argue that Europe and Canada has a perfect system of health care. My friend from Poland who married a US Citizen so now lives here is very upset about this because Poland has Universal Health Care. When her mom got sick it was taking forever to get any care. She said they had to pay the doctor large sums under the table to get any care. It went through so much bureaucracy her mother would have died from cancer waiting for an appointment to get checked. They paid LARGE SUMS!!! (They had to all pool money and almost went broke so she could stay alive.) Another person I know, also from Poland found a way to bring her dad here for care when it was going to take 2 year to get her any help. I hear about this happening in Canada as well. This is very common in countries with those kind of Health Care systems. That is why many Canadians come here for care.

You can argue anything you want, but know the facts before you say they have the best health care systems.

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sorry - this thread is too good not to chime in...

This is a link to a Frontline TV program that aired recently - it highlights all the good and bad stuff from health care systems around the world..
It is very enligtening because some countries have GREAT health care programs and others..like Poland...not so great:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/

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Posted by FutureMrsLMS

sorry - this thread is too good not to chime in...

This is a link to a Frontline TV program that aired recently - it highlights all the good and bad stuff from health care systems around the world..
It is very enligtening because some countries have GREAT health care programs and others..like Poland...not so great:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/view/

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Thanks for posting that link! Very interesting!!!!!!!!

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Posted by VallieGirl

Lots of GWB haters out there! Multipy that feeling by 10 and that's how I feel about our current 'leader'.

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AMEN SISTA!