Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Original post by Xelindrya
not being sarcastic.. not meant to be cruel.. not to take away from those sufering..
Still Im sure SOMEONE will misinterpret this.
ok. here goes.
If you saw what we all saw on tv for more than a week approaching your own city (the hurricane katrina) If the local authority told you to leave and even told you it was a catagory 5, would you leave?
I ask because almost ALL the interviews I saw here folks who decided to 'ride it out' not so much the poor or couldnt travel. Heck Fat Domino thought to stay and with a legend like that many assumed he would never put himself in danger or his family, folks assumed it was ok to stay. The pictures of the superdome show they could have held more. Even if they couldnt fit in the dome the red cross would have relocated them.
Folks are still in their attics and others knew not to go into attics.
I dunno but maybe its just me, but Id have left.
ALSO does no one know that New Orleans is in a bowl that is below sea level and impossible to reach if flooded and is basically sitting on soaked land (aka Marsh lands and Byous) to begin with which means there was a pretty darn POSITIVE chance of flooding.
I have to ask.
My office mates (long islanders) said 'Its a long walk to the superdome' or 'Well, they don't have cars'.
I find it all very hard to swallow when i see the folks interviewed all seem like they should have and could have left or should have and if they were aware of how severe this would be (which again I reference the WEEK of news coverage) but decided to stay.
My question..
Would you leave NY/Long Island?
I sure as Heck would be in Jersey as soon as it was a few hundred miles out at the LATEST. Most likely Id take a few days off JUST in case, you life just is NOT worth guess you might make it.
Ok, Done venting Remember I still think NO ONE should suffer for any reason and I feel pretty horrid folks are dead, dying and suffering by the thousands (black and white and asian and man and woman and child all alike).
probably will need Ron to delete this soon
Blu-ize
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by Blu-ize
Nobody really thought it was going to be that bad. I would have left at the mandatory evac.
There were people who were infirmed and couldn't leave. I don't think we should be saying 'I told you so'. We just need to help without judging.
I also thought that there was not enough emphasis and notice for everyone to leave.
Good question.
MCDO15
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
people are dumb... same the couldn't leave, understandable but arrangesments should of been made prior...
this is similar to a fire alarm...if you hear an fire bells, do you stay in the building?
this is similar if you hear gun fire, are you not gonna duck for cover and hide.
some people just dont get hints...
salsbride06
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
my opinion is they all should have left. whether you were poor or not or dont have a car or just leave...they had 4 days warning. they all had a manditory evacuation by the second warning day. even if you walked ...you could have got somewhere...ya know what i mean. if that was me i would have packed a bag of clothes, my most important papers and drive as far away as possible. (im in florida so i would drive back to ny to my family). i already told fh that if that ever happend i would leave the first day that we were warned about it. especailly a category 5 hurricane. and i would never come back. along with all the people that are saying we havent moved fast enough and that florida got help quicker...the also have to realize that they are all under 15 +++ feet of water. florida wasnt. we still had access to streets. dont get me wrong i do fell extremely bad for them. its a hugy crisis and tragedy.
takeoutcook
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
A year before the hurricane they polled the city asking them if they would leave due to threat of a hurricane and 1/3 of the residents said 'no.'
Some stayed because they didnt believe the hurricane would hit them - they've had these warnings before and the storms changed direction.
Some stayed because 30% of New Orleans lives at the poverty level and couldnt afford to leave - didnt have a car, had no where to go, etc.
some were forced to stay because when it was revealed to be a category 5 hurricane, so many tried to leave that it became impossible to get out in time.
Some probably thought they'd be safer in the superdome - wrong idea that turned out to be.
It's just so devastating.
After seeing the devastation I'd certainly try and get out - easier said than done getting out of NYC or Long Island though.
August2004
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
DH and I had this very conversation last night. We both agreed that if we had to bike our way off long island we would. People give mandatory evacuations for a reason. Though I am sure some Long Islanders would stay.
butterfly20
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
definately would leave....... we would be screwed with less than a catagory 5
..... I understand how some people might have not had the money to leave or get over to the superdome,but the others who didnt think it was serious and wanted to ride it out really plain stupid considering the government ordered evacuation........
akaMrsT
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
We discussed this as well and would leave given the warning. However, we have cars and access to bank accounts and credit cards so if need be we could drive out and stay at a hotel. Or better yet, fly out and stay with family in another state. Many people that stayed behind (in all the affected areas) did not have the luxury of cars, credit cards or money at all.
The people that decided to stay to tough it out (not hospital workers required to stay and not those who were living below the poverty level and could not afford to leave or had no where to go) I do not understand.
As for the working poor - New Orleans is one of the top 10 as far as having citizens living below the poverty leve. We don't see that come Mardi Gras time. I think the city of New Orleans should have provided some means of tranporting the people out of the city PRIOR to the storm hitting. Putting them up at the stadium was only a last resort and it was a silly idea anyway.
My friend's parents are still there since her mom (a pharmacist) could not evacuate. they had the means to leave and most of the family did leave for Georgia in the days before the storm - but they could not convince her grandma to leave her house. She is now presumed dead. :sad: :sad: But she is in her late 90's and did not want to leave her home so she may have died there
violet
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
At first, I thought how stupid could these people be that they stayed? But then I realized, how do you think poor people without a car could get around? Especially if they had no family or friends whatsoever they could travel to. Or what about elderly people? I myself didn't think the hurricane would be this bad. You can't say until you've been in the situation.
Question: Did the government have buses driven in to get people who had no transportation out before the hurricane hit? I don't think they did, and if that's the case, maybe the people would have taken it more seriously if the government did.
salsbride06
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by takeoutcook
A year before the hurricane they polled the city asking them if they would leave due to threat of a hurricane and 1/3 of the residents said 'no.'
Some stayed because they didnt believe the hurricane would hit them - they've had these warnings before and the storms changed direction.
Some stayed because 30% of New Orleans lives at the poverty level and couldnt afford to leave - didnt have a car, had no where to go, etc.
some were forced to stay because when it was revealed to be a category 5 hurricane, so many tried to leave that it became impossible to get out in time.
Some probably thought they'd be safer in the superdome - wrong idea that turned out to be.
It's just so devastating.
After seeing the devastation I'd certainly try and get out - easier said than done getting out of NYC or Long Island though.
as soon as the storm swooped off south florida they said that the storm was going to hit new orleans...they had plenty of time to evacuate...i dont think that the excuse of there wasnt any warning till the storm changed directions is acceptable. they said it from the beginning. and like i said before whether you had no where to go, no car, no anything just leave...someone will help you!!!!! instead half these people lost their lives.
mbm750
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
we would definitely leave - we'd walk if we had to... and it's true, we have money for hotels/motels and family to help us, but even if we didn't, i'd leave and find a way - there are churches and shelters and kind people out there you can turn to - strangers or not. 9/11, the blackout - these experiences have taught me that if nothing else.
violet
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by mbm750
we would definitely leave - we'd walk if we had to... and it's true, we have money for hotels/motels and family to help us, but even if we didn't, i'd leave and find a way - there are churches and shelters and kind people out there you can turn to - strangers or not. 9/11, the blackout - these experiences have taught me that if nothing else.
Really? What would happen here if the bridges/tunnels had to close down due to a hurricane of that enormity?
Also, not all people are kind. People can turn pretty nasty or violent in a situation like that. I think that was pretty much seen in this case.
shamrock12472
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
I was thinking the same thing...why didn't these people just leave? Then I thought about what I would do, and I'm not sure I would leave. The residents had stayed and waited out hurricanes before without the type of incident that we see before us. Those that did ride out the storm were fine for the most part. It was the failure of the levies that caused the real danger. Unfortunately by that time, most residents had lost power and all forms of communication and had NO IDEA of the flooding. It's so easy to say what we would all do in hindsight but I really don't think it's fair to judge.
csorisi
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
First off if they told us that was going to happen to us I would leave, but like others said most of these people had no money or they thought they would survive because they survived the other hurricane in '69 which had 190 per hour winds according to the news. I have been watching the news almost every day for the past week & since I am not working right now I watch alot of it. The news people are literally on boats passing peopel in their homes with the water level almost at their front doors & those peopel decided to stay--this of course was at the beginning of the week right after the hurricane hit. I think it is a whole different situation down there many of the people stuck at the astrodome & the convention center and in thier homes still--their home & their possessions were all that they had so staying behind was comforting. Also many people had no means of getting out because they were old and didn't have help leaving thier homes. If it was known that this could happen to new orleans--the state, the city or the federal gov't should have moved buses in there before it hit & got these people out--forced them out if they had to, but sometimes peopel can only do so much and they probably couldnt' have forced these peopel out of their own homes. As one poster said earlier her friends 90 year old grandmother WOULDN'T leave not that she couldn't she just didn't want to and that is the case with many of the people.
The news broadcasts make it seem that all those that could financially pick up and leave the area did. Also i think those that are stuck in their attics and may be presummed dead are there because they thought it was safer than trying to go out into the water. Also i am sure people didn't beleive they would still be stuck in their attics almost a week after the fact.
The whole situation is just so sad
mbm750
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by violet
Posted by mbm750
we would definitely leave - we'd walk if we had to... and it's true, we have money for hotels/motels and family to help us, but even if we didn't, i'd leave and find a way - there are churches and shelters and kind people out there you can turn to - strangers or not. 9/11, the blackout - these experiences have taught me that if nothing else.
Really? What would happen here if the bridges/tunnels had to close down due to a hurricane of that enormity?
Also, not all people are kind. People can turn pretty nasty or violent in a situation like that. I think that was pretty much seen in this case.
yeah, i would - i've walked over the 59th street bridge to leave manhattan before (wrong direction for a hurricane though). and if there was an evacuation order, they'd have to let you evacuate before closing the bridges and tunnels - and even if they didn't, i wouldn't have waited until the last second to go. and i think you'd be surprised by people - i'm actually shocked by what's been happening in new orleans - i don't think that type of reaction to tragedy is the natural reaction. i received an email from one of my friends who's family lives in the area and stayed because she found shelter just north of the area - she said the first thing some people did was break into pharmacies and wal-marts for the drugs and the guns - that's criminal, that's not survival. and that's not what i'd do if i were desparate and hungry, and i've been desparate and hungry before - my family was very poor. what's happening down there is really terrible, but i bet there are some kindnesses out there too - they're just not newsworthy.
on a related note, fh was up last night reading on the internet and learned a few things i thought were interesting. did you guys know that the louisiana governor and the mayor of new orleans didn't want to order an evacuation. that in fact, it wasn't done until bush called them and told them they really should. did you also know that city buses and school buses were supposed to be used to evacuate people from the city and they weren't - this was in the new orleans disaster plan and they didn't follow their own plans. a lot more was supposed to and easily could've been done to get people out and wasn't. now, i'm not looking to blame anyone, just merely pointing out that there are ways to get people out that just weren't used, making this a huge tragedy. these people and their families are in my prayers.
violet
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
I've had to walk over the 59th street bridge twice too. I think our situation was different than their situation though. The majority of NY wasn't asked to evacuate and find somewhere else to go. We didn't have to fight over food and god knows what else. There were at least hospitals that people could go to.
This and 9/11 is equal the same in tragedy, but I'm just trying to point out that you can't compare the aftermath of the two because while everyone was affected emotionally in our case, the majority of us still had homes to go to, and still had necessities to offer other people who needed help. My cousin had to walk to Queens to my parents' house from the second building where she worked, and she was lucky someone gave her sneakers for the walk. But I don't feel like in this case with the hurricane, many people could afford t give other people anything to help them out because it's basically each person for himself/herself.
Summer05
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
I have been watching the news all day and they have been interviewing some the rescue workers. Some of them are saying that many of the people whom they are now rescuing in New Orleans were able to evacuate (had the resources and some had vehicles) but they chose not to because they did not think that it was going to be as bad as it was and some still do not want to leave.
csorisi
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by Summer05
I have been watching the news all day and they have been interviewing some the rescue workers. Some of them are saying that many of the people whom they are now rescuing in New Orleans were able to evacuate (had the resources and some had vehicles) but they chose not to because they did not think that it was going to be as bad as it was and some still do not want to leave.
They are also so many people that are saying they don't want to leave b/c they think the water is going to disapper. They literally have to tell people that hte water is going anywhere for 2 months to get them in the boat & some still won't leave--it is even peopel with little children. it is so sad
2003OCT10
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by violet
At first, I thought how stupid could these people be that they stayed? But then I realized, how do you think poor people without a car could get around? Especially if they had no family or friends whatsoever they could travel to. Or what about elderly people? I myself didn't think the hurricane would be this bad. You can't say until you've been in the situation.
Question: Did the government have buses driven in to get people who had no transportation out before the hurricane hit? I don't think they did, and if that's the case, maybe the people would have taken it more seriously if the government did.
ANSWER: NO!!!! Thats what I'm so pissed at!!!! If you were the governor or even the MAYOR for pete's sake-- WOuldn't you DEMAND assistance BEFORE this tragedy struck????To AVOID a drop in not only the DEATHs, but the QUALITY of life for your people?!?!?!?!
When you know your city is at least 20 ft. BELOW sealevel, and a hurricane, category 5 especially, was coming the first thing that should hve been done was to evacuate those people by busses.. If not at the warning, or voluntary level, but DEFINATELY at the Mandatory level. Grrrrrr
mbm750
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by 2003OCT10
Posted by violet
At first, I thought how stupid could these people be that they stayed? But then I realized, how do you think poor people without a car could get around? Especially if they had no family or friends whatsoever they could travel to. Or what about elderly people? I myself didn't think the hurricane would be this bad. You can't say until you've been in the situation.
Question: Did the government have buses driven in to get people who had no transportation out before the hurricane hit? I don't think they did, and if that's the case, maybe the people would have taken it more seriously if the government did.
ANSWER: NO!!!! Thats what I'm so pissed at!!!! If you were the governor or even the MAYOR for pete's sake-- WOuldn't you DEMAND assistance BEFORE this tragedy struck????To AVOID a drop in not only the DEATHs, but the QUALITY of life for your people?!?!?!?!
When you know your city is at least 20 ft. BELOW sealevel, and a hurricane, category 5 especially, was coming the first thing that should hve been done was to evacuate those people by busses.. If not at the warning, or voluntary level, but DEFINATELY at the Mandatory level. Grrrrrr
They had buses to use and didn't - now they're destroyed, sitting in water. If you want to see the pictures, check out www.instapundit.com and scroll down. You can see it for yourselves.
ETA: there's two more things I just learned tonight that I wanted to share. #1: federal assistance has to be requested before it can just show up - it's a jurisdictional thing - and it wasn't requested. Not only that, but when the feds wanted to take over the guard, they were rejected at first. #2: the FEMA guidelines state that federal assistance should not be expected for at least 72 hours - that local disaster efforts should be concentrated on getting through that window because it takes that long for the fed to get everything together. Again, not trying to blame anyone but a lot of people are pointing fingers at the federal government and I'm not sure it's entirely warranted.
mbm750
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Re: Ok.. I will be burned but I have to ask (katrina related) HIGHLY controversal
Posted by violet
I've had to walk over the 59th street bridge twice too. I think our situation was different than their situation though. The majority of NY wasn't asked to evacuate and find somewhere else to go. We didn't have to fight over food and god knows what else. There were at least hospitals that people could go to.
This and 9/11 is equal the same in tragedy, but I'm just trying to point out that you can't compare the aftermath of the two because while everyone was affected emotionally in our case, the majority of us still had homes to go to, and still had necessities to offer other people who needed help. My cousin had to walk to Queens to my parents' house from the second building where she worked, and she was lucky someone gave her sneakers for the walk. But I don't feel like in this case with the hurricane, many people could afford t give other people anything to help them out because it's basically each person for himself/herself.
I just wanted to clarify that I wasn't trying to compare the two, but was using 9/11 and the blackout of 2 years ago to illustrate how I personally would react if there was an evacuation order and also as examples of citizens coming together to deal with something. I think 9/11 and Katrina are both very different and are both very tragic in their own way - and like another poster said this isn't a competition, and if it were, it's not one anyone would want to win. Just to clear up any confusion I might've started - sorry girls.
