SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Original post by marymoon

Jul 07, 2004 12:44 AM

I've heard a lot of Jewish brides say they won't use the wedding march b/c Wagner was an antisemite. What do you think of this?

For me, i don't know what I'm going to choose, I haven't thought about it yet, but I don't think I would discount the wedding march for that reason. I don't think it's making much of a statement because not many people know, but moreso because there's no money or support lent to wagner because of you playing the song. He's dead, you're not fueling his antisemitism. I don't really see what it does to not play the song...

marymoon Posted: Jul 10, 2004 05:46 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

An earlier version of that post, which got eaten said 'because most boycotts are about not lending financial support to thinkg you don't believe in' maybe that would have made it sound better. I wasn't trying to sound antagonistic. I was explaining why I didn't understand not playing it, and hoping someone could clarify and tell me about why they are not playing it, because maybe there's something I'm missing, and obviously there was, so I'm really glad I asked the question. I'm recognizing that people can disagree on something and have a discussion about it. I wasn't trying to knocn anyone who isn't using it because like I said, i don't know if I'm going to use it or not. I wouldn't have asked or borught it up if I felt like I hd all the facts and my decision was made. I wanted to get all of the facts and I recognized that I have a conflict on this matter and I was just stating it. It's hard because there's no inflection when typing but moreson because I think everyone on the boards is on edge and expecting everything to be antagonistic

heidla Posted: Jul 10, 2004 05:50 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

All I can say is that it is a personal choice. I would not support an artist that belived in something that I am so against (even if he is dead). Just like I am not gay, but I refuse to stay at resorts that state in their rules that homosexual couples are not allowed.

myasmom Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:05 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Marymoon.
I feel your anguish. and since I promised myself not to get involved..I will break that promise for you since I sense a repeat of yesterday coming.

I think that everyone needs to take a step back and take a deep breath..thats what should have happened yesterday.

This is a computer. There are no emotions. Only WORDS. If a post sounds negative instead of adding fire to a flame (which we dont even know even exits) just ask ???s about the root of the thread. I see it all too often that a post that can be taken in a negative way or a good way depending on 'who' is reading it starts getting out of control.

For a minute believe that people are not intentionally trying to cause controversy even if its a controversial topic...and if it is..maybe the individual does not even realize that the verbage is the problem...not the actual question.

This post has no right or wrong answer..just personal values..always remember that

prncssrachel Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:07 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

I hope I didn't add to the crap, I was just trying to explain about Wagner since I teach music history and am a professional musician.

MrsK-in-June05 Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:07 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Posted by jannshari

I don't care if the guy is dead and not making a dime off of the song being played. Just as I would not quote Hitler on my wedding day (even if the quote was about how blue the sky is and having nothing to do with Jews), I would not have a single moment of my wedding tinged with anything that came from someone who simply hated my ancestors, and, in turn, me, because of my religion. I know what he stood for as does almost every single person who will be at my wedding.

It's a personal decision which, in light of the clearly prejudicial viewpoint of the composer, should not have to be justified to anyone.

Amen sista!! I could not find the proper words to describe my fury..very nicely put!

jannshari Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:10 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Yet again, maybe I'm missing something, but I don't think anyone attacked anyone in this thread. However, you are likely to get some very strong opinions and reasons for this personal decision. The composer of this song HATED Jews because they were Jews. It's a harsh thing to think about and I know that I, for one, don't want to even take the chance that I'll be thinking about such a disgusting human being on my wedding day.

But again, it seems like when someone else feels strongly about something in answering a question, that person must be getting attacked.

Where's the eye roll emoticon?

marymoon Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:19 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

121502: I really appreciated what you said, actually. I wanted to know the facts and the reasons and the feelings. Before that all i heard was this vague 'well I won't play it b/c wanger was an antisemite'... I don't have a historical memory or meaning to this. I didn't know anything about it unti; people were mentioning it and I didn't know why. I went to a high school named for a notorious antisemite. I didn't know until I was already there. TONS of Jewish people there..were we not supposed to go to the best high school in NYC? Maybe not. I don't know.

Also, to everyone, I wasn't asking ANYONE to justify anything and I'm sorry if it came out that way. I realized too late that it didn't sound the way I wanted it to. I just wanted to hear your opinions on the subjecyt because it came up, and because I really wasn't quite sure how I felt about it, so I wanted to hear other opinions so I could make my decision with more information. I'm also glad we're discussing it so more people can know about it and make their decisions having a lot of the facts.

I'm really not sure...and I'm not trying to sound antagonistic with this either, It's just weird because so many people have been antisemities, racists and homophobes throughout history...where do you draw the line? At my school people are campaigning to take down a statue of thmas jefferosn because he was a slaveholder...well so was everyone else in virginia at the time. it doens't by any means make it right, but almost eveyr historical figure or great composer or artist has done something really morally repugnant whther we know it or not. I don't think Hofstra put upa statue of thomas jefferosn becausethey thought the fact that he had over 200 slaves was great, but because he penned the declaration of independence (whihc originally did have a clause outlawing slavery). I think you sort of have to put things in the context of a time period. Were all of the germans who supported the nazis bad people? No way. misguided, for sure, but not all bad people. I'm not trying to say anyone's wrong for not wanting to play wagner, I'm just giving the other side. I find it must easier to find fury when it's something going on today, like heidla mentioned about resorts who don't allow homosexuals. I had a big post about that, and I won't go to anyplace like that...I guess it's the same impulse, but I'm finding it hard to find any personal rage against wagner ebcause he lived so long ago.

MrsK-in-June05 Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:20 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

two topics not to bring up...religon and politics.

nehaliasz Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:21 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

I don't even have a clue as to what the wedding march is, who wagner is or any of this, but it is an interesting topic.

jannshari Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:25 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

I don't understand why you feel the need to give the 'other side' on an issue like this. I chose not to use the Wedding March for the reasons I stated. Do you think hearing your opinion on it is going to change my mind? To me, there is no other side as it's a personal decision.

You should do whatever makes you comfortable, but I don't understand why you feel the need to question why anyone else is choosing not to use the song.

myasmom Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:29 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

White flag waving frantically No more !

jannshari Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:32 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Mya, with all due respect, if you can't take it anymore, please just don't post to the thread. This is a very important issue to me (my religion and ancestry) and I will not stop posting in response to questions posed by someone else just because you are not comfortable with the direction this thread is going in.

I have nothing against you...really. But please, if you are getting upset by this thread, avoid it. You don't need to be upset by it and I don't need to be told to stop posting, either directly or indirectly.

myasmom Posted: Jul 10, 2004 06:43 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

All I meant to say is..I sense that the topic is taking a nasty turn. Never said to stop posting.

Just trying to say that this topic is imortant..not superficial like yesterday. And it would be nice if a discussion/conversation can be just that. Respectful without questioning the relativity of why a topic was started..or what someoneis trying to prove....

And like you...I shall post where I want..i think we both established that yesterday.

P.S the topic is not me so if there is something else to be said I have FM and it can be discussed prvately.

ETS: FM is a beautiful thing and so is this post. We can all agree to disagree

May05Bride Posted: Jul 10, 2004 07:36 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

For me, I feel like since I am having Chuppa, I need to play 'hebrew' or 'Jewish' songs...

So for me, I am not going to play that simply because I feel a 'jewish' song would lead to the 'jewish' mood

groovypeg Posted: Jul 11, 2004 01:38 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Posted by marymoon

I've heard a lot of Jewish brides say they won't use the wedding march b/c Wagner was an antisemite. What do you think of this?

For me, i don't know what I'm going to choose, I haven't thought about it yet, but I don't think I would discount the wedding march for that reason. I don't think it's making much of a statement because not many people know, but moreso because there's no money or support lent to wagner because of you playing the song. He's dead, you're not fueling his antisemitism. I don't really see what it does to not play the song...

Marymoon, your original post, of which I have quoted above, was written in such a way that I thought I NEEDED to give an explaination as to why I will not be using that song.

You asked a question. You got answers. Again, a personal choice is just that. If you took my post as being antagonistic, again, that's your choice. It was not meant to be.

Anti semitism is still pervasive through out the world. Just today a woman in France was attacked by an anti-semitic group. It still exists.

I am glad you learned something from this thread. Now share it with the rest of the world.

jill13bean Posted: Jul 11, 2004 02:40 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

is this .... HERE COMES THE BRIDE?????????

cluelessbride Posted: Jul 11, 2004 02:48 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

I'll be choosing something else. Even though I can appreciate Wagner's talent, I will feel very uncomfortable listening to his song as I walk down the aisle.

A musical history question: Did Wagner add the words or was that much later?

prncssrachel Posted: Jul 11, 2004 09:18 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Posted by cluelessbride

I'll be choosing something else. Even though I can appreciate Wagner's talent, I will feel very uncomfortable listening to his song as I walk down the aisle.

A musical history question: Did Wagner add the words or was that much later?

It's a lose translation from the opera Lohengrin. 'Here Comes the Bride', as we call it, was written for the wedding scene in this opera.

marymoon Posted: Jul 12, 2004 11:44 AM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

Why is everyone so ******* antagonistic? GRRRRRR

There is NOTHING wrong with saying 'This is how I feel. I want to understand how you feel.'

I don't think anything I said even had a hint of trying to change anyone's mind. Why would I want to? I think it's awesome to stand up for what you believe in. I can't find who posted it, was it heidla? Who said 'I wouldn't quote hitelr at my wedding, even if he said something great about...' I mean, I've been thinking about that a lot. That really brought it home for me. How come I'm not allowed to say 'This is my opinion...tell me your side' because I want to UNDERSTAND, not antagonize.

I mean, if ANYTHING, this post was meant to say 'This is what I don't understand on this issue, maybe you'll change MY mind.' Because I figured there muct be a real reason people don't play Wagner, and I felt like maybe I was missing an important part of it, and I was...so now I have some more info to talk to FH about!

I have been on this board for 5 months now, and I've NEVER tried to change anyone's mind about anything. I've brought up different points to make people think, like this and sandals, etc.. So people na discuss things intelligently. I've NEVER been atagonistic to anyone. it seems like on this board whenever you say something other than 'oh girl, you look so great in dress #3' you're being a *****. Why is that?

laudipop Posted: Jul 12, 2004 12:58 PM

Re: SPINOFF: Wagner Antisemite -Wedding March?

marymoon, I have to say I've enjoyed this thread enormously. It's been very informative and helpful. I don't really think anyone has attacked anyone else at all. Maybe people are a little sensitive when it comes to matters of religion, but that's about it. I'm glad you started the topic.