Saw it at SONY Lincoln Plaza theatres last night. It's shattering. I felt as if I had run a marathon by the time it was over. Some parts are very funny, and other parts are just devastating.
I'm a big fan of his work, though I do think that Michael Moore's general obnoxiousness sometimes gets in the way in this film. I think he could tone down some of the sarcastic narration - but this is a Michael Moore documentary and so I should expect it.
People will debate the validity of many of his claims and he does go out of his way to provide source material for much of what he says. I wasn't able to make some of the leaps that he was asking me to make - but I left the theatre very thankful that this film was made and that certain questions were being asked of this administration and the news media. Regardless of whether people agree on the issues the film raises - it's the asking of the questions that in my opinion is the most valuable contribution.
I highly recommend it. . . I haven't stopped thinking about it all day.
mcb225
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by verdila
I want to see the film as well - I thought Bowling for Columbine was very thought-provoking but I also take Michael Moore's documentaries with a grain of salt. I have read that much of his editing and telling of the stories are not accurate. That they are really just his version of the truth - so not really documentaries. More like fictionalized films based on real events.
One note: the guy who wrote this 'Bowling for Truth' website, Richard Bushnell, is a cartoonist whose favorite TV shows include 'The O'Reilly Factor' and Fox News. In other words, he isn't less biased or more reliable than Michael Moore himself.
One note: the guy who wrote this 'Bowling for Truth' website, Richard Bushnell, is a cartoonist whose favorite TV shows include 'The O'Reilly Factor' and Fox News. In other words, he isn't less biased or more reliable than Michael Moore himself.
Yes, but I have read on numerous places that Michael Moore distorts the truth and manipulates things to prove HIS point and serve HIS agenda. Of course, this other guy may be biased but my point is that Michael Moore's documentaries arent always the COMplete and whole truth. Editing tricks and voiceovers and all can do that...
There are always other points of view and while his films may be thought provoking - I am not sure how truthful they are.
One note: the guy who wrote this 'Bowling for Truth' website, Richard Bushnell, is a cartoonist whose favorite TV shows include 'The O'Reilly Factor' and Fox News. In other words, he isn't less biased or more reliable than Michael Moore himself.
Yes, but I have read on numerous places that Michael Moore distorts the truth and manipulates things to prove HIS point and serve HIS agenda. Of course, this other guy may be biased but my point is that Michael Moore's documentaries arent always the COMplete and whole truth. Editing tricks and voiceovers and all can do that...
There are always other points of view and while his films may be thought provoking - I am not sure how truthful they are.
Your point and mine are pretty much the same. I don't think anyone out there is completely unbiased and truthful -- Moore, Bushnell, or anybody. I think we agree on that. My main concern is this: all criticisms of Moore ALSO need to be taken with a grain of salt. Clearly, lots of people with VERY political agendas are trying to rip the film to shreds.
marymoon
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
I loved the movie. I think everyone should see it. The family ties thing is absolutely true and documentable. But abut it being baised.. EVERYTHING you see is biased. The news on TV is invreibly biased to the right, this is incredibly biased to the left, but at least he doens't hide it (like the news does), and biased doens't mean it's not factual.. every news article you read/see is an editorial. keep that in mind.
chicagogal
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
I thought it was very good too. I can't believe how packed it was. I agree that Michael Moore can be overbearing and a little flippant in his attitude. I'm not sure any of this stuff should be funny. It was definitely very though provoking. It really did make Bush look like a total insensitve jerk!
mv1003
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
I saw it and thought it definitely make people raise an eyebrow and question the administration. Although, I heard the 9/11 report is due out soon, and the comittee is blaming the CIA. I guess I'll have to see when the report comes out. This is no defense to Bush, b/c I believe he knew something about the attacks and did nothing to really prevent it. If the scene of him sitting in the classroom for that LONG of a period of time (7 minutes) after hearing our nation was under attack is true- Wow! It's really a shame!
Karen H
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
This isn't the first time I've seen someone posting about Bush sitting in the classroom for a period of time after being informed of the planes hitting the towers.
What do you think he should have done? Jump up, rush out of the room, panic the children and stand in the hallway on a cellphone???
If I recall correctly, he was told of the first plane when ALL OF AMERICA thought it was an accidental incedent - many of the initial reports were of it being a small plane. How should he react then? It wasn't until the second plane hit and it was clear they were jetliners that it became clear something more serious was happening.
I also recall reports that they were setting up a secure communication hook-up in another classroom and as soon as that was ready he was taken to that room where he could start getting information and giving direction.
It's ridiculous to criticize in hindsight that it took less than 10 minutes to begin taking action when the first information was sketchy at best. An uninformed knee-jerk reaction is not what we want from a president.
cocoa
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by Karen H
This isn't the first time I've seen someone posting about Bush sitting in the classroom for a period of time after being informed of the planes hitting the towers.
What do you think he should have done? Jump up, rush out of the room, panic the children and stand in the hallway on a cellphone???
If I recall correctly, he was told of the first plane when ALL OF AMERICA thought it was an accidental incedent - many of the initial reports were of it being a small plane. How should he react then? It wasn't until the second plane hit and it was clear they were jetliners that it became clear something more serious was happening.
I also recall reports that they were setting up a secure communication hook-up in another classroom and as soon as that was ready he was taken to that room where he could start getting information and giving direction.
It's ridiculous to criticize in hindsight that it took less than 10 minutes to begin taking action when the first information was sketchy at best. An uninformed knee-jerk reaction is not what we want from a president.
while i'm not a big bush advocate, i will agree that a panicked jump and dart to leave the room would not have been the right thing to do. however, he could have calmly said, excuse boys and girls and mrs. smith, being a president means that I am always on the job and there is something that i must attend to. It was a pleasure meeting with all of you, but I hope you will excuse me. Thank you.
Jan05Bride
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
The initial reaction of the entire country / media outles / etc is that a small plane hit the world trade center (which had happened before), there was no reason for anyone to suspect terrorist attacks until a few minutes later.
Hindsight is always 20/20.
takeoutcook
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
He was informed of the first plane hitting the tower before he went into the elementary school classroom photo-op. He continued with the photo-op. He was informed of the SECOND plane hitting the tower while sitting in front of the children watching them do a literacy lesson. He continued to sit there for 7 minutes reading 'my pet goat.'
Calmly standing up and excusing yourself to meet with advisors and get more information is what I demand of my President, no matter who he/she is.
shelzyp
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
I knew from the first plane that it was a terrorist attack!! He is the president he should have known.
BMD'sPeanut
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by Karen H
This isn't the first time I've seen someone posting about Bush sitting in the classroom for a period of time after being informed of the planes hitting the towers.
What do you think he should have done? Jump up, rush out of the room, panic the children and stand in the hallway on a cellphone???
If I recall correctly, he was told of the first plane when ALL OF AMERICA thought it was an accidental incedent - many of the initial reports were of it being a small plane. How should he react then? It wasn't until the second plane hit and it was clear they were jetliners that it became clear something more serious was happening.
I also recall reports that they were setting up a secure communication hook-up in another classroom and as soon as that was ready he was taken to that room where he could start getting information and giving direction.
It's ridiculous to criticize in hindsight that it took less than 10 minutes to begin taking action when the first information was sketchy at best. An uninformed knee-jerk reaction is not what we want from a president.
Great post!
BMD'sPeanut
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by mv1003
This is no defense to Bush, b/c I believe he knew something about the attacks and did nothing to really prevent it.
Do you really believe that GB knew that jetliners were going to be highjacked on 9/11 and flown into the WTC and did nothing to try to stop it? I'm not saying that security isn't sorely lacking in this country...But still...I absolutely refuse to believe that anyone knew any such specific details of a horrific planned attack and intentionally did nothing to prevent it from happening...Because if that's the truth, then we should all move out of the country...
cocoa
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by shelzyp
I knew from the first plane that it was a terrorist attack!! He is the president he should have known.
my grandmother and i thought it too...we were watching the news, it came on, and she's like 'that was not a mistake' and then the second plane hit. a small plane would not do THAT much damage.
Karen H
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by cocoa
Posted by shelzyp
I knew from the first plane that it was a terrorist attack!! He is the president he should have known.
my grandmother and i thought it too...we were watching the news, it came on, and she's like 'that was not a mistake' and then the second plane hit. a small plane would not do THAT much damage.
I suppose it depends on how early on you got the report and what you saw. The first report I heard was as I pulled into a parking lot at work - the radio newscasters reacted to something they saw on a TV screen in their studio, and they were saying they thought it was a small commuter plane or private plane. I know others that got that information initially too. I turned on CNN.com when I logged onto my computer and all you saw was smoke, with still no indication that it was a large plane. Obviously by the time the second plane hit it was clearly a different story. It doesn't matter if he's the President or the Pope, he still needs CONFIRMED, ACCURATE information and he's dependent the communication coming in and confirmations being sought by his advisors - as I said, he couldn't exactly run into the hallway and make a cellphone call - SECURE communication was being set up - Wow - that took all of 7 minutes - pretty darn quick in my book.
Karen H
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by cocoa
while i'm not a big bush advocate, i will agree that a panicked jump and dart to leave the room would not have been the right thing to do. however, he could have calmly said, excuse boys and girls and mrs. smith, being a president means that I am always on the job and there is something that i must attend to. It was a pleasure meeting with all of you, but I hope you will excuse me. Thank you.
I still say that until the secure communication was set up and confirmed, leaving the room would do no good, and in fact may have been a secret service issue - I'm sure they would prefer he move from one secured area to another, rather than milling about in a hallway while they arranged for the secure communication in another classroom.
Sassyz75
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by Karen H
Posted by cocoa
while i'm not a big bush advocate, i will agree that a panicked jump and dart to leave the room would not have been the right thing to do. however, he could have calmly said, excuse boys and girls and mrs. smith, being a president means that I am always on the job and there is something that i must attend to. It was a pleasure meeting with all of you, but I hope you will excuse me. Thank you.
I still say that until the secure communication was set up and confirmed, leaving the room would do no good, and in fact may have been a secret service issue - I'm sure they would prefer he move from one secured area to another, rather than milling about in a hallway while they arranged for the secure communication in another classroom.
i personally think this is such a minute non-issue compared to the fact that the Sauds have Bush in their back pocket.
september2004
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Sassyz75 did you see it yet? i am hoping to go at some point this weekend...
cocoa
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Re: I saw fahrenheit 9/11 last night
Posted by Karen H
SECURE communication was being set up - Wow - that took all of 7 minutes - pretty darn quick in my book.
oh absolutely, but still, seeing now as the public what the government knew for years was inevitable, i would think one would make the presumption that it was something more than just a small lost commuter plane...i mean, it was the WTC...you don't just CRASH into the wtc. if you were lost in NYC, as a pilot, that's what you'd try to avoid. i don't know, hindsight is always 20/20, but i'd still rather have someone to jump to conclusions and presume 'oh ****, we may have trouble here, what can i do?' than sit and read a bedtime storyand wait. JMO, and maybe in 50 years, we'll be saying how fantastic Bush was and what a special time the 2000's were, but right now, i'm thinking not. i wish i had the answers.
