If you knew your unborn child would be disabled...

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Posted by Monkeybride

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Posted by usuk2004

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Posted by Bunnymonkey

Disabled persons are made out to be even more disabled by all of the pity we put on them. Most disabled persons are very happy - we project onto them this whole 'oh, his life must be so hard!' thing, and truthfully - his life isn't hard...but his parents might be.

For someone to say that they would abort for the sake of the child is selfish - they are aborting to save their own life from being a difficult one.

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I absolutely disagree on this one. I have a cousin who was born with Spina bifida. His life has been HARD and PAINFUL. He has had two legs amputated. He has endured all sorts of surgeries, treatments and procedures. I'm not saying I haven't seen him smile or heard him laugh, but he has suffered immeasurably and he has been depressed about his disability. If I could prevent a child suffering like that, I absolutely would!

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This is why spina bifida was something we would definitley abort over.
I'm sorry that is more than a handicap, that is a cruel and painful existence and it would be for the love of my child that I would abort to save them pain and suffering for many years of their life.

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How do you know there would be a painful and cruel existence?? There are literally hundreds of degrees of spina bifida and no one knows exactly how awful it will be...there are many many children and adults living with spina bifida who are happy and thriving. Check out this link if you have doubts...this is NOT to change minds, i am the last person to push my beliefs on people because I do not like that being done to me. I say this rather to show another side of something that many might consider a horrible disease or illness without really knowing everything there is. Take a look at some of the beautiful children on here who live everyday with it. There lives certainly don't seem awful or cruel.

http://www.waisman.wisc.edu/~rowley/sb-kids/sb_photo.htm

I have been thinking about this question a lot since it was posted. It is such a difficult question, and I think it's almost impossible to truly know what you would do unless g-d forbid, you were in that situation.

My gut instinct however, is a great deal of discomfort with the idea of aborting my child if I knew he or she would be born with a disability. There are so many people with disabilities who lead happy, fulfilling lives. There are also many who have a terrible quality of life. However, with the wide range of severity within disabilities such as down's syndrome, CP, and spina bifida, for example, I do not feel that I could determine that my child's life quality will be so poor that it's not worth having him or her.

If I didn't think I was capable of caring for a child with a disability, I would sooner give him or her up for adoption than not have him.

I work with children with disabilities at my externship and it breaks my heart to think that their parents may have decided not to have them. Many of them are so successful and happy. More of these children's hardships come from their low SES and poor living conditions than from their physical and mental disabilities.

I feel that my opinion is strongly tied to my feelings toward abortion to begin with. I am pro-choice, but could never have one myself. Everyone has very unique factors going into her decisions, so what's right for one may not be right for someone else.

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Posted by Johnny&Maur

[http://www.waisman.wisc.edu/~rowley/sb-kids/sb_photo.htm

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That site is very inspiring.

I am going to write my one last comment and be done...because I know i'm in a minority here (so it always seems) and its not worth it to me to argue my points.

But i will say that it saddens me to see that today it seems easier to just abort for whatever reason rather than coping and getting through tough challenges...if someone isn't 'ready', then abort. If they baby shows signs of a disability, abort. If timing is bad, abort...and yes this is common. Why is abortion regarded the way it is? Why is it that it seems as routine as going to the doctor for a checkup? With all it takes to create life...how many processes are involved, the amazingness of it all....how can people be so quick to want to end it? I guess that is where the mentality of fetus versus human comes in, but for someone who believe a life is a life no matter what, it is such a hard concept to grasp.

I don't wish anyone to ever be in the position where they find out their baby is unhealthy in any way. I think that must be heartbreaking...and very difficult. I just really take this matter to heart. Its one thing I am passionate about, and i guess its difficult to read certain things. I try to imagine ever ending a life growing inside of me and the very thought makes me shudder...at least i know i'm not completely alone!! :)

This topic hits close to home.

My mother had a baby the year before I was born. He was born premature with Down Syndrome and did not live past a few weeks old. My parents already had three healthy children so she never imagined that this could happen to her. She didn't think of genetic testing as it was not common.

She was faced with a very difficult decision. How would she care for this child. She knew that if she cared for him at home, her three healthy children and her marriage could and would probably suffer greatly. She knew that the best option would be to place him in therapeutic foster care with a couple who could tend to his needs better than she could. I think this was the hardest decision she had to make.

When my brother died, it left my mother very depressed and she longed for another healthy child. I think it was her way of proving herself capable. I'm just guessing. She was not able to come to terms with losing a child even 36 years later - his 36th birthday would have been next month. He never had a bris, or a Hebrew name - he was THAT sick when he died. He never had a stone with his name at the grave and only now, with my father's death so imminent, will she consider one for him as his Daddy will be with him soon.

So she got pregnant once again. Mom knew she could have an amniocentesis and would have for sure, aborted the pregnancy if there had been signs of any chromosomal disorder. Mom had me at 38 years old.

The amniocentesis back then was done further along in pregnancies and I would imagine would have made it much more difficult for a woman to choose to terminate once she felt more of a presence of a human being in her body. There were risks but fortunately, I was born at a healthy 9 pounds and 8 ounces.

While an amniocentesis can tell you if a child has a chromosomal disorder based on # of chromosomes or damaged chromosomes, it cannot tell you the severity of the disorder. It is a hard call to make as there are many people with these disorders who can live very productive lives. But on the flip side, it isnt just developmental capacities that are affected. These people have many physical problems as well.

I am a teacher in a school/day treatment center working with kids who have extreme special needs. I dont think I could knowingly have a child with a disability and be able to go to work everyday. It is a very exhausting existence to the child and to the parent as well as the caregiver. Too much knowledge can be a curse. Trust me. It makes me very fearful to have my own children when I live with it every day. I plan to have every prenatal test and pre pregnancy test known to man.

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Posted by StepherG

I agree with the other women that say 'you can't really know what you would do unless you were faced with it.' I am currently PG...took all the tests to make sure my baby is OK. And Thank God he/she is doing great. My husband and I decided that we would take each test and each result as it came. And yes, we would consider aborting if there was a major problem. I think others shouldn't judge unless you yourself have cared for a child that is severely disabled, MR, or with Downs...

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Some people do know though what they would do...in some womens minds, there is no doubt that an abortion isn't even an option. And everyone is entitled to their opinion, I was just giving mine. And i have helped care for a child with downs so I have experienced it first hand.

I tend to agree, you never know what you will do until you are in that position.

Johnny&Maur, aside from the quality of life issues, like how much happniess and pain the disabled children have, I think a REALLY big problem is: who will take care of him/her when the parents die? My mom works with 'high function' disabled adults (mostly mentally retarded). They can do basic stuff, feed themselves, dress on their own, shower, etc. They aren't in pain. But they are not able to live on their own- jobs, bills, transportation are beyond their abilities to deal with, so they are in a private group home. That kind of care costs a LOT of money, and will probably get more expensive as they age and are less functional. I am not saying that their lives are not worth living, or that they are not worth the money it costs to care for them. But what becomes of them if the money runs out? Or, if they were living at home with their parents, what happens to them when the parents pass away? They might literally get tossed out into the street, or put in some kind of government institution, and if they weren't miserable before, they surely will be. I can't imagine my child in either position.

I am not trying to change your mind- I haven't even made up my own mind. But there are more than the quality of life issues to be considered.

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Posted by Jan05Bride

I have a cousin who is metally challanged & physically disabled and I can tell you that while she is a lot of work - tons of work - I couldn't imagine a life without her. I don't think I could abort - whatever disabilities my cousin has, she's still one of the most special people in my life.

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Same for me with my brother, as much as he has some hardship, he is such a great person and so important to our family and to who we are.

I am pretty sure i would abort the baby if it was determined to have a severe handicap or downs....and trust me just a few short months ago i was on the opposite side. What changed my mind?

I went to dinner with a friend of mine whose son they just discovered has severe autism and the topic had come up if she would of known before what would she of done. I said first i would of had the baby because its our baby and i could handle it. She stated to me this 'you cannot really say that until you see how much time and effort it goes into raising a special needs child who you know will probably never be able to make relationships in his life and will need to go into a group home by the time they are 20. They have no real quality of life and to me (this is her speaking), i don't think it is very fair to them.

Really put into perspective for me and DH to think about it that way and we made the decision now that we would abort.

Its every couples personal decision really.

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Posted by brooklynbridezilla

I tend to agree, you never know what you will do until you are in that position.

Johnny&Maur, aside from the quality of life issues, like how much happniess and pain the disabled children have, I think a REALLY big problem is: who will take care of him/her when the parents die? My mom works with 'high function' disabled adults (mostly mentally retarded). They can do basic stuff, feed themselves, dress on their own, shower, etc. They aren't in pain. But they are not able to live on their own- jobs, bills, transportation are beyond their abilities to deal with, so they are in a private group home. That kind of care costs a LOT of money, and will probably get more expensive as they age and are less functional. I am not saying that their lives are not worth living, or that they are not worth the money it costs to care for them. But what becomes of them if the money runs out? Or, if they were living at home with their parents, what happens to them when the parents pass away? They might literally get tossed out into the street, or put in some kind of government institution, and if they weren't miserable before, they surely will be. I can't imagine my child in either position.

I am not trying to change your mind- I haven't even made up my own mind. But there are more than the quality of life issues to be considered.

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I do understand what you are saying and thank you for respecting my opinions, i do appreciate that :) sometimes it is hard to feel like you are one of few pro life people left, because sometimes i have had comments like 'oh you don't believe in choice??' and its hard to defend my position. Its important that people just understand that pro life does not mean we are stuck in the dark ages and think that women should be told how to live. Its just that I do believe life begins at conception, thats all...simple as that. And taking it away in my eyes is indeed murder.

What you were saying about when the money runs out....of course that is a valid point. What happens to these people? If they aren't fortunate enough to come from extended families that can care for them, it becomes sad and devestating. But my argument is that at least they were given life...a chance to be on this earth..to contribute and make a difference in any way possible. All of us effect someone else and its our job to help those that cannot help themselves. When people suddenly become homeless due to bankruptcy/alcoholism/drugs/sudden severe disability these issues arise. That is why there are places for people to get help...non profits, homeless shelters, homes for abused women/children etc....Life is always going to be full of problems, full of sadness and disaster. You said yourself 'I'm not saying their lives aren't worth living'...BUT....that is just what you are saying if you agree that abortion is a just end for an unborn disabled person because of the problems they will create for society and themselves.

Sorry, i am writing way more than i ever intended!! Nothing like feeling passionate about an issue. And i'm not trying to change anyones minds either, but its interesting to see so many varying viewpoints. We all help each other learn in ways..

I have to say for me it would depend on the degree of the disability, I would never want my child to suffer. (to be in physical pain)
With that said - I had a scare in my first pregnancy that my son was going to have Downs Syndrome - I have (had, she passed away last month) an Aunt with Downs, so having known someone and love someone with it there was no way I was going further with testing, I went on with the rest of my pregnancy and my son was healthy.
I have to believe in Gods will, I don't think he gives people more than they can handle, and if he gives me a special needs child, so be it.

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Its just that I do believe life begins at conception, thats all...simple as that. And taking it away in my eyes is indeed murder.

But my argument is that at least they were given life...a chance to be on this earth..to contribute and make a difference in any way possible. All of us effect someone else and its our job to help those that cannot help themselves. When people suddenly become homeless due to bankruptcy/alcoholism/drugs/sudden severe disability these issues arise. That is why there are places for people to get help...non profits, homeless shelters, homes for abused women/children etc....Life is always going to be full of problems, full of sadness and disaster. You said yourself 'I'm not saying their lives aren't worth living'...BUT....that is just what you are saying if you agree that abortion is a just end for an unborn disabled person because of the problems they will create for society and themselves.

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I took some of the text out for space- not disregarding your words.

I understand that you believe abortion is murder. I am just not sure it is worse than what awaits them when there is no one to care for them. True, there are many places to get help when it is needed- shelters, etc. But in that case, the people in need are aware they have a problem and actively seek help. A severely disabled person could not do the same.

Most of those services are meant to be temporary. Efforts are made to get abused women and children out of shelters and into homes, families and jobs. Drug addicts can be rehabilitated, and the out of work can be helped to find new jobs. Those things won't work for a severely disabled person.

We are also very lucky that we have those services available. Third world countries certainly don't have homeless shelters, drug and alcohol rehabilitation and battered women havens. I have seen some absolutely horrifying things happen to the disabled (not in this country) and this definitely colors my view.

IMO, not all women who chose to terminate the pregnancy of a severely disabled child are not doing so to escape the hardship that come with the disabilities, but to spare him/her the future that awaits them when the parents are gone.

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Posted by brooklynbridezilla

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Its just that I do believe life begins at conception, thats all...simple as that. And taking it away in my eyes is indeed murder.

But my argument is that at least they were given life...a chance to be on this earth..to contribute and make a difference in any way possible. All of us effect someone else and its our job to help those that cannot help themselves. When people suddenly become homeless due to bankruptcy/alcoholism/drugs/sudden severe disability these issues arise. That is why there are places for people to get help...non profits, homeless shelters, homes for abused women/children etc....Life is always going to be full of problems, full of sadness and disaster. You said yourself 'I'm not saying their lives aren't worth living'...BUT....that is just what you are saying if you agree that abortion is a just end for an unborn disabled person because of the problems they will create for society and themselves.

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I took some of the text out for space- not disregarding your words.

I understand that you believe abortion is murder. I am just not sure it is worse than what awaits them when there is no one to care for them. True, there are many places to get help when it is needed- shelters, etc. But in that case, the people in need are aware they have a problem and actively seek help. A severely disabled person could not do the same.

Most of those services are meant to be temporary. Efforts are made to get abused women and children out of shelters and into homes, families and jobs. Drug addicts can be rehabilitated, and the out of work can be helped to find new jobs. Those things won't work for a severely disabled person.

We are also very lucky that we have those services available. Third world countries certainly don't have homeless shelters, drug and alcohol rehabilitation and battered women havens. I have seen some absolutely horrifying things happen to the disabled (not in this country) and this definitely colors my view.

IMO, not all women who chose to terminate the pregnancy of a severely disabled child are not doing so to escape the hardship that come with the disabilities, but to spare him/her the future that awaits them when the parents are gone.

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Do you really and completely believe that many women abort a disabled child because they are worrying about who will take care of him or her when they pass? I am not asking this hypothetically, I really just wonder if there is any substance to that. I do 100% believe that in most cases (not all) it is because the parents do not want the burden. I know that others agree with me in this. I have heard and seen it first hand from discussions with friends.

So much of what you said is very heartfelt and true...I do realize that not all countries are as fortunate as we are to have this help available and aid. But....keep in mind...in third world countries unfortunately suffering is immense to all...disabled/fully abled. People continue to reproduce in horrible living conditions where disease runs rampant. Sometimes abortions are forced..sometimes women die during labor. Thereby offsetting a million and one more problems that must be dealt with. I do believe in the need for contraception and education. It is the first thing that needs to be done...but that is a whole other debate!!

I guess in the end, my feelings are just that I personally, can't understand anybody willingly ending a life. Thats all. My mother could have very easily aborted me...she was 17, pregnant and absolutely terrified...she was to start law school but had me instead. She has always taught me the importance of life and how god has a plan for everyone. Abortion was never ever a question for her although maybe to others it would have been the only option. I know this will never be a problem that will end..it will always exist like all social problems of the world. I have tremendous admiration for people who go through with pregnancies that aren't planned or aren't problem free...its probably one of the scariest things but in the end can be a blessing in disguise. I truly believe that!

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Posted by Johnny&Maur

Do you really and completely believe that many women abort a disabled child because they are worrying about who will take care of him or her when they pass? I am not asking this hypothetically, I really just wonder if there is any substance to that. I do 100% believe that in most cases (not all) it is because the parents do not want the burden. I know that others agree with me in this. I have heard and seen it first hand from discussions with friends.

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This is a really strong statement...and really, really unfair!! I don't want to start and argument, but everyone on this thread has been pretty civilized and has respected your opinions. For you to question the motives of those who disagree with your point of view is really uncalled for.

I for one have said that at this point--and DH and I have discussed this at length--I would choose to abort. I have said that my opinion may change should I actually be faced with the decision. I am not an advocate of abortion as birth control. But for you to suggest that I, and all of those who have shared a similar opinion, should have anything but the best interests of my/their child at heart is really disappointing and makes me really angry.

Perhaps it's been worded incorrectly, but I think you should take more care in what you post here. It's a sensitive and difficult issue for all involved. It would be a heartwrenching decision to make--no matter what one chooses to do. Though you may disagree, many of us here do not think abortion is the easy way out. In fact, some of us think it's the harder decision of the two.

Do you really and completely believe that many women abort a disabled child because they are worrying about who will take care of him or her when they pass? I am not asking this hypothetically, I really just wonder if there is any substance to that. I do 100% believe that in most cases (not all) it is because the parents do not want the burden. I know that others agree with me in this. I have heard and seen it first hand from discussions with friends.


I really do believe that many parents who chose to abort are not trying to escape the hard work it will take to raise the baby. I'm sure I am not the only one who has thought about what happens tho the kid when the parents are gone. Life goes beyond the time parent and child spend together, and I think it is short sighted not to consider that time. Even if I had raised a severely disabled child to the very best of my ability, as I aged I would wonder about his/her future.

I don't think that everyone thinks it is an easy way out. Not at all...I even stated 'not all' cases because I do know that it is a tough choice for many women. I however really do feel that in MANY cases that no..it is not thought about that far ahead. I sincerely believe that from what i have read, heard and seen first hand.

I was stating my opinions and asking a question. I have always been respectful of people and many times on discussions like this I have not been regarded with respect....I've seen it done to others too who may have varying viewpoints and its very disheartening. I have had FM's from several girls saying that they felt exactly the same way as I do but are afraid to say things on these boards because if you are not in the majority you are torn apart. Do you know how many times on certain boards people have been nasty when I've been very polite? I am not a belligerent person and I'm sorry you misconstrued what i said.

I have NEVER accused you are any girl on here personally about your motives. What i asked about is motives of most women having abortions today..THAT is what i question and I believe i have a right to. I really am sorry for making you think otherwise...