OK, no way in HELL! stop the STUPIDITY! : Katrina does NOT equal 9/11

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Posted by lilqtny

i agree with you 100000000000000000000000000000% I feel so horrirble for these victims however, they were told to get out. If they told us to leave LI b/c of a huge storm, I'd be out! I don't know why so many people thought they'd be okay, what were they thinking.

I wish there was more I could do to help them now and the re-building is going to be horrible for them, but I really think they should have left when told to do so.

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yeah...
of course.
I mean why didn't the families living below the poverty line making 19k a year take out their platinum visa cards and charge a hotel room that they can drive to in their gas guzzling SUVs???

Oh yeah, that's right- they are POOR....

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Posted by heidla
I don't see people fleeing everytime the terror level is raised here in NYC. Does that mean that if there is an attack we should all be left to die and blamed for our own deaths?

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*I* would leave! why do think im so happy not to work in the city. Yet still we have contingency plans

I dont sigh and rolls my eyes when the city pushes extra security and I dont whine if my commute is longer or im 'hasselled' by extra cops.

I never said these people aren't suffering, but this is apples vs oranges.

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Posted by DjPiLL

And while some people say an act of terrorism is 'so much different' than an act of god... it really isn't.

In fact... a lot of documents (like insurance)... actually put exemptions in for certain things like claims for items that were caused by 'Acts of God' and/or 'Acts of Terrorism'.

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Act of god is covered by insurance.. but flood is a separate insurance.

Terrorism is still gray for insurance


Yes they are different, one you do have an oppurtunity to make a choice, the other youre an innocent soul about to die without warning.

By they way.
EVERYONE knew the levies would break during a hurricane cat 3, Heck even I knew that back when I leave in San Antonio 5 years ago. If they hadn't fixed them from then to now, I am NOT surpised they broke.


JMHO

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Posted by Sassyz75

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Posted by lilqtny

i agree with you 100000000000000000000000000000% I feel so horrirble for these victims however, they were told to get out. If they told us to leave LI b/c of a huge storm, I'd be out! I don't know why so many people thought they'd be okay, what were they thinking.

I wish there was more I could do to help them now and the re-building is going to be horrible for them, but I really think they should have left when told to do so.

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yeah...
of course.
I mean why didn't the families living below the poverty line making 19k a year take out their platinum visa cards and charge a hotel room that they can drive to in their gas guzzling SUVs???

Oh yeah, that's right- they are POOR....

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Wait a minute now. I know that if it was me and it was a matter of life or death (Live if I leave, die if I stay) I would go whether or not I had a place to go!! So you can't afford a hotel? I would live in my 'gas guzzling SUV' for a day or two until shelters were set up and I could go to one. Stay and die because you can't afford a hotel room?????

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Posted by Xelindrya

Act of god is covered by insurance.. but flood is a separate insurance.

Terrorism is still gray for insurance


Yes they are different, one you do have an oppurtunity to make a choice, the other youre an innocent soul about to die without warning.

By they way.
EVERYONE knew the levies would break during a hurricane cat 3, Heck even I knew that back when I leave in San Antonio 5 years ago. If they hadn't fixed them from then to now, I am NOT surpised they broke.


JMHO

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Yeah but I think you are grossly mistaken when you say that 9/11 was WORSE than Katrina.

Put them on the same level... fine. Two terrible tradegys.

But to say 9/11 was worse... is just NYC bias IMO. (and hell I am a life-long New Yorker).

And while I am at it... let me play my favorite role of 'DjPiLL's Advocate'.


Just as much as you want to blame people of NO for not leaving.... why don't you blame the city and the tenants of the WTC for not being properly 'prepared' for this type of situation.

Does your job ever do fire drills? If they do... do you actually take them SERIOUSLY?

Hell... my company does a fire drill once every two years (if that)... and when we do one... maybe HALF the people actually leave the building!

It wasn't like the planes hit and they immediately went down. There was a timeframe. A short one. But a timeframe.

Maybe if the city ENFORCED these fire-drills and safety precautions a little more seriously... maybe less people would have died at the WTC because people would have PROPER instruction on how to exit the buildings quickly.


Just a thought.

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Posted by JimmysBride

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Posted by Sassyz75

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Posted by lilqtny

i agree with you 100000000000000000000000000000% I feel so horrirble for these victims however, they were told to get out. If they told us to leave LI b/c of a huge storm, I'd be out! I don't know why so many people thought they'd be okay, what were they thinking.

I wish there was more I could do to help them now and the re-building is going to be horrible for them, but I really think they should have left when told to do so.

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yeah...
of course.
I mean why didn't the families living below the poverty line making 19k a year take out their platinum visa cards and charge a hotel room that they can drive to in their gas guzzling SUVs???

Oh yeah, that's right- they are POOR....

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Wait a minute now. I know that if it was me and it was a matter of life or death (Live if I leave, die if I stay) I would go whether or not I had a place to go!! So you can't afford a hotel? I would live in my 'gas guzzling SUV' for a day or two until shelters were set up and I could go to one. Stay and die because you can't afford a hotel room?????

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its easy to say that in retrospect. i live in houston which is a very flood prone area, and we've had our share of hurricanes. before hurricane katrina hit, i asked several of my friends if they would evacuate houston if katrina was coming our way, and they all responded no.

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Posted by DjPiLL

And while I am at it... let me play my favorite role of 'DjPiLL's Advocate'.


Just as much as you want to blame people of NO for not leaving.... why don't you blame the city and the tenants of the WTC for not being properly 'prepared' for this type of situation.

Does your job ever do fire drills? If they do... do you actually take them SERIOUSLY?

Hell... my company does a fire drill once every two years (if that)... and when we do one... maybe HALF the people actually leave the building!

It wasn't like the planes hit and they immediately went down. There was a timeframe. A short one. But a timeframe.

Maybe if the city ENFORCED these fire-drills and safety precautions a little more seriously... maybe less people would have died at the WTC because people would have PROPER instruction on how to exit the buildings quickly.


Just a thought.

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As a matter of fact when the first building got hit, the people in the second building were instructed to keep working or leave, whichever they wanted. My cousin worked in the second building, and she decided to just leave, and just barely made it. Even if the second building hadn't gotten hit, I don't understand why they weren't immediately evacuated when a building next door to yours is on fire. But I would never say about the people who probably could have left sooner than they did that it was their fault!

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Posted by JimmysBride

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Posted by Sassyz75

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Posted by lilqtny

i agree with you 100000000000000000000000000000% I feel so horrirble for these victims however, they were told to get out. If they told us to leave LI b/c of a huge storm, I'd be out! I don't know why so many people thought they'd be okay, what were they thinking.

I wish there was more I could do to help them now and the re-building is going to be horrible for them, but I really think they should have left when told to do so.

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yeah...
of course.
I mean why didn't the families living below the poverty line making 19k a year take out their platinum visa cards and charge a hotel room that they can drive to in their gas guzzling SUVs???

Oh yeah, that's right- they are POOR....

---

Wait a minute now. I know that if it was me and it was a matter of life or death (Live if I leave, die if I stay) I would go whether or not I had a place to go!! So you can't afford a hotel? I would live in my 'gas guzzling SUV' for a day or two until shelters were set up and I could go to one. Stay and die because you can't afford a hotel room?????

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But these people have no SUV's, or any form of transportation for that matter. And with public transportation out of service starting the day before the hurricane - how were these thousands of poverty stricken people supposed to leave? With no transportation and no money - it was impossible. Don't you think if they could have left, they would have? Their 'choice' to stay was based on their lack of means to leave.

Does it matter who suffered more. Both these things affected our communities and our country. Let's just pray for ALL The victims and not make this a competition.

I am with you- you can't compare the 2 at all IMO

they are both horrible for so many reason- but they are not the same thing

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Posted by JimmysBride
Wait a minute now. I know that if it was me and it was a matter of life or death (Live if I leave, die if I stay) I would go whether or not I had a place to go!! So you can't afford a hotel? I would live in my 'gas guzzling SUV' for a day or two until shelters were set up and I could go to one. Stay and die because you can't afford a hotel room?????

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I think we forget how very different some parts of the country are. Not everyone has a car...my understanding is that the only asset some people possesed was their home..or the items inside the apartment they rented. We forget that not everyone has a car, not everyone has a 401(k) they can borrow against...not everyone has a bank account or ATM to drain in an emergency. Let's not blame the victims for the tragedy. Many looked to their government officials for an answer - right or wrong - they believed that if the mayor was saying go to the Superdome then that was the best alternative. The other night I saw a man on tv who broke down crying when he retold a story of a coworker who kept telling his elderly mother - don't worry they are coming for you. She drowned on Friday. People believed the government was going to help them. They believed someone would rescue them. That's the tragedy. Comparing 9/11 to Katrina - why. Why compare - I agree with those who had said that. But let's not forget that a lose is a lose....in the end the hurt is still the same. One life is not worth more than another. So terrorist attack or act of God...the ending result is still the same..this nation lost people. JMO...think we all feel pretty bad about what happened and just need to voice it.

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Posted by Xelindrya

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Posted by heidla
I don't see people fleeing everytime the terror level is raised here in NYC. Does that mean that if there is an attack we should all be left to die and blamed for our own deaths?

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*I* would leave! why do think im so happy not to work in the city. Yet still we have contingency plans

I dont sigh and rolls my eyes when the city pushes extra security and I dont whine if my commute is longer or im 'hasselled' by extra cops.

I never said these people aren't suffering, but this is apples vs oranges.

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I have already stated that these 2 things can't be compared. My point was that SOME people seem to be blaming the victiams. I don't think that is fair.

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Posted by WeddingsRock

In 1995, the city of NO asked Congress for money to reenforce the levees. There plea was turned down. For 11 years, the city of NO knew that the levees needed to be upgraded after hurricane Andrew. Monies should have been allocated for these repairs.

My Dh's family is from NO and we have heard from them. They said that they beleive that the gov't did the best that they could with what only they could have imagined. They have lived in NO for over 50 years and have been through Camille, Betsy & Andrew and nothing can compare at all to what they just went through and that is b/c the levees broke. That is the main difference. That complicated issues beyond comprehension. There was 900,000 square miles of water and rescuers were working as fast of they could.

They do question the mayor and the govenor b/c there wasn't any 'real' plan for those who couldn't/didn't get out.

The reality is this, just as we were shocked on 9/11 people from all over came to our aid. Now, it is our turn, to give back!

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Monies *were* allocated to the repairs after the 95 flood. My friend and I did quite a bit of research on the Southeast Louisiana Urban Flood Control project (or SELA) and the funding it should have received over the last decade, including looking at the White House proposed budgets for the last few years. The projects were underway, but funding had been drastically cut over the years since 9/11, because acts of Terrorism were a higher priority to the Gov't than acts of G-d. The Picayune Times (NO paper) had several articles regarding the cutting of funding to SELA, and how frustrated the local officials were as they fought FEMA. Apparently they tried to convince the Gov't that the Levees *were* a homeland security issue to no avail.

The governmental budgets don't say where the money that should've gone to SELA went, but one can guess.

Yes, 9/11 and Katrina are completely different catastrophies and should not be compared. But we should be sensitive that the people who lost everything have in fact *lost Everything* even though it can be replaced. Yes, they are still alive, but we need to give them the support they need to rebuild.

You know what? People who live in New Orleans will see the hurricane as worse because they lived through it. People from NY will see 9/11 as worse because we lived through it. Period.

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i think New Orleans wins ( or loses)- every New Yorker I knows sees the hurrican and it's after math as worse

but I still don't see how you can compare the 2- and we need to stop trying!

yeah...
of course.
I mean why didn't the families living below the poverty line making 19k a year take out their platinum visa cards and charge a hotel room that they can drive to in their gas guzzling SUVs???

Oh yeah, that's right- they are POOR....

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this actually made me laught- b/c so many people don't get this- these are REALLY poor people- not middle class people who are broke b/c they just bought a new house, car or something we can relate to - planning a wedding

some people with cars- we too poor to put gas in them! imagine- not being able to leave b/c you didn't have gas money- and of cousre no card to charge it on

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Posted by Beth1210



yeah...
of course.
I mean why didn't the families living below the poverty line making 19k a year take out their platinum visa cards and charge a hotel room that they can drive to in their gas guzzling SUVs???

Oh yeah, that's right- they are POOR....

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this actually made me laught- b/c so many people don't get this- these are REALLY poor people- not middle class people who are broke b/c they just bought a new house, car or something we can relate to - planning a wedding

some people with cars- we too poor to put gas in them! imagine- not being able to leave b/c you didn't have gas money- and of cousre no card to charge it on

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I know
That was sort of my point...
unless you are completely impoverished, you won't understand.
Also- a lot of victims of 9/11, families of 9/11, etc DO see the similarities and have made a 'Families of 9/11 Katrina relief effort'.... Some victims or relatives of victims from 9/11 have gone down there.. They say it's the way people are looking for the missing that reminds them of 9/11...

I know- you are so right- but most people I have been trying to explain that to do not get it

all they have in the whole world was the house- and no real way to replace it

I read that 25% of the city lives below the poverty line- which I still think is $15,000 for a family of 4- now that is POOR

Here are the poverty thresholds:

2005 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Persons in
Family Unit 48 Contiguous
States and D.C. Alaska Hawaii
1 $ 9,570 $11,950 $11,010
2 12,830 16,030 14,760
3 16,090 20,110 18,510
4 19,350 24,190 22,260
5 22,610 28,270 26,010
6 25,870 32,350 29,760
7 29,130 36,430 33,510
8 32,390 40,510 37,260
For each additional
person, add 3,260 4,080 3,750