Career Advice? LONG

I work in the financial industry, and have only worked for 3.5 years, and 1.5 of them at my current company. I have met a few sr. executive women so far, but it seems that their lifestyle may not fit in with what I have in mind.
All of these 'executive women' either:
a)are single
b)don't have children but are married
c)have children, but either father doesn't work or they have a full time/live in nanny, even for teenage age children.

Neither of these options appeals to me and I don't want to be a stay at home mom. Being that my family imigrated to the US, my parents and I do not know a lot of really senior people, and especially in the financial industry.

So I turn to you for help: Do you know any senior women who have managed to achieve career success, and yet have a normal family, with two people working and no full time nannies?

Am I living in a vacuum and this is not possible or is this whole live-in nanny thing specific to finance industry?

Any thoughts?

Thank you.

I worked in the financial industry for almost 14 years and it seemed to me that the woman that make it to the 'Top Exec' spots were those just like you described above. I think its very hard to have a family and put in the hours that a top exec job in the financial industry expects. Im NOT saying that a woman cant handle the job...quite the opposite...she will proberly do a better job than a man...its just that when there is a little one at home...the woman is the one that has to take time off to take them to the docs or drop them off at day care. That in its self is enough for top management to over look a woman for a top job!!

Fair or not thats the way it is.

Having a child changes EVERYTHING in your life. (I have heard
) and things that were important before...a new car, vacations, making it to a top exec position doesnt seem as important anymore. And peopel feel that your whole heart and soul is not in the job anymore!!

So, to sort of answer your question, anyone that I have worked with, that have had children, both parents work, not full time nanny...have been passed over for promotions many times.

I hope that helped and didnt discourage you from trying to break from the mold!

Hmmm...this is a good topic, yet, there are no right and wrong answers. Balancing career and family is something every individual does in their own way, and what suits them.

The question for you is :

*What do you consider 'normal' family life ? and what do you consider 'career success' ?

*If you value time spent with your children, then perhaps being a Senior Level exective may not be the right career path for you. If time spent with your children is something you value, you might want to choose a career that wont require so much of your time (senior level execs, im sure constantly have evening and weekend work-related plans).

I have read about women that have quit very high paying jobs, at very high levels, and changed careers to something less demanding, to be able to watch their children grow and take them out for breakfast, etc etc.

*If you value having a great career, making it to the top of that ladder, the more power to you !
There is nothing wrong with striving for success in the career world (i say GO WOMEN in the work force) Women are a bigger and bigger part of the workforce and I think its admirable and amazing that they can balance work and home...

If you do value a great career life, you will have to expect that somehow, someway, as the old saying goes 'something's gotta give'. Unfortunately we cant be at 2 places at the same time. We cant give 100% to 2 different worlds. But however you DO manage to balance the 2, and you WILL be able to balance them somehow, however you balance them will be up to you (and your DH)... the 'equation' for a healthy balance is different in every family situation

Decide what parts of your life you feel strongly about, want to grow at, where you want to be, what you want to do, and you will figure out how to balance the 2 the best you can.

As far as having a live-in nanny, i dont think its specific to any industry. There are execs in everything from retail, to art, to carpentry, that have achieved great success, are wealthy, and can afford a live-in nanny... That is not something I see as the norm, and I dont even think I would prefer that if i did have all the money in the world.
Again that is something that each individual will decide for themselves if they passed that bump in the road... I know one person that has a live in nanny AND she is a stay at home mom (With a BIG social agenda). I cant understand that mindset, but thats her perogative.

Good Luck to you in whatever you choose in life !

Sorry that I rambled on, hope my advice helped !

The reality of it is there are only so many hours in a day and you cant clone yourself. Everyone I know in a Sr Exec or near Sr Exec position dedicates many many hours to their career.
Children require many many hours and someone must be with them.

I dont believe that means there has to be a trade off, you just have to make it all work you and your family.

My future AUnt is a VP at colgate and she makes $$ and has a 5 yr old..

I do VERY well myself in fiance and I have no problems with my make peers..

U can DO ANYTHING you want to!!!!!!!

Much luck to you always!!!

Hey we if we LET the men rule they always will.. NOT THIS GIRL!

I have to agree with Anna that this situation is not unique to the finance world.

However, I don't think that there are a lot of women executives in the workplace that can effectively balance work and family. I have worked with many women who are in high powered positions like CMO, CTO or COO (in departments like IT, Operations and Marketing), and even though they appear to have it all in the bag, I have found out that in most (not all) cases it's simply not true! (Unfortunate as it may seem).

I have seen women executives experience guilt for missing milestones and events in their childrens or husband's lives; I have seen women execs have near break downs b/c they are trying to be all things to all people - both at home and in the workplace - and have NO time for themselves. I have seen many women (myself included) become dissatisfied with their careers b/c they just can't bring themselves to say No! to their employers when they reach their breaking point, and need to take time off or draw harder lines between work and home (keeping long hours, etc.)

I think that this is a very difficult issue to tackle. I think our society condemns Moms that want to stay home, AND condemns those that go back to work BUT still want to maintain certain boudaries in order to enjoy a FAMILY life. It is simply UNFAIR!

Well said, Claudine !!

Alina, where are you ? You started a great topic here, but we wanna hear your views too !

come on back !



PS-claudine-check your forum mail.

I agree with what many of you said. I think it really does boil down to: you can try to have it ALL, but it's very rare so don't set yourself up for disappointment if it doesn't work. Don't expect to be perfect in every aspect of your life (family/career). I think there was an Oprah show on this topic not too long ago (or maybe it was about motherhood?).

I have book that a friend gave me called 'Flux' by Peggy Orenstein. Definitely worth reading. It's about how girls are raised to get and education and after that the questions is 'when are you going to get married' and then 'when are you having kids?' and handle it all. The author interviewed many women of all different ages and educational backgrounds. Some had families and some were single. Some were SAHM and some were Executives. What I got from the book was that although women have come a long way in the work force, society (males) have not supported us in the same way.

Edited to add a description of the book from amazon.com:

'Peggy Orenstein’s bestselling Schoolgirls is the classic study of teenage girls and self-esteem. Now Orenstein uses the same interviewing and reporting skills to examine the lives of women in their 20s, 30s and 40s.

The advances of the women’s movement allow women to grow up with a sense of expanded possibilities. Yet traditional expectations have hardly changed. To discover how they are navigating this double burden personally and professionally, Orenstein interviewed hundreds of women and has blended their voices into a compelling narrative that gets deep inside their lives and choices. With unusual sensitivity, Orenstein offers insight and inspiration for every woman who is making important decisions of her own.'

I think you have to WANT to have an equal balance and have a man who will be willing to pitch in alot more then most.

Hey if you are making the$$ you will have it to spend on a house cleaner and someone to make the meals....

U live once !!!!!!

I love work and making $$ and knowing I don't have to worry but I can't wait to have my little babies waiting at home for me!!

Reading your question again, I think I have to be the pessimist here. With two people working in jobs that aren't 9-5 (And you can not be a senior executive and work 9-5), I think you absolutely have to have a full-time nanny or you are doing a disservice to your children.

Until they are old enough to drive, they need someone who can take them to piano lessons, dance class, soccer practice and you just won't be able. When you have to run to the office for an emergency meeting on Saturday, there isn't time to call a babysitter. Unless you live next door to your in laws, I don't see an alternative.

I do know senior woman who have achieved career success, and have a normal family with two people working -- but they all have elaborate support systems for what needs to be taken care of at home. You can't do it all yourself and do it all well.

This is not unique to the finance industry. The same pattern can be seen in the legal world and medicine.

Why are you so set against a nanny?

Thank you for all your responses!!!

My thoughts on this today are somewhat incomplete.

As recently as 1.5 yrs ago, before I met my fiance, was dying to work doing fixed income research on the sell side (requires you to be in at 7 and leave around 8pm or so). I was on the buyside then, having 8-5 or so hrs, and single, no serious relationships - basically life was too easy. As far as I was concerned, I was going to get a full-time MBA from one of the better schools, take out loans, meet my husband at MBA school, and following MBA, work on sell side research for a little while, and then move to do buyside work, to have better hrs to care for the baby. The company I previously worked at was a 'heaven' for moms, and many women works 3 or 4 days a week, and it was really a baby factory

I looked and found a new job. Not quite fixed income research, but equally challenging and interesting, doing things with real estate. Started a week before 9/11. My boss at that time (single 40some y/o with a dog) had her apartment near WTC, and it was no longer livable and some of her neighbors passed away. To make long story short, she quit around March, planning to do teaching. She became really overstressed and couldn't handle things any longer. Meanwhile, I have met a few senior women through various occasions, both inside and outside of my company and found the results posted in the first message.
Through all this time, my relationship with my now fiance improved, and prospects of marriage/children became much a clearer option than MBA, partially due to costs, and partially due to the research scandals in the industry.
I am now 25 and am totally paranoid of having fertility problems that I read many 'career' women have, although I am not ready and frankly, somewhat afraid of childbirth. My fiance (25) is more traditional than me, and would like to have the first child before 30, although he is also not ready for it.
I refuse to have a fulltime/live in nanny, because I think then the child will love the nanny more than parents and I would be jealous. In addition, the thought of a stranger living in my house simply irks me... Fi agrees.
Staying at home - I am afraid that I will go crazy being with the baby and later child/teenager full time. I really respect and somewhat envy other women who can do it, but today it doesn't seem like an option for me.
Husband staying at home is not an option!
An option that I would like to have is to work part time, but I don't believe many places offer something like that, especially in finance field. Perhaps working from 9-3, and then doing all the home things, cooking etc. While I don't necessarily want to be an executive, I would like to have intellectually challenging job, which I like and am proud of.

Oh, and as to what is a 'normal' life, to me thats both parents working, but home for dinner (7/8pm), free weekends as far as work related things are concerned, to be enjoyed by the whole family as together time. And enough flexibility to take a kid to a doctor if there is need.

That's kind of where I am today, a little confused, and not quite sure what to have for my career goals vs. personal goals.

Sorry for a long post.

Valenia:
I am set against the nanny b/c I feel that I would become to jealous of her relationship with children. I don't want my children to love and respect her more than me, and I am very much paranoid of that happening. Both fiance and I feel really weird about having a stranger living in the house, no matter how close that person may be.

Alina: A possible career move for you would be to go into the technology side of your business....your hours will be more livable and you can capitalize on the busienss experience you already have. Its still very political and requires dedication but not as much face time as research.

Its not possible to have a family life if you are working 80 hours a week - its just not. You have to find a job that is challenging, financially rewarding but respects the need for balance.

Also - you are going to have to get over the nanny jealousy. Even if you dont have a nanny, your children WILL BE under someones care while you are gone. Wouldnt you rather have them with someone they can love and will love them back than with some detached child care giver? Many families do this so their children arent required to spend their lives in overcrowded/understaffed daycare but still cant afford a live in.

Stef is right. Children will get attached to ANYONE that cares for them all day. My mom babysat a girl from when she was 2 months old till she was 7years old. She is still attached to my mom to this day. (she is now 10). The first week that she was not coming to our house anymore, she would get up in the middle of the night and look out the window and cry my mothers name ! (that picture stuck with me ever since her dad told us). It doesnt mean she doesnt love her own parents. but there is a bond that develops especially when its one-on-one. My mother adores her and she is like part of our family.

It really is a matter of what part of your life you are willing to make some sacrifices in..

I was gung-ho career woman until I got pregnant. I was even going on interviews while I was pregnant, because I was thinknig about continuing to work and have him at DH's company's daycare (and company daycares are not cheap either! shocked me that they are close to $900 a month). Anyway now that I have my son, I really cant see myself leaving him all day every day. Something part time, maybe, and I would only leave him with someone I trusted. (not to put down day cares at all or anyone who uses them).

Instead the career choice I've made, and I'm still in the process of pursuing, is to finish up my Masters in Education, and teach (out here in Suffolk preferably !!). I have always loved children, I even started this Masters about 5 years ago, and then got caught up in corporate America and got a great job in IT, and put it on the back burner... But now that Im at a crossroads, I see that, that is where my heart is. Working with kids, not to say that its much less stress. Im sure teachers have plenty of work to do after school and on weekends to keep them busy. and i'm sure their jobs are not simple, but the fact that the school schedules will work with my being off with my kids, and this is something i've always had in the back of my mind... I dont mind the paycut, for all the rewards it will offer in the long run......

Alina - I feel the same as you as far as what you said 'I would like to have intellectually challenging job, which I like and am proud of.' So I made sure I set new and different goals for myself now that my lifestyle has changed.

I think I'll continue doing my little bits of research, exploring possibilities both in and outside of finance field. Maybe look into a possibility of working in finance dept. of a manufacturing company? I am really afraid to try a totally different field, given how much I have invested in this one!

As to the nanny, somehow, I would feel better if my children were in daycare, rather than with a nanny, after about the age of 2 or so. I don't know why I feel that way, I have read and seen horror stories about both being bad, but somehow, I feel less jealous and more comfortable with the daycare place, with many kids rather than a one on one place. Maybe b/c I was in daycare from the age of 3? But that was back in USSR, where people actually had daycare as their occupation and they had training, etc. I don't know how regulated this industry is here.

Please reply with any suggestions/comments/resources, if you can.

I may try to keep this thread active, if I come up with helpful books, etc.

Alina

I do think its amazing how these questions starrt to sneak up on you once you start thinking about life after marriage. I work a HIGH stress exec position in advertising, worked my way up the ladder working 14 hour days (not including my 1 hour commute). This was when FH and I were long distance, so I did not mind getting up at 6a and getting home at 10pm, as I had a mini-family at work. Home was really a place I went to sleep and shower But now that I live w. FH, and we are getting married, the schedule is a lot less acceptable. I have cut the hours down somewhat, but I still leave the house at 8a and dont get home until 8p. There is no WAY I will do that when we have kids. FH was raised by a SAHM, so he wants me to do the same. I am not sure I am up for that. Like Anna, I have always thought of teaching as I love kids, so I may pursue that path in the coming years.
Most women in my industry who are in high level exec positions do not have children, or have nannys. Its difficult to work in that type of enviornment when you know that you do want kids, therefore the higher level hours are not going to work- I ask myself what I am working for, if not to be a VP someday....