Atheist group objects to steel 'cross' at Ground Zero
'This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult'
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
A steel beam in the symmetrical shape of a cross — a remnant from the World Trade Center wreckage — has drawn criticism from an atheist group, which objects to the artifact being kept at Ground Zero as a religious emblem. The trade center site is owned by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the bistate governmental agency that also operates the region’s three major airports and bridges and tunnels connecting the two states.
“Many people who died on September 11 weren’t Christian. There were Jews, Muslims, and atheists who died,” Ellen Johnson, president of American Atheists based in New Jersey, told The Trentonian newspaper for Monday’s editions. “This is a Christian religious advertisement, and allowing it to stay there is an insult to everyone who doesn’t believe in that particular religion.”
Johnson and her group, founded by the late Madelyn Murray O’Hare, is considering a lawsuit to prevent the beam from becoming part of any permanent memorial to the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.
The beam was discovered two days after the attacks by construction worker Frank Silecchia as he searched for survivors.
A Franciscan priest, the Rev. Brian Jordan, blessed the cross and used it for months as a gathering place to celebrate Sunday Mass for ground zero workers and family members.
The names of fallen police officers and firefighters were also scribbled on the cross, along with the message “May God forgive their evil.”
Almost two years later, the 20-foot cross remains along Church Street, the eastern border of the 16-acre site. A petition was undertaken to make it a part of a permanent memorial.
The Lower Manhattan Development Corp., a city-state group overseeing the rebuilding of the area, has made no decisions on what a ground zero memorial would include.
Liz...I agree...i thought we were very civilly disagreeing...
I don't find the cross offensive...I am all for leaving it there temporarily and being moved...
for me its a question of preserving my Constitutional rights...
although on another thread I was called unAmerican for not reciting the pledge b/c of religious wording...I feel my defense of the Constitution is very American
LizD
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Me and you were, somewhere it is starting to get out of hand.
We are all entitled to our belief's and our opinions, that is what America is all about.
I think some of us are forgetting that (omg - I am sounding so liberal--so not me)
112903
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I can't stand when people turn things into a circus!!!! There are way too many frivilous lawsuits in this country......
i think this board is a little more conservative than liberal... although I try to consider myself moderate...I'm looking very liberal in this thread...
ouch...i don't think protecting 1st amendment rights as frivilous...
LizD
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lol.. forget moderate - if I really said what I want to (and believe me, it is not against the athiests), I would probably be banned for life!!
LizD
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112903 - yes like, 'mcdonalds made my kid fat', the coffee at 'starbucks is too hot' that is frivolous, religious suits, though you and I may not agree with them are there for a reason..
ChristineC68
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I think this thread has been very civil. I enjoyed the debate and learned a lot. Although I cannot believe I said you can call me liberal.
Wendy
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Erica I was not speaking of your posts specifically. There are many posts which refer to 'Christians' as if there is one group who follow all the same beliefs. It's sort of like saying that all blondes are dumb. Let's just dump everyone together rather than recognize that there are many different denominations of Christians, not all of whom are militant right wingers bent on world (or even US) domination. I was raised as a Congregationlist, which is a very liberal minded denomination and pretty far left of Catholic and not even in an orbit with Jerry Falwell. There is a very broad interpretation of the Bible and no way would you find someone of this denomination trying to push God or any other belief on you. Each person is left to make up their own mind as to what they do or don't believe. Yet this is considered a Christian religion.
I don't base what I feel on this subject on a religious belief, but rather on a human belief. Be it a window, a ceiling tile or a T-shaped piece of metal, if it brings comfort to people then I believe it belongs there.
LizD
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Wendy - very nicely said
112903
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I think every person has the right to worship a God or no God. I would never bash anyone for not having the same beliefs as me. and by the way REv. Gerri Falwell is an A$$.. He has no clue
shamma
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Look what I missed all day. I say leave the cross. If others want something there let them have their's too, whatever can bring these families comfort I am all for it.
deby
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On a side note, for people who are offended by the use of 'God' in public forums... ever read the back of US money?... 'In God We Trust' Anybody wanna sue?
IrishTracy
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This topic kept me up all night. I wanted to get the right words out. I stopped reading after about page 2. So here my thought/opinions for what it’s worth!
What kind of world/example are we setting for our children & our children’s children when we sue about EVERYTHING!! Something is not what I believe lets cause uproar. The word God is in the Pledge of Allegiance “it shouldn’t be said in public school. Hell, in fact it should be taken out all together” It’s worked for hundreds of years & all of a sudden it bothers people. THEN DON’T SAY IT!!!
I wonder if these people REALLY remember what happened on Sept 11! My husband & I were watching a documentary on it last night. And they show that plane go threw the Twin Towers. My heart sank again like it was 2 years ago. They talked to a company where all but 1 of their employees got out. They talked about what they saw & what they went through. It was unimaginable!!! My brother-in-law went to Ground Zero in May he said you could still smell the death all around. He said it’s such a numbing feeling. He couldn’t shake it.
So, my point is for the thousands of family members that go down there to pay their respects to their loved ones & have to smell that smell. And remember that their Father/Mother/Brother/Sister/Grandparents/Grandchildren is never coming back. If the cross that WAS NOT MADE helps them feel a little better. What’s the problem? How do you explain to the 100+ little girls & boys who are turning 2 soon that NEVER got to be held by their Daddies that a symbol is wrong.
Comments like these make me want to isolate my Son from all the HATE in the world. And that what it turns out to be the feeling of hate. Hatred for one & another’s beliefs. I think we are going backwards in our thinking & it makes me sad!!!
ChristineC68
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I do not think this thread has been about HATRED for other's beliefs, on the contrary it's been more about respect and knowledge that not everyone believes the same thing. This is a constitutional right of all Americans that MUST be protected.
Cross, no cross my memories of 9/11 will never fade. My heart was permenantly broken for the lives, sense of security and innocense that was lost on 9/11.
Misty
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This topic has legs of it's own. I can't believe it's still going on!
And, I really wish people would read the posts before freaking out, and would LISTEN to what people are saying as they read. No one is insulting anyone, no one is bashing...and no one here is trying to get anyone to 'find God'. Sheesh, this was a topic about a sensitive subject that effects all of us, and you'd think for a minute that we could refrain from turning this into a mudslingiing, insult spewing fest. I mean, I don't think they do that on 'bible Jesus freak websites' do they? Up until that precious comment, we were having a very very intelligent discussion. Thanks for turning into pure crap!
That was my last word. Officially.
Shamee
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It's interesting to see who 'assumed' I was referring to them. I don't recall specifically mentioning any one individual, but take insult as you may.
I guess I'd better be more 'sensitive' to everyone in the world. I shouldn't put up my Christmas lights because it might insult someone, I better not drive a red car because someone might find it offensive, and dare I not express an opinion that's not popular on this board....
NUF SAID!!!
America...land of the free
LIW....land of the one sided opinion. No surprise my interest and involvement has drifted...
ChristineC68
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You all are taking very definite stands and declaring your ideals and principles - yet I'm assuming most, if not all of you got married in some form of religious place of worship? And now we're getting uppity about God and being politically correct! Please people! If you don't live under some form of belief, then why did you bother getting married in a church, synogogue, mosque? Why not the park, etc.? Not pretty enough for the pics??? I see where the priority lies...
Shamee - who exactly were you referring to with this remark? I guess I 'assumed' you were speaking to 'most, if not all of us' that participated in this thread.
Shamee
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Okay, but where did I say that everyone was a hypocrite???
Is it wrong to assume that most of the ladies on here got married in some form of religious location or had any form of religion referenced in their service?!?
Misty
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Shamee, I think the point is that no, you can't assume that. People on here had ceremonies completely void of this (like Erika) so to imply that they are hypocritcal is wrong. It's a generalization just as bad as the one that 'all' Christians are trying to impose their beliefs on people.
And with that, I'm back in this again! I feel like a referee now. I'm sorry I started this.