Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Original post by Johnny&Maur

Nov 03, 2004 01:48 PM

I know..i'm not exactly make the boards less controversial...but I'm not asking this to start controversy, but rather just for my own knowledge...

Does anyone consider themselves to be pro-life? As someone who is pro-life with reservations (i think should be ok in cases of rape, incest, & endangerment to the mother) I just always feel in the minority. Which i know i am...I grew up in a big irish catholic family who ingrained in my head that life began at conception..and that every life is precious. I am trying to figure out things for myself, and really understand my views...

One thing i'd like to add is that i would never press my beliefs upon someone else-I know abortion is one of the hardest things a woman could ever decide to do. Just wanted to know if anyone felt similar to me in their own personal belief system?

babygirl Posted: Nov 03, 2004 04:58 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Sassyz75

Posted by babygirl

Posted by Jordan

Posted by TwoBugs

I'm not sure if the one I quoted is the correct one, either. There is also the Christian Wellness Association...

Either way...I think we get the point.

Bottom line - the abortion-cancer link is propaganda put out by the anti-choice. It's been refuted by REPUTABLE cancer research organizations, time and time again.

Such as ????????

The NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE
a government run research organziation..
A LOT more reputable than your CWA

yikes scary lady relax~!

Jordan Posted: Nov 03, 2004 04:59 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by babygirl

Posted by Jordan

Posted by babygirl

Such as ????????

'Such as?????????', what?

Which reputable organizations?

I've quoted them twice already.

Vicky1706 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:01 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by CubanBride

-Women under age 18 who had an induced abortion have an increased breast cancer risk of 150%.
-Women of age 30 and above who aborted a first pregnancy increase their breast cancer risk by 110%.
-Overall, women who have an induced abortion have an increased breast cancer risk of 50%.

I agree that in the cases of rape or incest, there is NO reason a woman shouldn't be allowed to have an abortion.

I will say the same thing to you pro-lifers that I said to the pro-choicers. Abortion is not just about the baby, but about the mother as well. You have to be able to look at both sides of the issue in order to make an educated, sound decision.

So you've stated your 'facts' that the ladies above have graciously proved are biased and you want to be able to look at both sides of the issue.

What happens to the pregnancies that aren't aborted (for fear the mother would get cancer of course)? What becomes of the children whose mothers are unfit? They end up as front page news stories like 'Garbage man finds newborn in dumpster' or they end up in the 'system' which provides little hope for a bright future.

I think we all agree that abortion is never an answer for promiscuity and a woman educated on proper birth control is best but I just don't think anyone should be able to pass a law governing a woman's body.

Sassyz75 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:01 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by babygirl

Posted by Sassyz75

Posted by babygirl

Posted by Jordan

Posted by TwoBugs

I'm not sure if the one I quoted is the correct one, either. There is also the Christian Wellness Association...

Either way...I think we get the point.

Bottom line - the abortion-cancer link is propaganda put out by the anti-choice. It's been refuted by REPUTABLE cancer research organizations, time and time again.

Such as ????????

The NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE
a government run research organziation..
A LOT more reputable than your CWA

yikes scary lady relax~!

No. I won't relax.. not when people like you are putting information out there that is biased and slanted- to make women FEEL bad about their choices.

I won't relax as long as their is a threat to my PERSONAL right to do what I want with MY body.

I think the 'pro life' fight is better served educating women and men on how NOT to get pregnant.

Jordan Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:05 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Vicky1706

I think we all agree that abortion is never an answer for promiscuity and a woman educated on proper birth control is best but I just don't think anyone should be able to pass a law governing a woman's body.

Very well said. Though I would add that both women AND men need to be educated on proper birth control.

babygirl Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:05 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Sassyz75

Posted by babygirl

Posted by Sassyz75

Posted by babygirl

Posted by Jordan

Posted by TwoBugs

I'm not sure if the one I quoted is the correct one, either. There is also the Christian Wellness Association...

Either way...I think we get the point.

Bottom line - the abortion-cancer link is propaganda put out by the anti-choice. It's been refuted by REPUTABLE cancer research organizations, time and time again.

Such as ????????

The NATIONAL CANCER INSTITUTE
a government run research organziation..
A LOT more reputable than your CWA

yikes scary lady relax~!

No. I won't relax.. not when people like you are putting information out there that is biased and slanted- to make women FEEL bad about their choices.

I won't relax as long as their is a threat to my PERSONAL right to do what I want with MY body.

I think the 'pro life' fight is better served educating women and men on how NOT to get pregnant.

WHAT About the Child ? OH wait he/she doesn't matter???? Who protects their rights ? No one because ???????? I am not putting any slanted info out there I am just saying there is more to the issue then the choice (action ) itself!

Vicky1706 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:05 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by dontwannasay

I wonder how many of you actually know someone who was raped and then became pregnant?

I'm a regular poster but posting under an alias for obvious reasons. I was sixteen when I was raped by my boyfriend and then had to come to terms with whether or not to abort my baby. I made the decision to abort the baby because it wasn't my choice to get pregnant and I never willingly chose to have sex with this individual. I was so emotionally shattered and fragmented, having that daily reminder in my life of how evil this person was would have destroyed me. Honestly my fear was the child would perpetuate his father's souless existence and I would hate it forever. Call me a hypocrite but I am pro-life. I never look on my decision to do what I did as being a hypocrite, just a human reaction to an unhuman act. I think of that child every year at the exact time it happend some 20 years ago. Therapy doesn't remove those scars. My sins will be judged by God someday...

eroxgirl Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:06 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Jordan

To answer the original question, no, I am ProChoice through and through. Regardless of whether it was an 'oops' or rape. Also the term 'partial birth abortion' is not a medical term - it is another catch phrase concocted by the AntiChoice. There is not a Dr in her/his right mind that would ever - EVER - perform an abortion on a woman at 8 months, 9 months just b/c she woke up that morning and felt like terminating her pregnancy. Abortions are performed that late in the game for 1 of two reasons...the mother is at risk or the baby is terribly deformed.

Thanks Jordan!!! I was going to post that but just as I was about to my boss had the nerve to give me WORK to do.

But no doctor worth his degree would perform an abortion on an 8 month pregnant woman just because she changed her mind.

Besides, the people who get that far and change their minds usually do give birth...they just throw their babies in the trash can when they're through.

Vicky1706 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:08 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Jordan

Posted by Vicky1706

I think we all agree that abortion is never an answer for promiscuity and a woman educated on proper birth control is best but I just don't think anyone should be able to pass a law governing a woman's body.

Very well said. Though I would add that both women AND men need to be educated on proper birth control.

Absolutely!

Bride626 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:13 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by eroxgirl

My question is this: many pro-life supporters believe that because abortion is taking a life, but what of that quality of that life? Do you believe it is better that an unwanted child be born to a parent that will resent and mistreat them? What kind of life is that? Is it better to be put through the system, in foster care, moved from house to house with no stability? Is that better for the child? Is that a better life than none at all? Not in my opinion.

.

Well, I have no clue as to the cancer/abortion link. But, I did want to comment on this post.

Who are we to evaluate what lives are and what lives are not worth living?? You do not dispute that it is the taking of a life, i.e. murder, but you feel that women are able to determine whether that life is worth living.

I know a social worker in a Bronx HS. She routinely counsels about safe sex and that seems to be routinely ignored by many of her clients. In such circumstances, she strongly advocates abortion. She claims that she is doing the student and society a favor because the baby has 'no chance' and everyone is better off without these 'burdens'. Who knew that an MSW made you God and able to determine what lives are worth living?? I'm sorry but I think that this is not only an arrogant but a rascist position. (99% of the school is black.)

Where is the hope? I think every baby deserves a chance....even if the odds are stacked against them. Even a child from the ghetto can grow up to do great things and have a happy life. I strongly disagree that a lack of money or supportive parents means that you do not have a right to be born. I think that this argument proffered by the pro-abortion movement is wholly without merit.

Jordan Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:15 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by eroxgirl

Besides, the people who get that far and change their minds usually do give birth...they just throw their babies in the trash can when they're through.

The nerve of some bosses!

Well, at least those babies were born.

I'm one of those ProChoicers that does not regard a fetus as a baby - until that fetus is viable. I don't see why a fetus should have the same rights as a grown woman...there is a huge disconnect there for me.

CubanBride Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:20 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Vicky1706
So you've stated your 'facts' that the ladies above have graciously proved are biased and you want to be able to look at both sides of the issue.

What happens to the pregnancies that aren't aborted (for fear the mother would get cancer of course)? What becomes of the children whose mothers are unfit?

I think we all agree that abortion is never an answer for promiscuity and a woman educated on proper birth control is best but I just don't think anyone should be able to pass a law governing a woman's body.

And people wonder why kids are in such a screwed up state. No one gives a **** about them.

Ok, you don't want to accept the statistics, fine. I know them to be accurate. But whatever.

Bride626 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:21 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Actually, many partial birth abortions are due to the increasing use of sophisticated genetic testing. Parents find out late in the pregnancy that their baby is retarded, has Downs or another physical disability and then decide that they do not want to carry it to term....even though it is nearly born.

Jordan Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:22 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by CubanBride

Ok, you don't want to accept the statistics, fine. I know them to be accurate. But whatever.

Just b/c you say they're accurate and just b/c anti-choice groups assert they are accurate, does not make them accurate.

Facts and studies, make them accurate and that is what the ACS, along with other organizations, base their information on. Not some religious-backed, scare tactic.

CubanBride Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:22 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Jordan
I'm one of those ProChoicers that does not regard a fetus as a baby - until that fetus is viable. I don't see why a fetus should have the same rights as a grown woman...there is a huge disconnect there for me.

I consider abortion wrong after the fetus is viable. The youngest viable fetus embryo I have ever heard of is 20 weeks. Abortions are allowed up to 24 weeks. Cut the timeframe for abortions down to 20 weeks and I would be happy.

Jordan Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:24 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Bride626

Actually, many partial birth abortions are due to the increasing use of sophisticated genetic testing. Parents find out late in the pregnancy that their baby is retarded, has Downs or another physical disability and then decide that they do not want to carry it to term....even though it is nearly born.

Back that up with unbiased facts - instead of opinion.

CubanBride Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:24 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by Jordan

Posted by CubanBride

Ok, you don't want to accept the statistics, fine. I know them to be accurate. But whatever.

Just b/c you say they're accurate and just b/c anti-choice groups assert they are accurate, does not make them accurate.

Facts and studies, make them accurate and that is what the ACS, along with other organizations, base their information on. Not some religious-backed, scare tactic.

First off, I didn't get them from an anti-choice group. I wouldn't even bother. I got them from a cancer awareness organization not related to any religious group. People here aren't stupid and would see right through that.

BTW-I have lived thorugh this 6 years ago so I know the accuracy of the stats a little bit too well. People here already know of my situation.

Vicky1706 Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:26 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by CubanBride

Posted by Vicky1706
So you've stated your 'facts' that the ladies above have graciously proved are biased and you want to be able to look at both sides of the issue.

What happens to the pregnancies that aren't aborted (for fear the mother would get cancer of course)? What becomes of the children whose mothers are unfit?

I think we all agree that abortion is never an answer for promiscuity and a woman educated on proper birth control is best but I just don't think anyone should be able to pass a law governing a woman's body.

And people wonder why kids are in such a screwed up state. No one gives a **** about them.

Ok, you don't want to accept the statistics, fine. I know them to be accurate. But whatever.

No one ever said I didn't give a **** about kids!!! It is the exact opposite...I care so much about kids that I wouldn't want to see even one be born if they are unwanted and end up as a statistic. What are you going to say next, that the government should reinforce orphanages???

Jordan Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:27 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

Posted by CubanBride

First off, I didn't get them from an anti-choice group. I wouldn't even bother. I got them from a cancer awareness organization not related to any religious group. People here aren't stupid and would see right through that.

BTW-I have lived thorugh this 6 years ago so I know the accuracy of the stats a little bit too well. People here already know of my situation.

Could you provide a link? Because the acronym you provided turned up many anti-choice organizations.

I am sorry you went through this.

Unfortunately, according to many reputable organizations in the cancer field (for the 4th time!!!), there is NO link between abortion and breast cancer. None, zero, zilch.

Johnny&Maur Posted: Nov 03, 2004 05:28 PM

Re: Sensitive topic but curious to know..

I think the bottom line is that we all have to respect the others views. I am stubborn myself, and I will always feel a certain way about this issue but the vast amounts of opinions, statistics and information is incredible. I know it helps me to get inside other people's heads and see what they are feeling....

Thanks for sharing opinions and its nice to know I am not alone! I'm sorry if this topic went the wrong way, or infuriated anyone. I hope not cause it wasn't my intention.