I cant wait to have kids-All the women in my office that have kids get to go home early Its not fair

I understand what you are saying, but that is why we have vacation days, sick days, in some cases personal days. Beyond that, it needs to be unpaid time. (I don't mean an hour here or there)

Which of course is no one business but the employee, their manager and HR (which has been stated above).

OK, my.2 cents! These woman who get to leave early or work from home one day y week because they are moms ARE NOT really working from home per se! Not all of them! I know it for sure because i used to work with a woman on that scedule. I could never reach her or get her answer my e-maill on the day she was 'WORKIING FROM HOME!' Who knows what she was doing taking her kinds to the zoo or something!

It all depends of how well of a negotiator you are! If you got youself a 'work from home day' in your contract-good, if not-tough! They are notworking any harder! Believe me!

It was a joke of the office! We would always say that we should all stuff a pillow under our cloth and show up in HR!

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Posted by ChristineC68

I understand what you are saying, but that is why we have vacation days, sick days, in some cases personal days. Beyond that, it needs to be unpaid time. (I don't mean an hour here or there)

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But then you have to account not just your sick/personal days, but also those of school closings, baby sitter getting sick or unable to come, etc... When you see how difficult it is to find appropriate childcare, its no surprise we have so many screwed up kids!!!

just curious...maybe these mothers who leave...do use their vacation/personal/sick days


we all have the right to family sick leave....children, siblings or parents...

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Posted by WhatNow?

OK, my.2 cents! These woman who get to leave early or work from home one day y week because they are moms ARE NOT really working from home per se! Not all of them! I know it for sure because i used to work with a woman on that scedule. I could never reach her or get her answer my e-maill on the day she was 'WORKIING FROM HOME!' Who knows what she was doing taking her kinds to the zoo or something!

It all depends of how well of a negotiator you are! If you got youself a 'work from home day' in your contract-good, if not-tough! They are notworking any harder! Believe me!

It was a joke of the office! We would always say that we should all stuff a pillow under our cloth and show up in HR!

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I guess I work with more ethical people. Out of the group of 5, we have 2 moms and 1 dad. The moms both have hubbies working, but both work from home occasionally and easily accessible via cell phones/home phones. If they don't pick up, then they return phone calls, usually within an hour or two. The dad in my group has a stay at home wife/mom, hence, hardly ever leaves early, etc.

Well I am about to become a mother and have been a full-time corporate employee for many years so here is my opinion on this matter.

When I was single, no kids, no pets, no house...work was my life. I worked late every night. I was one of the employees (along with Claud2001 at the time, we worked together) who could travel on a day's notice and stay away on weekends. I didn't mind 6pm meetings. I would get beeped at night and that was fine by me...and oh, because of those sacrifices then I was able to get established, learn a lot and get other job offers for more money. Fast forward to today- I don't work those long hours anymore, I very, very rarely travel and oh, I EARN my position and salary. I am not paid because I put in a certain amount of hours each day. I am paid for my knowledge and ability.

Many of the women who leave early or miss 6pm meetings are not slackers. And many of them would have the same priviledges because of their status in the industry/company.

When I got my current job I worked out a good deal with my employer. I was allowed to work from home on a few days per week. I was not pregnant yet or even married yet. It had ZERO to do with being a working mom. It had to do with my own, personal employement contract with the company.

Since I have had complications with my pregnancy my boss has allowed me full-time working from home. I KNOW some people at my company are jealous or might think it isn't fair BUT TOUGH LUCK. I has nothing to do with them at all. Not everyone at the company knows that I have had problems during my pregnancy and honestly is it NONE of their business why I am working from home either.It is between my boss and I.

Stop complaining about what others are allowed to do. Work hard at your own careers and if you want a sweetier deal someplace else then make a move.

See, it's all about negotiating a good contract for your self!

Good for you, Michele!

you go Michele!!

well said.

I work in HR and as long as what needs to get done is done, what's the big deal?

There are some excellent points made here. I sympathsize (sp?) for working mothers, it's not an easy deal at all. But as a childless person, I resent the implication at times that I am some how not as important . I am always being told by women I work with 'Oh, you don't have kids, you don't know what tired/stressed/love/work is......' EXCUSE ME?!! (sorry - little rant...)
I don't believe that people should get special treatment based on whether they've procreated or not. If you need time off, use your time. As long as the work is being done, I don't mind.

To be honest, I have never thought twice about this. I work with mostly all women who are mothers and need to leave early at times and sometimes dont come in at all due to 'children situations.' IMO..thats their right and I agree with the fact that my time will come as well. And when it does, I would hate to think that my coworkers looked at me differently or felt bitter towards me because I felt the need to take care of my children. I am sure your views would and will change once you have your own along with a lot of other people's.

I always accept it when coworkers get a little more leniency for having a child because somewhere down the line it will be me. Plus, I admire them for being a working woman AND a mom too. Its not easy.

I wasn't going to make any specific comments on this, but I really feel that I should.

First of all, I think it's a fact that there will always be people who abuse the system. Some of them are the parents that many of you are all upset at. But it's wrong to say that all working parents abuse their managers' leniency because of a few bad ones.
On a daily basis, I am amazed at how much time workers (including myself) in my office spend chatting, lunching, making personal phone calls, surfing the net, etc.. So when a mom or dad needs to leave early to attend a child-related event I applaud it!

With so much wrong with society and parenting nowadays, we should all be supportive of those who actually do their jobs AND still make time to be there for their children. If more parents put their children first, our society would be much better off.

And for the record, just because someone sits in an office for 12 hours, it does not mean they got any more work done than the individual who was in for 8 hours!

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Posted by alina

... these women that leave early are most likely doing extra work/reading at home!!! After the kids are asleep!!!

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Of women I know who consistently complain how they must leave early 'today' because of this or that (kid related) and skip out of work before everything is done, or rush others so their work can get wrapped up for the day .. none of them is taking any work home.

Maybe somewhere some women are taking work home .. but not everywhere .. and it's as unfair as smokers going out constantly for cigarette breaks while the non-smokers are the suckers stuck at their desks. Seriously, when you add up the time some people take throughout the day to puff away on cigarettes .. it equals out to another lunch hour. (Sorry for getting sidetracked here .. but I find this equally annoying).

It's one thing when parents skip out early once in a while .. but quite another when it's a frequent occurance .. and that's what bothers me.

theres a great African proverb...'it takes a village to raise a child'...

it seems many of us forget this...in order to have productive, well educated, responsible leaders when we reach our golden years...we need to nuture children and not mock their mothers for trying to do so...


when we don't have social security in 40 years - or politicians vote to get rid of Medicare - or not regulate prescription drug coasts - will we think of the comments we made about the working mothers - who tried to raise their children, but their coworkers bitched and complained, so their children were latch key kids?


there seems to be a lot of threads that are started to get a rise out of people...but the sad part is that people read these right wing opinions and think it is normal...as women we should be working together to help our gender get further....

Why do so few of us recognise that raising children to some degree is a job, with benefits shown later in a future... These are societal and economic benefits, yet so few of us recognize how important it is to dedicate an appropriate amount of attention to this 'job'.
The benefits are not just to the parents of a child but to the rest of the community as well.

While I understand most of us are not being 'paid' to raise kids, someone needs to do this job and do it right. And when you talk about frequency of time taken off, there may be potentially imbalance, b/c its possible that its the mom who takes the kid to all the doctor visits and dad hardly ever takes off (nor is there an expectation from the workplaces to have dads take time off). But seriously, when the kids are little (pre-school years), whenever they get sick, you pretty much have to pick them up, etc. And its not like everyone lives near their jobs or the daycare.

I think it is sad that women face this sort of sentiment from men, but that they have to deal with it from other women is even sadder.

I was surprised to still see this thread on the top of the page when I woke up this morning. This is the first time I have had such an emotional reaction to a thread and I have been either crying or shaking with rage since I read it since it has brought back so many memories. (So this may not make a lot of sense as it is slightly off topic and a little long – I apologize in advance for this.)

IMO, bottom line is when you accept a job there are certain terms and conditions you agree to. I am expected to perform certain tasks, meet deadlines and work a certain number of hours. I agreed to the personal time I am permitted to take and deal with it. It should not be up to co-workers or employers to suck it up because someone is a parent. A company cannot make random exceptions and have different rules for different people that work for them. Generally, I think most people are more then willing to be accommodating and flexible so long as it’s not abused - that’s when bitterness builds and morale falls for the co-workers.

I went two years without taking a vacation because my grandmother was very sick and her out of state funeral would have been unpaid and at the time I could not afford to not get paid.

I was denied by a “motherly” supervisor when I asked to cut my hours and salary for a short time so I can help my mother take care of my dying father because it was not fair to my co-workers. Then 10 days later when my mother called me home at 9.00am on a Friday to help her with my dad, I walked out the door with this same woman telling me to be sure to come in on Monday. So I spent the last 2 days of my father’s life wondering how someone could say something so callous to a 23 year old woman with her father so close to death.

I guess these events could have led me to where I think people should be allowed even more flexibility then others but I went the other way completely since the few times I did ask for some special short term allowances someone started waving policies in my face.

Michelle, I want to say that I think it’s incredible that you were able to work out the arrangement you have with your employer. It speaks volumes for the value you are to your employer and the type of company you work for. I also think that an arrangement like this is an exception versus the norm. Hopefully that will change in the future and something I will keep in mind when I decide make a job change.

edited for grammer & spelling.

Christine, I sympathize with what you went through.
I think we are overlooking the fact, however, that most employees don't just decide on their own to get up and leave work in order to attend to a child. They most likely have made previous arrangements with their boss. Therefore, they are not 'cheating' the company or abusing any privilege.
I know that when I have my child I do not intend to cut back on my work hours at all. I am lucky in that I probably won't have to. However, many of my 'mom' friends at work can only work a certain number of days or hours per week. It is impossible for them to do otherwise. They have made this arrangement with their supervisor and as long as their boss is okay with it, I don't understand how anyone else can have a problem with it.
Some might be jealous of their 'easier' work schedules, but I'm not. These same women will most definitely be passed up for promotions and other opportunities at work because of their work schedules, regardless of the quality of their work. But, that is the price they have agreed to pay for this sort of flexibility.

Christine that is an awful situation your manager put you through and I can understand why then it doesn't seem fair. But some of these working woman (not the abusers of the system) really make a tremendous 'career' sacrifice in order to have a family. They face criticism from their peers, and they are limited in their advancment opportunities.

I work with a woman who has worked here for 10 years. She currently leaves at 4:30 p.m. (everyone leaves at 6pm) in order to pick up her son from daycare everyday. She is the only working mom in our department. All the other women in the office talk about her behind her back b/c she gets to leave early. This lady works very hard throughout the day and I sympathize that she runs out of here and makes 1 1/2 hour commute to get her son. This makes me feel terrible because I see that there would be no way I could work here and raise a child. I wouldn't even dare tell anyone here that I would even consider getting pregnant. I think that's sad.

On top of this last week she officially announced she is pregnant again so now everyone is making snide comments about how 'she's not coming back.' It's really horrible and I sometimes feel sorry that I even hear this crap. They have already started giving her less work to do.

And for the record the evening of the blackout both her and her husband couldn't even get to the daycare upstate from Manhattan. A neighbor had to care for him for the entire night and the poor kid was hysterical wondering where his parents were. I say this to illustrate that its not always easy street juggling both.

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Posted by ILT1221

Christine that is an awful situation your manager put you through and I can understand why then it doesn't seem fair. But some of these working woman (not the abusers of the system) really make a tremendous 'career' sacrifice in order to have a family. They face criticism from their peers, and they are limited in their advancment opportunities.

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I agree with you about woman having to make career sacrific but I have a reverse story for you.

I was working for a big bank and my mannger and his wife decided to split the day car responsibility. I thought...wow that is GREAT...so each week they would switch on and off who would leave at 4pm to pick up the baby. Well, needless to day, the woman did not get promoted to a higher level officer while the man took just as much 'time off' as she did, he did get promoted!! So it look like to boys club did it again!!

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Posted by ChristineC68
I have been either crying or shaking with rage since I read it since it has brought back so many memories.

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Christine...this is the first time I think we have disagreed!!!


I think you had an awful boss...and at least today there is family sick leave to deal with a sick parent....