Poll for Gore/Kerry voters

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Posted by myasmom

The media is honestly responsible for some of the mess we are living right now. They can spin a story out of BS and because its CNN people will beleive it. That goes for politics and other issues.

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i agree with you on this one...

i personally believe that the government and mass media are in bed together and both are to blame. the government has control via access. if reporters want access they need to tailor what is said and how it is presented. if one were to report anything out of what is deemed 'acceptable' then the access is cut off...

it’s a serious problem!

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Posted by marymoon

Inthink gay rights, rights for women, rights for racial minorities, it's all the same thing...

Do you know what's scary? The Civil Rights Act of 1964 does NOT protect homosexuals, so legally, you can't discriminate for jobs (Title VII) based on age, gender, ethnicity, religion or national origin, but you CAN discriminate based on sexual preference and they can't bring a federal case against you. I think that's terrible. I think it's all aprt of the same thing..

In the 60's many people thought balcks and whites should not be allowed to marry. MANY people were against the civil rights movement entirely, and cited morality as part of it, the same for ending slavery and granitng women the right to vote. Eventually, progress wins.

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Marymoon you are so right-I just wish people
would realize that. Denying the rights of any group has negative implications for any groups struggling to maintain the rights they fought so hard to win.

For any of you interested in finding out some more info about the election irregularities check out www. blackboxvoting.com

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Denying the rights of any group has negative implications for any groups struggling to maintain the rights they fought so hard to win

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Either way its wrong guys. Denying their rights or trying to force your ideals on other people. Thats why I am a firm believer of live and let live until you introduce your logic to MY family or force a country as a whole to accept cetain things. Personally, I think let the states decide, that way those who are not in agreement can move and vice versa.

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Posted by myasmom

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Denying the rights of any group has negative implications for any groups struggling to maintain the rights they fought so hard to win

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Either way its wrong guys. Denying their rights or trying to force your ideals on other people. Thats why I am a firm believer of live and let live until you introduce your logic to MY family or force a country as a whole to accept cetain things. Personally, I think let the states decide, that way those who are not in agreement can move and vice versa.

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Letting states decide really isn't the answer. Why should Americans be forced to uproot their lives and move just beacuse one state won't recognize the equality that another does. If we left it up to the states to decide on their own about slavery or segregation in schools what would this nation be like today?

The point I was trying to make is that there really isnt going to be an answer that everyone can agree on. SO you proved my point. There is not going to be a win win situation no matter who decides. But that is what would appease me..there leaves a choice at least..if you dont like what your state decides..you can move else where...seems more fair than making a decision for ALL states when clearly everyone does not share the same opinion on gay rights..and that goes for Kerry or Bush supporters.

This election is a clear example..one candidate won but some are bitter..If the other candidate had won..some would have been bitter too.

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Posted by myasmom

The point I was trying to make is that there really isnt going to be an answer that everyone can agree on. SO you proved my point. There is not going to be a win win situation no matter who decides. But that is what would appease me..there leaves a choice at least..if you dont like what your state decides..you can move else where...seems more fair than making a decision for ALL states when c;erar;y everyone does not share the same opinion on gay rights..and that goes for Kerry or Bush supporters.

This election is a clear example..one candidate won but some are bitter..If the other candidate had won..some would have been bitter too.

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Making a decision to protect the equality of a human being is the fair thing to do. Making states differ on civil liberties is not fair, what good can come from a nation divided?

guess what,,not to be mean..it will always be divided on certain issues. We are human beings and some have different opinions and values...doesnt make it ok just because the popular opinion may win..there are still others who wont agree.So as I said..its Ok becasue its the side you are on..but not everyone is on the same side of the fence..either way you slice it..someone's opinions are going to become insignificant.

An example of this..we are made up of immigrants who fled from their country because of certain isues that were widespread.. Here people have a choice. You can choose to accept homosexuality or not..For me that choice becomes endangered when you force people to conform. No one should have to conform. But if they violate a person because of their race or sexuality thats where the problem begins at least for me thats what I find unacceptable.

I have no problem with gays having health insurance or other benefits that go with a relationship..but I prefer not to look at the relationship as a marraige..because to me it is not the same thing that DH and I have. But thats my opinion and I wont go out there rallying up people to share my opinion..its just me and my family's opinion and we would not force our values on anyone else..thats the problem..people forcing their opinions on others because they feel that thier iopinion is the only one that is right.

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Posted by myasmom

I have no problem with gays having health insurance or other benefits that go with a relationship..but I prefer not to look at the relationship as a marraige..because to me it is not the same thing that DH and I have.

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I am just curious and I truly am not trying to start an argument or an attack...

but why do you feel that a gay relationship is different than the relationship that you and your DH have?

To me, a relationship entails love, support, comfort, respect, trust, honesty and companionship in 2 people. Does the gender of the 2 people really matter if all of the componenets are there?

If 2 couples love each other and one is gay and one is straight, and they have the same quality relationship, does the straight couple deserve the title of marriage more than the gay couple?

I am honestly not passing judgement on your opinions...I am just trying to understand your side of the issue.

Because it is what I beleive and obviously I am not alone in my opinion.

It is my culture and my upbringing and to me it is like having sex with an animal..people do it but does that mean that I should accept it no. Tolerate..yes because we are individuals.

One thing that I consider is..imagine if the ark had only two men or two women..would we be here ...No..

Does it mean that I cannot have healthy relationships with my gay friends No. But my value on human life is not defined on a person's sexuality its just something that I personally do not want in my face every day. And its my right just as its a gay person's right to want to seek recognition for their relationship.

Dont misunderstand my stance on this issue as I do not want a gay person to get their relationship recognized..my stance on the issue is..dont force me to compromise what I think just because a senator or public opinion decides its ok or not.

I dont live my life on what man values here on earth..my stay here is temporary ..I am more worried about after I die. Thats what people should consider..those who gay bash and those who support it.

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Denying the rights of any group has negative implications for any groups struggling to maintain the rights they fought so hard to win

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Either way its wrong guys. Denying their rights or trying to force your ideals on other people. Thats why I am a firm believer of live and let live until you introduce your logic to MY family or force a country as a whole to accept cetain things. Personally, I think let the states decide, that way those who are not in agreement can move and vice versa.

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You are right we should live and let live, and no there is often not going to be a win win situation. However expecting people to accept that all people in this country are entitled to certain rights in not tantamount to forcing your opinion on them, if we are supposed to be a democratic nation. That is a basic priniciple of our political system.

In this election some people voted to deny other people legal rights (NOT the right to get married in a church) so that they could have their religious beliefs codified in law for the rest of the nation. What's the flip side? I don't think not taking action against gays (which is what Kerry supported) would be forcing anything on those opposed to gay marriage. I think that is pretty good example of live and let live.

Again it is very dangerous to intimiate that the rights of citizens should be decided by individual states, because we are one nation, and fundamental economic and social protections under the law should not be up to the discretion of states. The civil war is prime example of what can happen when the rights of individuals are left up to the discretion of individual states. The arguments that you use now are the same ones that segregationists and racists used to deny Blacks citizenship and social and ecnomic rights in this country. We can't give rights to some and then abridge the rights of others when it suits our interests. Once we are willing to guarantee some people rights and then deny these same rights to others in different parts of the country, we are not a functioning republic.

Dont misunderstand my stance on this issue as I do not want a gay person to get their relationship recognized..my stance on the issue is..dont force me to compromise what I think just because a senator or public opinion decides its ok or not.

I dont live my life on what man values here on earth..my stay here is temporary ..I am more worried about after I die. Thats what people should consider..those who gay bash and those who support it.

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One of things about Jesus is that he always gives us a choice. So whatever a person decides to do it will be between them and the Lord. Not you and me and them and God. That's my reading of the Bible, and I am sure many will disagree.


Sorry just had a couple more things to say...


There are a lot of people who feel the way you do and should not have to compromise how they feel, nor should you. But if we really live and let live this would not be an issue. You have your opinion about one thing, someone else has theirs, but both of you are afforded the same protections under the law.
End of story.

When it is time for them to meet their maker, he will decide how to judge them based on how they lived their live on earth, not you or me or anyone else. I don't believe that if our society chooses not to deny homosexual LEGAL rights under the law that that is the equivalent of forcing people to support gay marriage. I think it is essentially promoting the idea of live and let live.

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The arguments that you use now are the same ones that segregationists and racists used to deny Blacks citizenship and social and ecnomic rights in this country.

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There is a difference between people..some live nad let live..others lynch and perform hate crimes. The problem is that people try to force their ideals on others and use rhetoric to convince others that it is right or wrong. My beliefs are what they are and no one has a right to tell me I have to accept gay marraige just becasue you or anyone equates it to slavery and a fight for rights..many of us view the two subjects differently..

Its funny how people use the two as the same argument..that f you dont support gay marraige you are somehow spitting on the right african americans have gained.. I wonder if you would be surprised to know that not all african americans support gay marraige or that all the people who supported kerry did not support it either. But we dont go out and kill and maim.. some of us just ask that it not be forced upon us and our families just becasue so many in society think its OK.

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One of things about Jesus is that he always gives us a choice. So whatever a person decides to do it will be between them and the Lord. Not you and me and them and God. That's my reading of the Bible, and I am sure many will disagree.

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a contradiction here..so why should all be forced to accept homosexual rights (my issue isnt about rights if you read my other posts)..shouldnt we leave punishment up to God for those who discriminate and kill homosexuals or kill others etc...isnt that kind of leaving things up to each person to live for themselves and do what they want and pay the consequences or reap the rewards later. See..every argument has two sides... and everything you or I say has a rebutal from either side...

This is an issue that will be neverending in my opinion..even if the courts make a decision... It wont stop the killing or discrimination..so really this issue will continue to spin and spin until the world comes to an end. Just because AA have rights it didnt put a stop to discrimination. This is bigger than any lawmaker. Its bigger than you and its bigger than me.

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Posted by myasmom

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One of things about Jesus is that he always gives us a choice. So whatever a person decides to do it will be between them and the Lord. Not you and me and them and God. That's my reading of the Bible, and I am sure many will disagree.

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a contradiction here..so why should all be forced to accept homosexual rights (my issue isn't about rights if you read my other posts)..shouldnt we leave punishment up to God for those who discriminate and kill homosexuals or kill others etc...isnt that kind of leaving things up to each person to live for themselves and do what they want and pay the consequences or reap the rewards later. See..every argument has two sides... and everything you or I say has a rebutal from either side...

This is an issue that will be neverending in my opinion..even if the courts make a decision... It wont stop the killing or discrimination..so really this issue will continue to spin and spin until the world comes to an end. Just because AA have rights it didnt put a stop to discrimination. This is bigger than any lawmaker. Its bigger than you and its bigger than me.

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Why in the world would you feel forced to accept homosexual rights? If a union between gay people is legal how is that affecting you? I seriously think you should leave the judging of whether or not people deserve the same rights as you up to God. Remember the church is manmade and it's opinions and values were made by people...same as laws. So who is to say which is right? From what I know about God and religion it usually isn't for segregating members of the population just because some people don't like it or don't want it forced on them.

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Posted by myasmom

something someone said to me hat got me thinking..in some religions men can have more than one wife..so does this mean that if your FH or Dh wanted to have more than one mate it is his right to do so? Now remember we say that we embrace all religious rights but somehow this trend has been met with resistance.

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It is not met with resistance by the people that practice it. Is it right for me? No, and thats why I don't practice it, but I won't say it is wrong for others to practice it if they choose to.

YOUR QUOTE:
a contradiction here..so why should all be forced to accept homosexual rights (my issue isnt about rights if you read my other posts)..

I am not sure I understand what you are saying above. What is being forced on anyone?

I expect that there will often be rebuttals to what you or I might say, but communication is potentially the key to understanding and acceptance and hopefully a first step to compromise.

Let me be clear, I make a distinction between sexual preferences and killing, so no I am not contradicting myself. But again we run into the the issue of law vs. religion. The law says no you cannot kill and the Bible says you cannot kill. so that is one instance where law and religion (for some) agree with each other. However, when it comes to sexual preference, at this point, these two obviously conflict with each other. One's life vs. the right to love whomever you want regardless of their gender are apples and oranges, but again that's my opinion.

You are right, issue will never come to an end so long as people have different opinions, but I understand a lot more now that I have spoken to other people who don't agree with me. And while that may not be a major step to finding a compromise, I think it is a beginning.

call it what you want Moehick..after all its just words right? And for the record I am talking for myself and no one else SOme people fel that it is forced upon them..its all a matter of how you choose to percieve it.
Its just like an argument..you can say something but a person may take it the wrong way..that doesnt change how that person feels does it.

And I am not trying to say who is right or wrong..read my posts..I am talking about what is right for me and my family..thats the difference. I am not trying to talk for the rest of America. I am talking to the people here on this board who asked me to explain my views. I give up that this is an issue that as I said before we should just agree to disagree.

I want to clarify a statement I made above. I don't think the law and religion always conflict, but they don't always have to agree.

But I keep coming back to this question of what is being forced on people who don't support gay partnerships.

Just becuase the state acknowledges partnership (some call it marriage, I don't think they are the same) among gays as legal a church does not have to. So, a person against gay marriage essentially has the right to maintain their belief in church and in society (without seeing it in law). So what is being forced upon them? I truly want to understand.

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You are right, issue will never come to an end so long as people have different opinions, but I understand a lot more now that I have spoken to other people who don't agree with me. And while that may not be a major step to finding a compromise, I think it is a beginning

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I thank you for this. I think that discussion without personal attacks are key to this. Both sides have people who act out in the wrong way. But people have personal emotions and it spills over and I truely enjoy the board as a place to embrace all..but on some posts I can tell nerves have been touched and I dont want to start it as a personal attack on anyone.