Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Also, our last several presidents ahve been very much moderates. Bush I, Clinton...both very moderate, very middle of the road, reaching across the aisel kind of guys.. Bush is not like that. He's hard hitting a conservative agenda. Even repiblican commentators agree that his 'compassionate conservative' promise has not been fulfilled.
And the same cna be said of John Kerry, he has long been described as the most liberal senator...

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

a very wise man (my dad ) said that the reason people voted for Bush was because they wanted him to finish the war he started. the Kerry campain stated that the country wanted a change and that we should have a fresh start. yet more people voted for bush.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

I think this campaign was won and lost on moral issues and the groundgame. Republicnas played it close to the vest, but they courted the 4 million evangelical christians who didn't vote in 2000, and a lot of them came out and voted on Nov 2.

it isn't always about ideals winning over other ideals, most of the time it's about how well you played the game, and the republicans played it very, very well.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by marymoon

Also, our last several presidents ahve been very much moderates. Bush I, Clinton...both very moderate, very middle of the road, reaching across the aisel kind of guys.. Bush is not like that. He's hard hitting a conservative agenda. Even repiblican commentators agree that his 'compassionate conservative' promise has not been fulfilled.
And the same cna be said of John Kerry, he has long been described as the most liberal senator...

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I agree. This election was very different because of 9-11, the war on terror, and the fact that Bush and Kerry come from very opposing political sides. Yes, Clinton was a moderate Southern dem but he did pack the courts with liberal judges too. Guess we will see what happens in 4 yrs.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by marymoon

I think this campaign was won and lost on moral issues and the groundgame. Republicnas played it close to the vest, but they courted the 4 million evangelical christians who didn't vote in 2000, and a lot of them came out and voted on Nov 2.

it isn't always about ideals winning over other ideals, most of the time it's about how well you played the game, and the republicans played it very, very well.

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I think Bush also resonates with people because of his personality - he is viewed as a good ole boy and a real person where a lot of ppl in the northeast may think he seems stupid - (contrary to popular belief he scored 1200 on his SATs) - he is not always concerned with names or details leaving that to his staff, he is more of a big picture man. People in the midwest and south see him as one of their own - he is in love with his wife and that shows through too.

Whereas I think Kerry's wife's comments about Laura Bush never having worked may have hurt him and the fact that he left his first wife when she was suffering from mental depression and then tried to get the marriage annulled. Also, putting John Edwards on the ticket was a bad choice.

Swift Boat Veterans for Truth also hurt Kerry tremendously....

And, I think alot of ppl think Kerry is an international elitist -- Two words: global test, and for once, Kerry was being consistent and honest with the public. That may be why he lost.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by verdila

And, I think alot of ppl think Kerry is an international elitist -- Two words: global test, and for once, Kerry was being consistent and honest with the public. That may be why he lost.

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Did you watch the debate? If you did, you know that Kerry was saying that the President was accountable to the people of America for any war that he started. He was not talking about giving our right to protect ourselves away to other countires, although that is what Bush said over and over again; Bush was lying and he knew it, yeah that's a moral man.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Our standing in the world DOES matter. If we get in deepr in this war, or we end up at war with north lorea nd other nations, and we don't ahve western europe backing us up, we're in BIG trouble...so an international test isn'ta wussy way out like george bush paints it, it's the only smart way to do things. Also, this doens't always apply, but if most of the free world believes that what you're doing is wrong, maybe it's time to reevaluate

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by lesleyw

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Posted by verdila

And, I think alot of ppl think Kerry is an international elitist -- Two words: global test, and for once, Kerry was being consistent and honest with the public. That may be why he lost.

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Did you watch the debate? If you did, you know that Kerry was saying that the President was accountable to the people of America for any war that he started. He was not talking about giving our right to protect ourselves away to other countires, although that is what Bush said over and over again; Bush was lying and he knew it, yeah that's a moral man.

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You know what, I actually watched all of them. So don't patronize me. Oh yeh sure, no Kerry never lies either. And he is a moral man? One who says he threw away his medals to protest the war but then displayed some of them in his office when it is convenient.

We all know politicians from both sides lie to some degree...

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by verdila

You know what, I actually watched all of them. So don't patronize me. Oh yeh sure, no Kerry never lies either. And he is a moral man? One who says he threw away his medals to protest the war but then displayed some of them in his office when it is convenient.

We all know politicians from both sides lie to some degree...

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I didn't mean to be rude, but I heard Bush pushing this line on his weekend radio address and that infuriated me. I'm not saying Kerry is perfect, but Bush has blatantly lied about this over and over, and the fact that he used his weekly radio address to push these lies just sends me through the roof. All I was saying is if you did watch the debate you would understand what Kerry had said and that Bush's characterization of it was a lie.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Understand but disagree - in the first debate Kerry alluded to a global test that America must pass before we commit our troops to war. So, Bush's people used that in an ad and then Kerry's people shot back saying Bush lost the debate and he was a liar too.

Kerry said presidents have the right to preemption. But he also believes that this right should be subject to regulations by the 'international community,' the UN, etc.

Bush cares about the opinions of our allies, the UN etc too. But herein lies the difference -- he cares about them much, much less than John Kerry does. In effect, the threshold for where and when Kerry will buck the opinions of foreign leaders - including all those mysterious ones who secretly want him to be president - is much, much higher than Bush.

Thus, Kerry would probably not give the world community an absolute veto over American national security, but he would almost surely give them a partial veto.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by verdila

Kerry said presidents have the right to preemption. But he also believes that this right should be subject to regulations by the 'international community,' the UN, etc.

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This is not what he said. Here is what Kerry said. This came from a story on CNN:

'No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded -- and nor would I -- the right to preempt in any way necessary, to protect the United States of America,' the Democrat told moderator Jim Lehrer during the debate.

'But if and when you do it, Jim, you've got to do it in a way that passes the, the test, that passes the global test where your countrymen, your people, understand fully why you're doing what you're doing, and you can prove to the world that you did it for legitimate reasons.'

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

He called it a global test - to me that means international first of all. He said he you need approval from your countrymen - well ok, I understand that, but at the time he did get support from his countrymen and the ok from the Senate and thirdly he said that you need to prove to the world your reasons. Isn't that alluding to a global test right there?

Anyway, didn't Kerry vote for the war in the first place also? He also said that Hussein was a grave threat too.

More transcripts -

BUSH: Let me -- I'm not exactly sure what you mean, 'passes the global test,' you take preemptive action if you pass a global test.

My attitude is you take preemptive action in order to protect the American people, that you act in order to make this country secure.

My opponent talks about me not signing certain treaties. Let me tell you one thing I didn't sign, and I think it shows the difference of our opinion -- the difference of opinions. And that is, I wouldn't join the International Criminal Court. It's a body based in The Hague where unaccountable judges and prosecutors can pull our troops or diplomats up for trial.

And I wouldn't join it. And I understand that in certain capitals around the world that that wasn't a popular move. But it's the right move not to join a foreign court that could -- where our people could be prosecuted.

My opponent is for joining the International Criminal Court. I just think trying to be popular, kind of, in the global sense, if it's not in our best interest makes no sense. I'm interested in working with our nations and do a lot of it. But I'm not going to make decisions that I think are wrong for America.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

I'm not so sure Bush had the support of his countrymen

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Saying that Bush got more votes than Clinton, Reagan or any other President is moot. It all has to do with population.

After all, Kerry got more votes than Reagan did.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Bottom line MM's comments were meant to add a little humor and fun back into some of America
Geez, I guess republicans don't have much of a sense of humor

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by lesleyw

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Posted by smm2675

without going into my tyrade against MM - I just have this to add - the election is over, Bush won, John Kerry has accepted the lost and now everyone else should to. especially mm.

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Yes, Kerry did loose, but it was a narrow loss. Many people put their heart and souls into supporting Kerry and it's important to put the loss in perspecitve -- it was by no means a blow out.

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Speak on! That is certainly the truth!

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

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Posted by DjPiLL

I guess FarenHYPE wasn't as influential as MM would have liked.

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Given how close the election was (if you believe the results) I would say Farenheit actually was extremely influential.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Whether or not folks realize this Bush or Kerry would not really be doing different things in Iraq because they are both dealing with the fact that for now, we are stuck there.
I think Kerry was however was less apt to antagonize and garner further hatred and disapproval of us the way Bush has. I hate to sound repetitive, but fighting terrorism thousands of miles away will do little to stop the people that are currently in this country plotting against us. We have already set in motion a chain of events that will play themselves out regardless of who is in office, but, I do think Bush's policies and military campaign exacerbates the situation.

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Right, The Iraq situation is what it is, and it has to be dealt with. Even if you think it's wrong we can;t just not finish what we started and leave millions of people in squalor. I just believe that John Kerry would be less apt to attack unprovoked and wouldn't make so many enemies by taking on the world vigilante fashion

Re: A little hope for those disappointed by the outcome fo the election

Thanks for posting this. It did make me feel a little more hopeful (a very little) and the laughs helped a lot. He's right, we (anyone who is not a Bush supporter) cannot give up hope!