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According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

Original post by Sassyz75

Guess I'm not a good American since I don't own anything... see below.

Bush's Own Goal
By PAUL KRUGMAN

Published: August 13, 2004




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new Bush campaign ad pushes the theme of an 'ownership society,' and concludes with President Bush declaring, 'I understand if you own something, you have a vital stake in the future of America.'

Call me naïve, but I thought all Americans have a vital stake in the nation's future, regardless of how much property they own. (Should we go back to the days when states, arguing that only men of sufficient substance could be trusted, imposed property qualifications for voting?) Even if Mr. Bush is talking only about the economic future, don't workers have as much stake as property owners in the economy's success?

But there's a political imperative behind the 'ownership society' theme: the need to provide pseudopopulist cover to policies that are, in reality, highly elitist.

The Bush tax cuts have, of course, heavily favored the very, very well off. But they have also, more specifically, favored unearned income over earned income - or, if you prefer, investment returns over wages. Last year Daniel Altman pointed out in The New York Times that Mr. Bush's proposals, if fully adopted, 'could eliminate almost all taxes on investment income and wealth for almost all Americans.' Mr. Bush hasn't yet gotten all he wants, but he has taken a large step toward a system in which only labor income is taxed.

The political problem with a policy favoring investment returns over wages is that a vast majority of Americans derive their income primarily from wages, and that the bulk of investment income goes to a small elite. How, then, can such a policy be sold? By promising that everyone can join the elite.

Right now, the ownership of stocks and bonds is highly concentrated. Conservatives like to point out that a majority of American families now own stock, but that's a misleading statistic because most of those 'investors' have only a small stake in the market. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that more than half of corporate profits ultimately accrue to the wealthiest 1 percent of taxpayers, while only about 8 percent go to the bottom 60 percent. If the 'ownership society' means anything, it means spreading investment income more widely - a laudable goal, if achievable.

But does Mr. Bush have a way to get us there?

There's a section on his campaign blog about the ownership society, but it's short on specifics. Much of the space is devoted to new types of tax-sheltered savings accounts. People who have looked into plans for such accounts know, however, that they would provide more tax shelters for the wealthy, but would be irrelevant to most families, who already have access to 401(k)'s. Their ability to invest more is limited not by taxes but by the fact that they aren't earning enough to save more.

The one seemingly substantive proposal is a blast from the past: a renewed call for the partial privatization of Social Security, which would divert payroll taxes into personal accounts. Mr. Bush campaigned on that issue in 2000, but he never acted on it. And there was a reason the idea went nowhere: it didn't make sense.

Social Security is, basically, a system in which each generation pays for the previous generation's retirement. If the payroll taxes of younger workers are diverted into private accounts, there will be a gaping financial hole: who will pay benefits to older Americans, who have spent their working lives paying into the current system? Unless you have a way to fill that multitrillion-dollar hole, privatization is an empty slogan, not a real proposal.

In 2001, Mr. Bush's handpicked commission on Social Security was unable to agree on a plan to create private accounts because there was no way to make the arithmetic work. Undaunted, this year the Bush campaign once again insists that privatization will lead to a 'permanently strengthened Social Security system, without changing benefits for those now in or near retirement, and without raising payroll taxes on workers.' In other words, 2 - 1 = 4.

Four years ago, Mr. Bush got a free pass from the press on his Social Security 'plan,' either because reporters didn't understand the arithmetic, or because they assumed that after the election he would come up with a plan that actually added up. Will the same thing happen again? Let's hope not.

As Mr. Bush has said: 'Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - can't get fooled again.'


Sassyz75 Posted:

More Krugman on the economy...

More Krugman:




When Friday's dismal job report was released, traders in the Chicago pit began chanting, 'Kerry, Kerry.' But apologists for President Bush's economic policies are frantically spinning the bad news. Here's a guide to their techniques.

First, they talk about recent increases in the number of jobs, not the fact that payroll employment is still far below its previous peak, and even further below anything one could call full employment. Because job growth has finally turned positive, some economists (who probably know better) claim that prosperity has returned - and some partisans have even claimed that we have the best economy in 20 years.

But job growth, by itself, says nothing about prosperity: growth can be higher in a bad year than a good year, if the bad year follows a terrible year while the good year follows another good year. I've drawn a chart of job growth for the 1930's; there was rapid nonfarm job growth (8.1 percent) in 1934, a year of mass unemployment and widespread misery - but that year was slightly less terrible than 1933.

So have we returned to prosperity? No: jobs are harder to find, by any measure, than they were at any point during Bill Clinton's second term. The job situation might have improved somewhat in the past year, but it's still not good.

Second, the apologists give numbers without context. President Bush boasts about 1.5 million new jobs over the past 11 months. Yet this was barely enough to keep up with population growth, and it's worse than any 11-month stretch during the Clinton years.

Third, they cherry-pick any good numbers they can find.

The shocking news that the economy added only 32,000 jobs in July comes from payroll data. Experts say what Alan Greenspan said in February: 'Everything we've looked at suggests that it's the payroll data which are the series which you have to follow.' Another measure of employment, from the household survey, fluctuates erratically; for example, it fell by 265,000 in February, a result nobody believes. Yet because July's household number was good, suddenly administration officials were telling reporters to look at that number, not the more reliable payroll data.

By the way, over the longer term all the available data tell the same story: the job situation deteriorated drastically between early 2001 and the summer of 2003, and has, at best, improved modestly since then.

Fourth, apologists try to shift the blame. Officials often claim, falsely, that the 2001 recession began under Bill Clinton, or at least that it was somehow his fault. But even if you attribute the eight-month recession that began in March 2001 to Mr. Clinton - a very dubious proposition - job loss during the recession wasn't exceptionally severe. The reason the employment picture looks so bad now is the unprecedented weakness of job growth in the subsequent recovery.

Nor is it plausible to continue attributing poor economic performance to terrorism, three years after 9/11. Bear in mind that in the 2002 Economic Report of the President, the administration's own economists predicted full recovery by 2004, with payroll employment rising to 138 million, 7 million more than the actual number.

Finally, many apologists have returned to that old standby: the claim that presidents don't control the economy. But that's not what the administration said when selling its tax policies. Last year's tax cut was officially named the Jobs and Growth Tax Relief Reconciliation Act of 2003 - and administration economists provided a glowing projection of the job growth that would follow the bill's passage. That projection has, needless to say, proved to be wildly overoptimistic.

What we've just seen is as clear a test of trickledown economics as we're ever likely to get. Twice, in 2001 and in 2003, the administration insisted that a tax cut heavily tilted toward the affluent was just what the economy needed. Officials brushed aside pleas to give relief instead to lower- and middle-income families, who would be more likely to spend the money, and to cash-strapped state and local governments. Given the actual results - huge deficits, but minimal job growth - don't you wish the administration had listened to that advice?

Oh, and on a nonpolitical note: even before Friday's grim report on jobs, I was puzzled by Mr. Greenspan's eagerness to start raising interest rates. Now I don't understand his policy at all.
Bride626 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

First of all, I was not born with a silver spoon in my mouth. As a matter of fact, I am one of 9 children and my father was a NYC Firefighter. Not exactly, big money!! I have worked hard to get where I am today and think I am only entitled to what I actually work for.

I disagree with you that big government is the answer for solving the world's problems.

Don't call me heartless. You don't even know me. Of course, some government programs are necessary. I just think liberals are way out of control. I work hard for my money. Sorry, if I am opposed to being taxed to death. I think a lot of people agree with me.
september2004 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?


Posted by Bride626
I just think liberals are way out of control.


I personally think the word 'liberal' is thrown around like a dirty word and I am not a big fan of that...
Sassyz75 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

If you can throw around entitled- than I can throw around heartless... which was a point in a debate- not a personal attack...

Also- when I was talking about silver spoons- I was referring to our dear old President, not you- how would I know how you are raised.
myasmom Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

lets just take a breather. I think that with politics are hard to communicate over a computer. So some points that are meant in general may not come out that way in typed format.

I kinda enjoy our discussion. A little debating never hurt..so for myself..if anyone takes anything as a persoanl attack..its not my intention.
Bride626 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

It sounded like a personal attack to call me heartless but if that was not your intention, then fine.

Again, I value people's opinions even the ones that differ from mine and also enjoy the debate. But, in the end, agree to disagree!

By the way, I used to be a democrat. I even voted for Gore!! In fact, many of my views remain more democratic.

But in my view, times have changed and I changed my tune (for the most part) since 9/11. Dennis Miller has some interesting commentary on this issue...

september2004 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?


Posted by Bride626
Again, I value people's opinions even the ones that differ from mine and also enjoy the debate. But, in the end, agree to disagree!

By the way, I used to be a democrat. I even voted for Gore!! In fact, many of my views remain more democratic.

But in my view, times have changed and I changed my tune (for the most part) since 9/11. Dennis Miller has some interesting commentary on this issue...



Some of my views could be considered 'conservative' and 'republican' but I am a democrat - abortion is a key issue for me.

I am shocked at some of the cr@p that comes out of Miller's mouth. I used to find him entertaining, not anymore...
lesleyw Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

I agree about Dennis Miller. I used to think he was kind of funny. Now, he is painful to watch. He's turned into a total weenie.

Bride626 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

You're right...his show does su**. It is almost as bad as Jon McEnroe's. My point was that he has a good bit on how the world is different since 9/11. I might have been unclear on that.

Sassyz75 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

I totally didn't want it to be personal.. I don' t even know you.. it was more of a sweeping generalization..

I guess you and I are opposites b/c I used to be a Republican- b/c I was making 6 figures a year and didn't think I needed anything from anybody.

But things really changed for me when the economy went bad and a lot of my friends (and me) suffered from sh!t jobs and we are still trying to make ends meet and put our lives back together.
september2004 Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?


Posted by Sassyz75
But things really changed for me when the economy went bad and a lot of my friends (and me) suffered from sh!t jobs and we are still trying to make ends meet and put our lives back together.


same here
heidla Posted:

Re: According to Bush- ownership of property/stock makes you have more of a stake in America?

I keep hearing that the economy is getting better, but since I am at the bottom of the ladder I guess it is going to be a while till I feel it. Ah, the trickle down system is great as long as you are on top.

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