Controversial Topic

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Posted by NYCHICK

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Posted by eroxgirl

Honestly, if I live to be 10000 I will never understand why you equate polygamy with discrimination against homosexuals.

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Please do tell where there is confusion, i will be more than happy to explain

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NYCHICK, if I'm understanding your point correctly, are you saying that these should all be considered equal in the definition of marriage??
'one man and one woman'
'one man and one man'
'two men and one woman'
etc

To be honest with you, I'm not really sure what the legal reasons are for polygamy being outlawed. I don't agree with it, but can't argue against it either.

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Posted by NIHA

NYCHICK, if I'm understanding your point correctly, are you saying that these should all be considered equal in the definition of marriage??
'one man and one woman'
'one man and one man'
'two men and one woman'
etc

To be honest with you, I'm not really sure what the legal reasons are for polygamy being outlawed. I don't agree with it, but can't argue against it either.

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Yes that is the point If someone can't find a good reason to bar them from marriage then you have them(same people as the rest of us) at the bottom of the pile. Alot of people carry on about equality but how do you decide, when to start/stop the equality......... ...which is why things such as these get so complicated because it is an all or nothng type situation, if you make conessions for one you should be making it for all.............after all that is equality right?

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Posted by Xelindrya

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Posted by Maribelle7777

I'm not slamming, I hope! And I agree it's not a simple thing. Many other laws would be invalided by making same sex marriage legal I think and it will certainly cause a domino effect somewhere, but I still think that it's only fair to let same sex monogamous couples marry just like heterosexual couples.

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Nope no slam. You see what I saying perfectly. Too many questions.

I see that domino effect in my mind. So I can't say I 100% support any of this screaming and protesting.

I think I understand what they deserve and I agree, but I think they are going about the wrong way. Although I agree with the current atmosphere of politics and the way the public tries so hard to please everyone, it's a good time to take advantage of the public opinion. I just hope they don't get burned by pushing this too hard. Change never happens overnight and change that is forced is usually the one that is most fought against. That type of forced change inititives always have a price. I just hope the price isn't too high.

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I can't really think of any other way to go about getting it legalized to be honest, but it does seem funny that it's election year and this is coming up.

While I see a domino effect - I don't see why certain laws cannot be changed to reflect passage of same sex marriage. And I do'nt think it will lead to marriage of animals. The law can state 'human' - we can make the laws say anything they want. We write the laws, not the other way around

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Posted by eroxgirl

Well prohibition of gay marriage is discriminating against gay people.

Outlawing polygamy does not discriminate against anyone. It does not tell any person/group/race/ethnicity that they CANNOT do something that all other people are legally allowed to do.

NO ONE is legally allowed to be a polygamist in this country (as far as I'm aware). EVERYONE except homosexuals are allowed to marry.

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*insert smiley face jumping up and down and clapping hands*

Beyond Rebecca'a excellent points let me add a few more -

Polygamy is most commonly practiced as having more than one WIFE. So polygamy has been linked with many social ills such as domestic violence against women, incest and welfare fraud to name a few. It is has been linked with cults and the total dominance of woman. You don't hear many groups seeking polyandry (more than one HUSBAND) becaues that leaves paternity of children in question. I have a hard time understanding why you equate a practice which has been used to demean and control woman with gay marriage.

Please tell me me what harm gay marriage would cause to our society?

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Posted by NYCHICK

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Posted by NIHA

NYCHICK, if I'm understanding your point correctly, are you saying that these should all be considered equal in the definition of marriage??
'one man and one woman'
'one man and one man'
'two men and one woman'
etc

To be honest with you, I'm not really sure what the legal reasons are for polygamy being outlawed. I don't agree with it, but can't argue against it either.

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Yes that is the point If someone can't find a good reason to bar them from marriage then you have them(same people as the rest of us) at the bottom of the pile. Alot of people carry on about equality but how do you decide, when to start/stop the equality......... ...which is why things such as these get so complicated because it is an all or nothng type situation, if you make conessions for one you should be making it for all.............after all that is equality right?

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So by this argument, maybe men and women shouldn't be able to be married?

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Posted by NYCHICK

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Posted by eroxgirl

I strongly believe that its a matter of discrimination. That was why I said I DO NOT support discrimination. I see absolutely no reason to prevent CONSENTING ADULTS from marrying. .

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Your post basically says what I am saying.....Polygamists are grown men and women who choose to share in that lifestyle.....why are they not allowed, how is it different than homosexuality....and don't say they didn't choose it because AI am sure polygamists could say the same thing.

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I'm not saying anything near what you're saying. Maybe I should have specified 2 consenting adults, my mistake. And I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE it is not a 'chosen' lifestyle. In my mind there is NO DOUBT that it is a biological mutation or nature's way of population control (one of my million theories - won't bother getting into it now because that's not my point).

WHO in their right mind would CHOOSE to be subjected to the prejudice, the constant threat of bodily harm, the increased risk of disease? Believe me, the gay family members and friends that I have would have had a MUCH easier life had they been born heterosexual. But they weren't.

I believe, although I don't mean to associate homosexuality with a disability, but its the only example I can come up with - people are born blind, deaf, without limbs, etc. They can wallow in self pity and die, they can live a lie, or they can embrace their situation and overcome it. That's exactly how I see homosexuality. It happens - its not the norm but it happens. You deal with it and enjoy this life or you don't. Why do you think so many homosexual kids kill themselves??? Because they WANT to be gay? No! Because they HAVE NO CHOICE but they're afraid of the backlash of their families, society, etc. I think thats very sad.

Polygamists aren't BORN. That's a CHOICE. 'I choose to be with 4, 5, 6 women at a time because I am so full of self importance that I need to spread my seed all around.' That's how I see it. No where near the same thing.

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Posted by ChristineC68

So by this argument, maybe men and women shouldn't be able to be married?

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Why am I hearing Judd Nelson in my head - 'Why does Andrew get to get up? If he gets up, we'll all get up. It'll be ANARCHY.'

It is guite simple to change the law to allow gay marriage without a free for all result where anyone can marry as many people as they want.

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Posted by Becky

*insert smiley face jumping up and down and clapping hands*

Beyond Rebecca'a excellent points let me add a few more -

Polygamy is most commonly practiced as having more than one WIFE. So polygamy has been linked with many social ills such as domestic violence against women, incest and welfare fraud to name a few. It is has been linked with cults and the total dominance of woman. You don't hear many groups seeking polyandry (more than one HUSBAND) becaues that leaves paternity of children in question. I have a hard time understanding why you equate a practice which has been used to demean and control woman with gay marriage.

Please tell me me what harm gay marriage would cause to our society?

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O please, if someone wanted to find a study they could find one saying the same things about homosexuality, like they could spread AIDS or some BS like that. It is a very simple concept really, people of mature age choosing a lifestyle, they should be allowed to practice, I don't know what the difference between the two is actually..........? I am sure they don't either

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Posted by ChristineC68

So by this argument, maybe men and women shouldn't be able to be married?

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no where did my argument suggest that........

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Posted by eroxgirl

I'm not saying anything near what you're saying. Maybe I should have specified 2 consenting adults, my mistake. And I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE it is not a 'chosen' lifestyle. In my mind there is NO DOUBT that it is a biological mutation or nature's way of population control (one of my million theories - won't bother getting into it now because that's not my point).

WHO in their right mind would CHOOSE to be subjected to the prejudice, the constant threat of bodily harm, the increased risk of disease? Believe me, the gay family members and friends that I have would have had a MUCH easier life had they been born heterosexual. But they weren't.

I believe, although I don't mean to associate homosexuality with a disability, but its the only example I can come up with - people are born blind, deaf, without limbs, etc. They can wallow in self pity and die, they can live a lie, or they can embrace their situation and overcome it. That's exactly how I see homosexuality. It happens - its not the norm but it happens. You deal with it and enjoy this life or you don't. Why do you think so many homosexual kids kill themselves??? Because they WANT to be gay? No! Because they HAVE NO CHOICE but they're afraid of the backlash of their families, society, etc. I think thats very sad.

Polygamists aren't BORN. That's a CHOICE. 'I choose to be with 4, 5, 6 women at a time because I am so full of self importance that I need to spread my seed all around.' That's how I see it. No where near the same thing.

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Now that is a bit of an outlandish thing to say. I have heard many st8 people say they love more than one person at one time....And you can't TELL someone how they are born etc. And even if it is a choice, again they are of a mature age to make such a choice. Hate to equate it but here goes, what is the difference between a married couple that engage in swinging/adultery and polygamy......?

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Posted by NYCHICK

O please, if someone wanted to find a study they could find one saying the same things about homosexuality, like they could spread AIDS or some BS like that. It is a very simple concept really, people of mature age choosing a lifestyle, they should be allowed to practice, I don't know what the difference between the two is actually..........? I am sure they don't either

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I am not sure what your argument is. Are you arguing against gay marriage or FOR polygamy?? Also, do you really think that polygamy is biological or are you saying that homosexuality is a choice???

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Posted by NYCHICK

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Posted by ChristineC68

So by this argument, maybe men and women shouldn't be able to be married?

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no where did my argument suggest that........

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Here...

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Posted by NYCHICK


Yes that is the point If someone can't find a good reason to bar them from marriage then you have them(same people as the rest of us) at the bottom of the pile. Alot of people carry on about equality but how do you decide, when to start/stop the equality......... ...which is why things such as these get so complicated because it is an all or nothng type situation, if you make conessions for one you should be making it for all.............after all that is equality right?

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My question refers to the all or nothing. If gay marraiges and multi-marraiges are not legal, maybe heterosexual marraiges shouldn't be either.

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Posted by ChristineC68

My question refers to the all or nothing. If gay marraiges and multi-marraiges are not legal, maybe heterosexual marraiges shouldn't be either.

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Or let all who choose to participate in marriage, should be allowed to...........You swung my argument the other way

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Posted by Becky

I am not sure what your argument is. Are you arguing against gay marriage or FOR polygamy?? Also, do you really think that polygamy is biological or are you saying that homosexuality is a choice???

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I am arguing for polygamy because in my eyes they are not that far apart. People pumping their fists in the name f equlity don't seem to think that polygamists are worthy of this 'equality'...I find this very odd.....

Well, I view polygamy, at its very core, to be unequal. There is one person (invariable a man) who has several wives. Those wives are not permitted to have other relationships with other men, only their shared husband. Each wife is taken on to bear more children, which I think is demeaning. The wive makes much more of a committment than the the husband does. The fact that there are women who are willing to live this lifestyle does not make it okay. There are also woman willing to walk the streets as prostitutes. Should we make that legal as well?

When we are talking about homosexuals marrying we are talking about a committment between two equal partners to live their lives together the same as a heterosexual couple does.

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Posted by NYCHICK

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Posted by Becky

I am not sure what your argument is. Are you arguing against gay marriage or FOR polygamy?? Also, do you really think that polygamy is biological or are you saying that homosexuality is a choice???

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I am arguing for polygamy because in my eyes they are not that far apart. People pumping their fists in the name f equlity don't seem to think that polygamists are worthy of this 'equality'...I find this very odd.....

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I'm confused, when you say they are not that far apart, do you mean the being in a gay relationship is the equal to being in a marriage with more than one spouse? That doesn't make sense to me.

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Posted by Becky

Well, I view polygamy, at its very core, to be unequal. There is one person (invariable a man) who has several wives. Those wives are not permitted to have other relationships with other men, only their shared husband. Each wife is taken on to bear more children, which I think is demeaning. The wive makes much more of a committment than the the husband does. The fact that there are women who are willing to live this lifestyle does not make it okay. There are also woman willing to walk the streets as prostitutes. Should we make that legal as well?

When we are talking about homosexuals marrying we are talking about a committment between two equal partners to live their lives together the same as a heterosexual couple does.

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Some of these arguments are the same about what the anti-gay marriage people are using........which is also my point. When someone takes it upon themselves to make decisions such as these, there is bound to be injustice. Prostitution is a 'victimless crime' therefore why not make it legal?

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Posted by NYCHICK

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Posted by eroxgirl

I'm not saying anything near what you're saying. Maybe I should have specified 2 consenting adults, my mistake. And I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE it is not a 'chosen' lifestyle. In my mind there is NO DOUBT that it is a biological mutation or nature's way of population control (one of my million theories - won't bother getting into it now because that's not my point).

WHO in their right mind would CHOOSE to be subjected to the prejudice, the constant threat of bodily harm, the increased risk of disease? Believe me, the gay family members and friends that I have would have had a MUCH easier life had they been born heterosexual. But they weren't.

I believe, although I don't mean to associate homosexuality with a disability, but its the only example I can come up with - people are born blind, deaf, without limbs, etc. They can wallow in self pity and die, they can live a lie, or they can embrace their situation and overcome it. That's exactly how I see homosexuality. It happens - its not the norm but it happens. You deal with it and enjoy this life or you don't. Why do you think so many homosexual kids kill themselves??? Because they WANT to be gay? No! Because they HAVE NO CHOICE but they're afraid of the backlash of their families, society, etc. I think thats very sad.

Polygamists aren't BORN. That's a CHOICE. 'I choose to be with 4, 5, 6 women at a time because I am so full of self importance that I need to spread my seed all around.' That's how I see it. No where near the same thing.

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Now that is a bit of an outlandish thing to say. I have heard many st8 people say they love more than one person at one time....And you can't TELL someone how they are born etc. And even if it is a choice, again they are of a mature age to make such a choice. Hate to equate it but here goes, what is the difference between a married couple that engage in swinging/adultery and polygamy......?

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Which part is outlandish? The I want to spread my seed part? Or the self importance part? Maybe it is, but I'm an outlandish kind of girl. I can almost guarantee that 'spreading my seed' is part of the reasoning behind it. I've heard it before - I didn't make it up in my own mind. We're back to biology again. But I don't care to argue about polygamy. The two will never equate for me.

Once again, that doesn't discriminate against A SPECIFIC GROUP. It is prohibited for all.

And I don't understand what you mean by 'you cant TELL someone how they were born?' I'm not telling anyway. I've been told by gay people I know that they were aware of their homosexuality as small, pre-pubescent children. And that was without any visible example of homosexuality in their lives.

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Posted by NIHA

I'm confused, when you say they are not that far apart, do you mean the being in a gay relationship is the equal to being in a marriage with more than one spouse? That doesn't make sense to me.

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Not far apart meaning the way it is viewed by people. Many people think that homosexuality is just as wrong as polygamy, if not more because of the procreation issue...........

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Posted by eroxgirl


Which part is outlandish? The I want to spread my seed part? Or the self importance part? Maybe it is, but I'm an outlandish kind of girl. I can almost guarantee that 'spreading my seed' is part of the reasoning behind it. I've heard it before - I didn't make it up in my own mind. We're back to biology again. But I don't care to argue about polygamy. The two will never equate for me.

Once again, that doesn't discriminate against A SPECIFIC GROUP. It is prohibited for all.

And I don't understand what you mean by 'you cant TELL someone how they were born?' I'm not telling anyway. I've been told by gay people I know that they were aware of their homosexuality as small, pre-pubescent children. And that was without any visible example of homosexuality in their lives.

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Yes the spreading your seed part. Would it make it better if they did not procreate and just had many wives(back to my swinging/adultery issue).........I know it is prohibited for all, that is the point..WHY? Gay marriage is prohibited by ALL also. Just like you can't see how the two are the same is the same the anti-gay marriage people can't equate hoterosexual relationships to homosexual ones.............