I am posting this question on here because now that we are married we may have a different perspective on things.
Here goes:
Our best man has been dating a woman off and on for 5 years. I really like this woman- she is intelligent, hard working, motivated, focused and a strong no nonsense taking person.
Well she REALLY wants to marry our friend. She has made this clear from day one. Our friend really wants to marry her as well, but he is very much financially strapped- ok he has the worst credit in history and cannot afford to buy a ring, is still in school and has a host of other things going on. He has told her on many of occasions that she is the one, and without a doubt he wants to marry her,he just needs to get his financial situation in order first.
She is not accepting this- she has given ultimatums and threats.
Now if you were in this situation would you wait around or grow frustrated and walk out?
Their ages are 30 (him) 32 (her).
shamma
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Mary, I agree with some parts of your post but the ultimatum part still makes it seem as if he was forced in to it. Yes I do agree society does coddle men. I think something as serious as a lifetime committment no one should be forced in to it. It should be done of one's own free will.
ChristineC68
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
I don't think anyone should be coerced into marraige but I have always wonderd why it's usually up to the man to decide/ask and rarely the other way around.
As for the original question - if he's not ready for marraige now and she doesn't want to wait then it doesn't seem to be meant to be.
Sage10.03
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Posted by shamma
Mary, I agree with some parts of your post but the ultimatum part still makes it seem as if he was forced in to it. Yes I do agree society does coddle men. I think something as serious as a lifetime committment no one should be forced in to it. It should be done of one's own free will.
I agree Shamma - some men, as are some women, are not cut out for marriage or committment and should not be forced into one. I, for one, want to know that the reason that my DH proposed is solely based on his love for me and the fact that he is ready to spend his life with me......certainly not because I gave him an ultimatum.
If a woman is tired of waiting, walk away. If he decides on his own, that he is ready and comes back, and she still wants him....then they can go from there.... At least she will know it was for the right reasons.
A woman who is willing to walk away, IMO, shows a lot more strength than any ultimatum ever would.
shamma
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Posted by Sage10.03
Posted by shamma
Mary, I agree with some parts of your post but the ultimatum part still makes it seem as if he was forced in to it. Yes I do agree society does coddle men. I think something as serious as a lifetime committment no one should be forced in to it. It should be done of one's own free will.
I agree Shamma - some men, as are some women, are not cut out for marriage or committment and should not be forced into one. I, for one, want to know that the reason that my DH proposed is solely based on his love for me and the fact that he is ready to spend his life with me......certainly not because I gave him an ultimatum.
If a woman is tired of waiting, walk away. If he decides on his own, that he is ready and comes back, and she still wants him....then they can go from there.... At least she will know it was for the right reasons.
A woman who is willing to walk away, IMO, shows a lot more strength than any ultimatum ever would.
Can the church say Amen
Sonicstef
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
I think if her position is: I love you and want to spend my life with you but I also have to live my life to the fullest. I want a husband, children, a family, etc.. and I want it soon. If you cant give those things to me, then I need to know that and move on. We are not headed in the right direction and breaking up is the best for both of us.
That is not an ultimatum. That is knowing what you want and being smart about not waiting for someone to give you something that you need.
But if her position is: I love you and want to spend my life with you but I need a big ring and a big wedding and Im going to totally ignore your financial situation and guilt you until i get my rock - otherwise Im going to break up with you and you will never find someone as good as me and I hope you burn in hell.
That is an ultimatum.
nrvbrd
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Posted by Sonicstef
I think if her position is: I love you and want to spend my life with you but I also have to live my life to the fullest. I want a husband, children, a family, etc.. and I want it soon. If you cant give those things to me, then I need to know that and move on. We are not headed in the right direction and breaking up is the best for both of us.
That is not an ultimatum. That is knowing what you want and being smart about not waiting for someone to give you something that you need.
But if her position is: I love you and want to spend my life with you but I need a big ring and a big wedding and Im going to totally ignore your financial situation and guilt you until i get my rock - otherwise Im going to break up with you and you will never find someone as good as me and I hope you burn in hell.
That is an ultimatum.
Stef, her position is a little of both.
She breaks up with him and they end up right back together.
Sassyz75
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Christine- funny you say how you don't understand why it is the Man's job to ask.
I felt the same way.
DH and I came to a mutual decision to get married. I wasn't going to leave a decision like that in his hands alone.
Plus- we weren't in the best financial shape at the time.
Mary
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
I stand my ground on the ultimatum issue, but it is wrong to force him.
shamma
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Stef you are crazy
Sage10.03
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Posted by Mary
I stand my ground on the ultimatum issue, but it is wrong to force him.
Isn't it the same thing?
Mary
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
IMO. If someone is given an ultimatum and they don't bite, then it should be over. Staying around and causing harm (emotional or other) is not right.
shamma
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Mary, I think an ultimatum is forcing someone to act in a way you want them to. If you stay or they stay, whatever punishment they get they deserve it.
Mary
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Posted by shamma
Mary, I think an ultimatum is forcing someone to act in a way you want them to. If you stay or they stay, whatever punishment they get they deserve it.
That is a good point. But, I equate the word 'ultimatum' with finality, not force.
My view of an ultimatum is similar to what Stef said earlier: a woman who is strong enough to say this is what I want and walks away if she doesn't get it.
Cindy
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
I would probably discuss a time frame with him that the two of them can agree on that they will move on and in my head if I still felt I was in the same exact place at that time, I would seriously think about moving on.
ChristineC68
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
Posted by Sassyz75
Christine- funny you say how you don't understand why it is the Man's job to ask.
I felt the same way.
DH and I came to a mutual decision to get married. I wasn't going to leave a decision like that in his hands alone.
Plus- we weren't in the best financial shape at the time.
I wasn't surprised that we got engaged as we already decided we were going to get married and were planning our future. But I did leave it up to him as to when we got engaged.
~~~~~~~
Here is the definition of Ultimatum:
'a final proposition, condition, or demand; especially : one whose rejection will end negotiations and cause a resort to force or other direct action'
Someone that uses it must be willing to accept that they may not get the answer they are looking for.
I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing - it's saying that I need to move on if we aren't going to move together. I think people owe themselves that.
MrsTC
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Re: Would you have accepted a promise to be engaged?
K-
sounds like she wants the fairytale and not a marriage in the true sense!!
If she really wants a ring blah blah why can't she buy it and then have them as a couple pay it off? I mean, if it means that much to her. I know the traditional way is to have the man but it etc, but this would speed things along LOL. Esp if she is 32 and her clock is ticking....
