Do we dare?.... How do you feel about?....

---

Posted by joshisgirl

---

Posted by Colette

Wow jenn, you have a knack for this...

I am schizophrenic on the issue and I admit it.

-I know all the evidence points to it being an EXPENSIVE and INEFFECTIVE 'solution' using the term lightly.

---

colette, do u now how expensive it is? just curious...

---

I'm not exactly sure, but I remember reading that it was in the ballpark of about 38% more expensive because the typical death penalty conviction goes through several levels of appeals.

People don't realize that it isn't a black and white system.. You aren't sentenced to death and then.... killed.

Excerpt from :

An Economic Analysis of the
Death Penalty
by: Martin Kasten


Total Costs of a Capital Case
The total costs of a capital case, beginning with the investigation costs and ending with
the execution costs, are estimated to range in the millions of dollars. Studies conducted in
Florida, North Carolina, and Texas estimate capital cases cost an average of $3.36
million, $2.16 million, and $2.3 million, respectively (Keve 1992, Johnson 1995). The
highest estimates are in California where a single capital case is estimated to cost
between $4.35 and $5.44 million (Tashima 1991).
Estimated costs to the states on a yearly basis are astounding. A California study
estimated that the state spends an additional $90 million per year because of its
imposition of the death penalty (National Law Journal 1995). New Jersey's death penalty
annually costs that state an additional $22.8 million dollars over the estimated costs of a
life imprisonment system (Keve 1992). A 1987 study found that the death penalty process
would cost Kansas an extra $14,306,374 annually (Keve 1992). In 1989, the New York
Department of Correctional Services estimated that New York's adoption of the death
penalty would cost the state approximately $141 million dollars per year (Dieter 1992).

I believe in the Eye for an Eye theory, and I am for Capital Punishment.....

But I feel that it should be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt for it to happen and unfortunately that is usually really had to do....

---

Posted by Toots123

Against it 100%

---

ITA. My reasons are because it doesnt deter crime, its a barbarian act, the possibility of error, and most importantly its major negative effects on society. Acts like this only brutalize society and show us that its okay to kill those to get 'revenge' or 'closure.' Imo it lowers the value of a life.

---

Posted by joshisgirl

---

Posted by Colette

Wow jenn, you have a knack for this...

I am schizophrenic on the issue and I admit it.

-I know all the evidence points to it being an EXPENSIVE and INEFFECTIVE 'solution' using the term lightly.

---

colette, do u now how expensive it is? just curious...

---

Its really hard to quote the figures in realistic terms, because the Cost question is used by BOTH the pro and anti sides to justify their agendas; there don't seem to be any 'objective' studies (that I can find anyway).

Also of note, most of the cost comparisons are done on a state basis, not national, so there are too many variables to do a true controlled study..

Here's an excerpt I found, and of course, this is from a group working for the abolition of Capital Punishment, so read it with that in mind:

Executions are carried out at staggering cost to taxpayers.

It costs far more to execute a person than to keep him or her in prison for life. A recent New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. 'From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one,' the report concluded. Michael Murphy, former Morris County, NJ prosecutor, remarked: 'If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypothetical or abstractions, I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools.'

---

Posted by milana

---

Posted by Toots123

Against it 100%

---

ITA. My reasons are because it doesnt deter crime, its a barbarian act, the possibility of error, and most importantly its major negative effects on society. Acts like this only brutalize society and show us that its okay to kill those to get 'revenge' or 'closure.' Imo it lowers the value of a life.

---

I agree with you. Very well put.

I am for it for the most part. If the person is a cold blooded killer (like doesn't need what we call a guardian ad litem because they are mentally incapable of assisting in their own defense), all for it.

However, if they actually have a conscience (rare), life without parole. Live each day knowing what you have done.

But I am more for solitary confinement and bad food for them. Imagine that. And nothing around for them to kill themselves.

There is no perfect punishment or solution. I think it should be considered on a case by case basis.

Don't tell my Legal Aid co-workers!

---

Posted by carolinep24

love it.

always a crowd pleaser and entertaining event.





In all honesty though:
I think it is ineffective... and thoughts of it it will evolve the way slavery was. Both concepts had the support of a majority of the public and legal standing, but over time came to be seen as civilly immoral.

---

Oh, it is completely ineffective in deterring crime. What I have come to learn in my profession is that those who are in the system don't think the way the rest of us do. This is the norm for them. I have kids that are excited when the judge sentences them to secure remand for 8 months. Like it is some gift the judge just bestowed on them. So that has to come into consideration. Sociopaths will be just that-sociopaths!

YAY this is goign well. Maturity our name is LIW

I agree that it seems to be ineffective because as Mich said, sociopaths will always be that. However, despite it beign 'ineffective' I think it does definetly have some good effects as in one LESS wackadoo out there on the streets and hurting innocent people which is good enough for me.

We interrupt this thread to bring you...



a pre-emptive group hug....

a la Jess/Preshus Smurf

---

Posted by Colette

We interrupt this thread to bring you...



a pre-emptive group hug....

a la Jess/Preshus Smurf

---

---

colette, do u now how expensive it is? just curious...

---

Its really hard to quote the figures in realistic terms, because the Cost question is used by BOTH the pro and anti sides to justify their agendas; there don't seem to be any 'objective' studies (that I can find anyway).

Also of note, most of the cost comparisons are done on a state basis, not national, so there are too many variables to do a true controlled study..

Here's an excerpt I found, and of course, this is from a group working for the abolition of Capital Punishment, so read it with that in mind:

Executions are carried out at staggering cost to taxpayers.

It costs far more to execute a person than to keep him or her in prison for life. A recent New Jersey Policy Perspectives report concluded that the state's death penalty has cost taxpayers $253 million since 1983, a figure that is over and above the costs that would have been incurred had the state utilized a sentence of life without parole instead of death. 'From a strictly financial perspective, it is hard to reach a conclusion other than this: New Jersey taxpayers over the last 23 years have paid more than a quarter billion dollars on a capital punishment system that has executed no one,' the report concluded. Michael Murphy, former Morris County, NJ prosecutor, remarked: 'If you were to ask me how $11 million a year could best protect the people of New Jersey, I would tell you by giving the law enforcement community more resources. I'm not interested in hypothetical or abstractions, I want the tools for law enforcement to do their job, and $11 million can buy a lot of tools.'

---

thats pretty interesting! i just figured imprisonment would cost more...

---

Posted by milana

---

Posted by Toots123

Against it 100%

---

ITA. My reasons are because it doesnt deter crime, its a barbarian act, the possibility of error, and most importantly its major negative effects on society. Acts like this only brutalize society and show us that its okay to kill those to get 'revenge' or 'closure.' Imo it lowers the value of a life.

---

this is so well said.... and honestly for me it's so hard to say where i really stand on this subject.. i go back & forth a billion times. Part of me really feels like the above statement entirely.... but then i try to picture myself in a courtroom, in front of someone who BRUTALLY murdered or tortured a close family member and how i would feel...especially a child... to me it's an impossible thing to fathom untill u're in it i guess. I will say that i do agree with the above poster...and i think it's amazing when you see families of victims truly forgive the murderer/rapist/whatever the case may be & leave their fate in the hands of God...i think it takes a TREMENDOUS amount of strength... however I dont think i can say i'd be able to feel one way or the other unless i was in the situation. Part of me feels like 'This disgusting scum of a human being should get done EXACTLY what he/she did to the victim', while the other part of me is like 'let him/her rot in jail, and when they die - hell is far worse than anything we could ever imagine so let the big guy upstairs deal with it'..

i just dont know - i've gone back & forth on this subject a bagillion times & i've always had a fickle answer...because while i AM against it, i just can't imagine knowing that someone who did something so entirely barbaric to someone i love has a chance (slim but still there) to simply walk & be on the streets again... forgiveness would be in my heart, but part of me would want to KNOW that this person would never do it again...

also, i just have to say about posts & threads lately that have been going up...is it just me or am i the only one that doesnt think there's all THAT much judging & trying to sway opinion stuff going on??? I really do feel we've brought up many controversal subjects on the boards and we've all(atleast the majority of us) have been able to have mature adult discussions on it.... if anything has ever 'caused 'drama' or disagreements, to me that's all they've ever been....just disagreements(???)...untill name calling & accusations go up THATS when it turns into b/s(and we all know there's been some inparticular) ...but i think us girls have been pretty good about just talking about our personal views on things...no ??

im against it only becuase you should make the people suffer..if they are dead..and if there is a god and all is forgiven..you just gave that person the chance of salvation and entry into heaven for what is made out to be eternal happiness..god supposedly forgives all sins..even killers..so not exactly a good move if you believe in all that

with that said

i dont believe in god or anything like that
i do believe in preforming to the person whatever they are being convcted for

if you raped someone..have them get rapped for the rest of their life
stabbed someone..then you too will get stabbed to death

that might help

dont worry my sadistic mind

edit for sp

about the topic.
Torn. If that makes any sense.

---

Posted by gemmifer

about the topic.
Torn. If that makes any sense.

---

Makes perfect sense. many of us are torn. Its a tough topic.