Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

What did the comment about the catholic church mean? To have children?

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

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Posted by allure

Who cares what Tina's post was about

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I think everyone's respecting others' opinions on this, but that one seemed to come out of left field

As for me, I've always wanted kids, but definitely see all that's involved with them - I'm sure it changes your life like you've never dreamed, but it's also a very personal decision

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

I totally agree with you cmc about having no greater love than for your children..thats why we have chosen to ttc.

I didnt want to start a debate either but I just wanted to know what you meant by that.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

My DH and I are undecided. Although we definitely need to make up our minds soon, due to our ages.

At the rate we're going, it doesn't look like kids are a big priority for us.

I don't feel the maternal urge or desire to have a child, and I never have in the past either. My DH also never had any desires to be a father.

My only concern is that we will decide not to have children, and then regret it after it's too late.

I suppose it's one of those things you just can never to 100% sure of, either way.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Tina I hope you are OK.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Im assuming cmc meant that in many Catholic churchs, you must agree to have children and raise them in the Catholic faith or they will not marry you.

Supposedly to add more members of the congregation? I have no idea why the Catholic church makes people vow to have children (b/c lets face it, there are many people that make unfit parents and that is much more of a sin IMO than using birth control). However, not all Catholic churchs make you take this vow...ours did not. (Not that it would matter to me in the slightest since I dont make life decisions based on what someone else tells me is right.)

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

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Posted by Sonicstef

Im assuming cmc meant that in many Catholic churchs, you must agree to have children and raise them in the Catholic faith or they will not marry you.

Supposedly to add more members of the congregation? I have no idea why the Catholic church makes people vow to have children (b/c lets face it, there are many people that make unfit parents and that is much more of a sin IMO than using birth control). However, not all Catholic churchs make you take this vow...ours did not. (Not that it would matter to me in the slightest since I dont make life decisions based on what someone else tells me is right.)

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Stef...this post confuses me.

I have never heard of a church that MAKES people have children? The church *never* says YOU MUST have children. I think we all know how the Vatican feels about BC, but getting married has never stopped a couple from continuing to practice whatever BC works for them (at least in our generation!)

They ask you *if* you have a child, do you agree to raise your children according to the beliefs of the Catholic Church. This is all provided that you are open to children in your marriage to begin with (which IMO, is only between you and your DH) AND whether you are physically able to conceive a child. I have never heard of a church that says, 'You MUST have a child, in order for you to be married here.'

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

For anyone who are not sure or are afraid they will reqret it later...I did foster care for awhile and that is always an option if you want to see what it would be like with kids around. Also they do have many children in foster care that aren't going back to the parents and need to be adopted. In fact like I said in an above post, we decide the two children we have from previous relationships are all we are going to have, but we just filled out an application for foster care. My husband never had a foster child so I have to refill out an application with him on it. We are so looking forward to helping a child that needs some love and attention.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Sorry cmc, I thought that was what you were referring to - I was obviously wrong.


To explain what I wrote above:

I have studied quite a bit of Catholic doctrine and the church is quite clear about the purpose of marriage and sex. The rythm method loophole is just that - a loophole that contridicts everything the church espouses about sex. In a nutshell, any sort of sex not 'open' for reproduction is a sin. That includes oral, anal sex, homosexual sex, masturbation and sex where ANY birth control is used. (there is a lot of debate about why the rymthm method - which has no discernable religious difference from barrier forms of birth control or just plain 'pulling out' methods - was made allowable in recent catholism , but most believe it was because of world overpopulation and poverty.)

While the church may not make you sign an oath in blood that you MUST have children, its doctrine about marriage certiainly insists you must. So much so that if a couple decides they do not want children, they are entitled to a religious annulment which is quite a serious thing in the Catholic church. So that is how I interpreted the 'agreements' a couple makes to live in the Catholic faith before the wedding and that is how several priests have described it to me.

Obviously, there is a great deal of debate on this subject but it is mostly governed by the Humanae Vitae written by Pope Paul VI which you can read for yourself here:
here

I obviously do not agree with much of what the Catholic Church declares to be right and wrong but I think its important that Catholics know exactly what is involved in their preachings (whether or not you abide by them).

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

My mother was horrible woman.. did terrible things.. never deserved to have children.

Details are too painful to go into.

The point is, I used to be terrified of having children cause I thought I'd be like her. I had to grow out of that and realize I am NOT my mother and I will NOT treat my children like she did.

The whole church crap about marriage being a way to a means (children) I personally think is brainwashing BS. Does it mean childrenless couples are not fullfilling God's plan. Talk about a heavy burden.

To each their own.

To have kids or not, depends on the people. I think we want children, but we're not yet at the point to 'push' it.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Stef, that is where I think you were confusing me....you are simply spouting 'doctrine' - which we have discussed MANY times previously on newlywed board...

However, the way your previous post was written, you were saying that some churches and priests actually turned couples AWAY who wished to be married there, if they did not agree to absolutely produce a child from their marital union. I have never had a priest say this to me or any of my friends...so, that is what I disagreed with....I have simply never heard of such a thing happening...I think it is (sadly) more common for couples to be turned away if they are not 'regular parishoners' (aka...they are not contributing to the till enough) or if they have been divorced previously, etc.

I think we all know very well what the church thinks of sex before and sex within a Catholic marriage (whether we choose to agree with it or conduct our lives within those beliefs is a whole other thing). But, the church definitely cannot control a couple's ability to have children....so making it 'mandatory' in the way you implied above just seemed so heartless and unfair to the (I'm sure) thousands of Catholic couples who do live according to 'doctrine' but still suffer the burden of infertility.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Claud: Fair enough. I guess I consider Catholic doctrine to go hand in hand with the agreement you make to live by the laws they set out.

Im sure most people do not even read these things. But you may be surprised how many people do not realize the views the Catholic church has on sex and marriage (beyond the premarital sex issue) so I dont think its a waste of time to go 'spouting' doctrine. Catholism is such a huge part of society that it seems it worth examing the governing rules.


PS: I have had a priest tell me that if we do not plan (infertility implies that you are planning on having them) on having children there was no point in getting married. (which is in line with the concept that there is no point in having sex unless you want to procreate and you are not allowed to have sex unless you are married.) This is obviously a ludricious statement to me but not unheard of.

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

Stef...it's all good...I never said it was a waste of time...just confusing the two concepts was confusing the discussion....

And, I agree that infertility implies you want children...BUT - the church cannot predict these things BEFORE a couple is married in the church...so, to me it's not fair to tell a couple you MUST have children and then deny them from getting married in the church...that's my point...how does the church KNOW they'll even be able to conceive when the time comes? That's why in my head it doesn't make sense....

I have a very intimate understanding of the churchs' views on sex related to marriage...I have two women in my family who are nuns...

Re: Is anyone thinking of NOT having children?

I think the concept of wanting children is the question here (choice)..not infertile couples (no choice). There is a different explanation for infertile couples b/c their intent is in line with the churchs teachings. Much like a poor person not giving to the church is different than a rich person not giving to the church.

The church says that children must be in a couples plan - or that is how it has been explaned to me by clergy as well as how I interpret the Humanae Vitae. Obviously there are no fertililty tests prior to the wedding but I think the concept that the only people who should be childless are the ones that are unable to have children is insane. Its the concept that I find objectable.

In any case, I did not mean to turn this into a pro/con of Catholic doctrine. I thought that is what CMC was referring to but I was obviously incorrect.


PS: Yes, a priest said that to me. The short of the discussion went something like this (oversimplified):

US:'We do not go to mass regularly'
Priest: 'when you have children, how can you
bring them up in the Catholic faith without going to mass?'
US: 'We dont plan on having children'
Priest: 'Having children is the duty of a married couple and if you are not planning on having children you should not be married.'

Now, I think he has everyright to say that since that is what Catholic doctrine espouses. I think he would have had a different answer if we told him we were infertile but that was not something that applied to us.