Do you guys think it is a huge issue to not give your children a religion when they are born and let them find it on their own?? (not have them baptised, christened or whatever)
oneday
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by RedHead
'I would also like to add that my December 25th was originally the holiday for the winter soltice and was not originally a Christian holiday. My chlid will celebrate Christmas because I do not view it to be a solely Christian holiday.'
Christmas IS a CHRISTIAN and its denominations holiday!!!
Just out of curiosity, where exactly does Santa and gift giving show up in Christian religous text? Do you give gifts and did you celebrate with Santa? I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ***, and I understand you have your beliefs, but to me, it sounds like you feel that only your way is right and I don't really think that is fair to say.
brooklynbridezilla
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by RedHead
'I would also like to add that my December 25th was originally the holiday for the winter soltice and was not originally a Christian holiday. My chlid will celebrate Christmas because I do not view it to be a solely Christian holiday.'
Christmas IS a CHRISTIAN and its denominations holiday!!!
I think Heidla might be mistaken that Dec 25 is the Winter Solstice holiday- everything I have seen so far says its usually the 21st or 22nd.
I am hestitant to keep discussing this b/c I don't know a whole lot about it. I know that WS and Christmas are two distinct holidays- no one is claiming they are the same thing, or that they are celebrated the same way. I don't see the WS trying to copy Christmas.
There is some debate going that Christmas was purposely put on the 25th- near the Winter Solstice, so that it would be easier to convert people to Christianity.
RedHead
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by oneday
Posted by RedHead
'I would also like to add that my December 25th was originally the holiday for the winter soltice and was not originally a Christian holiday. My chlid will celebrate Christmas because I do not view it to be a solely Christian holiday.'
Christmas IS a CHRISTIAN and its denominations holiday!!!
Just out of curiosity, where exactly does Santa and gift giving show up in Christian religous text? Do you give gifts and did you celebrate with Santa? I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ***, and I understand you have your beliefs, but to me, it sounds like you feel that only your way is right and I don't really think that is fair to say.
'I would also like to add that my December 25th was originally the holiday for the winter soltice and was not originally a Christian holiday. My chlid will celebrate Christmas because I do not view it to be a solely Christian holiday.'
Christmas IS a CHRISTIAN and its denominations holiday!!!
Just out of curiosity, where exactly does Santa and gift giving show up in Christian religous text? Do you give gifts and did you celebrate with Santa? I'm honestly not trying to be a smart ***, and I understand you have your beliefs, but to me, it sounds like you feel that only your way is right and I don't really think that is fair to say.
I do not think MY way is the only way....not by any means...
BUT i just do not understand WHY someone would say they DO NOT believe in a religion and yet celebrate is't holidays???
I do not UNDERSTAND that..
If someone doesn't believe in a religion...BY ALL MEANS..that is anyones right and i do not impose my views on that...BUT to go out of your way to say that YOU DO NOT believe in the religion and yet celebrate it's holidays....just doesn't seem right to ME...
marymoon
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Re: Religion Spin Off
I would just like to point out that christmas and yule (winter solstice) fall around the same time and have some of the same symbols and customs, and Easter and oestre (Spring Equinox) fall around the same time and ahve some of the same symbols and customs.
The reason being is that Jesus was NOT born on December 25th. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but the Christians were very clever and superimposed theirnholidays on the pagan ones in order to convert the pagans. The pagane religions and therefore holidays are much much older than Christmas and Easter. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it's just worth knowing the history
marymoon
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Also I have to say the tree, the gift giving and all of the stuff you're saying people shouldn;t do on xmas if they're not christian has exactly zero to do with jesus
The real reason for the season Many mainstream Christmas traditions stem from original Pagan practices. Though Christian origins and associations have been attributed to many of these traditions, they do in fact pre-date Christianity. Yule Log - A special log was chosen on the eve of Yule, for the holiday fire. A small piece from last year's log is used to light the fire. The lighting of the fire was a festive family event, to hurry the return of the sun. Charred pieces from the fire would be kept to protect the house through the coming year. The woods most often sought for the Yule log were birch, oak willow or holly. Today, the Yule log is sometimes represented as a log cake instead. Or a small log is decorated with candles. The burning of the Yule log is a well-known tradition, but it's not often done outside of the Pagan community anymore.
Kissing Under Mistletoe - The roots of this habit are unknown, but is likely tied with the fertility aspects of mistletoe and that it was viewed as a bringer of peace by the Druids.
Mistletoe was also a powerful healing herb. Mistletoe and kissing are also seen in one of the Norse myths: Frigga is the Norse Goddess of love, marriage and fertility. Her son, Balder was slain by Loki with an arrrow made from mistletoe. When Balder was restored to life, Frigga blessed the mistletoe and gave a kiss to anyone who passed under it. Some later versions of this tradition say to remove one berry with each kiss. When there are no more berries on the sprig of mistletoe, no more kisses.
Tree Decorating - There is some debate on the origin of this tradition. Druids (and some other ancient cultures) saw evergreen trees as symbols of everlasting life, because they seemed to live through the winter undaunted by the cold. So using evergreen branches as decorations symbolized the undying strength of the Sun. Decorating the trees may have come from the ancient Roman festival of Saturnalia (see below for more on Saturnlia).
Gift Giving - The Christians attribute the giving of gifts at Christmas to the three wise men who brough gold, frankincense and myrrh to the newborn Jesus. But this tradition was common well before the time of Jesus, during Saturnalia.
The Ancient Roman Festival of Saturnalia Saturnalia is one of the best known ancient celebrations of the Winter Solstice. The name comes from the Roman God Saturn, who ruled over agriculture. He was the main God honoured at this time, after the fall crops had been sown. Saturnalia lasted for several days (typically 7, but various officials changed the length of the festival on a few occassions). Saturnlia was the greatest festival of the Roman year, and was marked with great feasting, gift-giving, dancing, playing, and relaxing. Homes were decorated, work was suspended, and there was general merry-making done by all.
RedHead
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by marymoon
I would just like to point out that christmas and yule (winter solstice) fall around the same time and have some of the same symbols and customs, and Easter and oestre (Spring Equinox) fall around the same time and ahve some of the same symbols and customs.
The reason being is that Jesus was NOT born on December 25th. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but the Christians were very clever and superimposed theirnholidays on the pagan ones in order to convert the pagans. The pagane religions and therefore holidays are much much older than Christmas and Easter. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it's just worth knowing the history
\ mary...point being that Christmas is the CELEBRATION of the BIRTH of Jesus...
RedHead
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by marymoon
Gift Giving - The Christians attribute the giving of gifts at Christmas to the three wise men who brough gold, frankincense and myrrh to the newborn Jesus. But this tradition was common well before the time of Jesus, during Saturnalia.
The Ancient Roman Festival of Saturnalia Saturnalia is one of the best known ancient celebrations of the Winter Solstice. The name comes from the Roman God Saturn, who ruled over agriculture. He was the main God honoured at this time, after the fall crops had been sown. Saturnalia lasted for several days (typically 7, but various officials changed the length of the festival on a few occassions). Saturnlia was the greatest festival of the Roman year, and was marked with great feasting, gift-giving, dancing, playing, and relaxing. Homes were decorated, work was suspended, and there was general merry-making done by all.
HOW MANY PEOPLE CELEBRATE THIS?????
Thanks for the historyt lesson (truly, it was interesting) BUT...i do not believe anyone really celebrates the above....
marymoon
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Mnay people celebrate Yule.I'm just saying people are saying oh, you can't have the tree and the giftds if you're not christian, that's so worng, it's about jesus. All of that stuff far predates Jesus. That's all I mean to say. Christians don't own it. It may be used to celebrate jesus' birth but that's not how it originated, so I don't see why people who don't believe in jesus can't have a yule tree..what does the tree have to do with jesus anyway?
marymoon
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Approx. Dec 21 Winter Solstice, Saturnalia, Alban Arthan The holiday of Yule was celebrated long before Christians adopted the date. Many of the Christmas traditions we see today stem from old Pagan customs. As the solstice, it is the longest night of the year. From this day forward, light begins to return and we celebrate the rebirth of the Sun God. Traditions: lighting the Yule log, wreath making, gift giving Correspondences: pine, holly, myrrh, cinnamon,
Ostara Approx. March 21 Spring Equinox, Lady Day This is another holiday that has been overlaid with Christian meanings (Easter). Eggs and bunnies are typical symbols, representing new birth and new life. Plant the seeds of long-term goals. Traditions: Colouring eggs, decorating with flowers Correspondences: jasmine, daffodil, lotus, new spring flowers
It's also interesting to note that just about every one of what have become the 8 sabbats in wicca correspond to a christian/western holiday. Feb 2, Imbolc is St Brigids day and groundhog day, Christians adopted candlesmas, May 1, Beltane 'may day' became the 'may crowning' for the virgin mary...
marymoon
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Re: Religion Spin Off
FYI thugh, Wicca is a new religion, started in the 20th centurey, but it adopts the practices of ancient pagans. There are many many pagan sects that far predate it, but Wicca is the one that is most popular and growing the fastest
MrsERod
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Re: Religion Spin Off
mary...interesting stuff....did you study history in college?
RedHead
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by marymoon
Mnay people celebrate Yule.I'm just saying people are saying oh, you can't have the tree and the giftds if you're not christian, that's so worng, it's about jesus. All of that stuff far predates Jesus. That's all I mean to say. Christians don't own it. It may be used to celebrate jesus' birth but that's not how it originated, so I don't see why people who don't believe in jesus can't have a yule tree..what does the tree have to do with jesus anyway?
mary...great googling by the way...but sorry i am just NOT buying it...People USE christmas to get together, exchange gifts, yadda yadda....I am not saying there is anything wrong with it...
BUT the average person is doing just that...using the holiday to celebrate....they aren't knowing the Wican/pagan meaning for anything...
BUT to say that you do not believe in a religion in which said holiday and its symbolism associated with...is wrong.!
But again MY OPINION
i know a lot of people that do this ...
RedHead
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by MrsERod
mary...did you study history in college?
heidla
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by marymoon
I would just like to point out that christmas and yule (winter solstice) fall around the same time and have some of the same symbols and customs, and Easter and oestre (Spring Equinox) fall around the same time and ahve some of the same symbols and customs.
The reason being is that Jesus was NOT born on December 25th. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but the Christians were very clever and superimposed theirnholidays on the pagan ones in order to convert the pagans. The pagane religions and therefore holidays are much much older than Christmas and Easter. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it's just worth knowing the history
That is absolutely my point.
Many people don't know the origins of the Christmas holiday. Where in the Bible is Christmas mentioned? It's not. It was a holiday that was placed over the Pagen celebration of the Winter Solstice by the new religion Chrisitanity to drive Pagenism out.
MrsERod
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Re: Religion Spin Off
oh damn..guess I got my answer!!
RedHead
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by heidla
Posted by marymoon
I would just like to point out that christmas and yule (winter solstice) fall around the same time and have some of the same symbols and customs, and Easter and oestre (Spring Equinox) fall around the same time and ahve some of the same symbols and customs.
The reason being is that Jesus was NOT born on December 25th. Sorry to burst anyone's bubble here, but the Christians were very clever and superimposed theirnholidays on the pagan ones in order to convert the pagans. The pagane religions and therefore holidays are much much older than Christmas and Easter. It doesn't make anyone right or wrong, it's just worth knowing the history
That is absolutely my point.
Many people don't know the origins of the Christmas holiday. Where in the Bible is Christmas mentioned? It's not. It was a holiday that was placed over the Pagen celebration of the Winter Solstice by the new religion Chrisitanity to drive Pagenism out.
heidla...in all honesty...PEOPLE ARE USING the holiday! right or wrong that is for each to decide...
BUT the majority ARE doing just that!
marymoon
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Re: Religion Spin Off
As far as I can see, heidi's only mistake here is in calling it 'christmas', because you can have the same exact celebration with the same exact symbols and be celebrating Yule, and plenty of people do celebrate it.
I think the figures say that there are 100,000 Wiccans in the United States and that doens't include many many other pagan sects. Wicca is actually recognized by the US military. I'm not sure what that means, exactly..but it is what it is.
I could have a tree and presents and mistletoe, and call it xmas and somsone else cna do the same EXACT thing and call it Yule. Doens't make either of us wrong, or silly or anything else.
And I had to google it b/c all of my books on the subject are still in boxes at FH's apartment.
No, I didn't study history in college, I took some religious studies courses in college, but even since, I guess HS I've been an avid private studier of...umm comparative religion? It doesn't make me an expert, but it's something I'm passionate about and have some knowledge of.
sarahthegreat
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Re: Religion Spin Off
as far as raising my kids, fh and i are both catholic and plan on raising our kids catholic. christmas and all. if when they get older, they start to question their faith, they are free to explore other options. who am i to say what is right or wrong for someone else to believe?
MrsERod
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Re: Religion Spin Off
Posted by marymoon
but even since, I guess HS I've been an avid private studier of...umm comparative religion?
