C-sections...

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Posted by Sonicstef

As I said, maybe Im the only one who feels this way. All I know is that is how I feel about it. And since I dont know any large group of mothers in the 'real world' it makes me worry about how judgemental the mothering community is in general.

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If only the real world were as 'judgemental' as the wonderful women on this site...

Well said Jenn

Well said Jenn!!! And I agree totally. I do not think there is any competition AT ALL in the parenting board. I feel the opposite -- total support!!! When I had my miscarriage, the support I got from all the girls, most of whom I never met in my life, was amazing!!!! And everyone was there for me during my whole pregnancy and the gestational diabetes thing as well. For that, I am forever grateful and appreciative!!!

Yes, of course there will be differences of opinions and whatnot, but that's totally NORMAL. I do not feel that anybody is one-upping another or saying that they are a better mother then another or their child is better than someone else's.

As for competition, I feel there was more of that on the BHB board, and it's sad because it wasn't that way when I first joined LIW.

This thread did get a bit out of hand, but it's an emotional subject and every woman who has gone through childbirth is emotional about their experience. Not everyone's story is the same and some are worse then other's.

As grown, mature, adult women, which we all are, we should be able to tell our stories and opinions and feelings to each other without being in a competition or compared to each other -- which we do here on this board. The key is that we RESPECT each other and I feel that in the Parenting board there is an enormous amount of respect!!!!

As for the comment about 'in the real world' --is this not the real world? I didn't realize I've become friends with people in the 'fake world'!

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Posted by bearsbabe_113

As for the comment about 'in the real world' --is this not the real world? I didn't realize I've become friends with people in the 'fake world'!

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Well, Patrick DOES refer to you all as my 'Internet Freaks', but at least now he says it in an affectionate way.

I knew he loved us!!! I think it's because me and him bonded on our phone calls!!!!

Im glad you feel that way but based on what is being said in this thread and others, there seems to be less than a totally supportive envirnoment for everyone here. (Be that the csection moms think some are saying something negative about them or vice versa, or the TTCs are upset that this is even a discussion, etc..) Im just a lurker so its not an issue for me but I just wanted to present another side of the coin. Of course you are all entitled to think IM crazy.

And yes, its there on BHB and other boards too but I guess I see it more seriously here b/c if someone thinks my wedding color scheme is all wrong or Ive picked the wrong stove for my kitchen, Im not going to lose any sleep over it. But if I were a mommy to be and I felt like my decisions were being frowned upon, I would take it much more to heart b/c its so much more important. Does that make sense?

PS: I say 'real world' b/c I dont really know you guys aside from what you post on the board. Its not meant as a derogatory thing..i was just saying that if I get that vibe from people I have never even met, Im afraid of what personal interaction with mothers will be like when/if I become one.

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Posted by Sonicstef

PS: I say 'real world' b/c I dont really know you guys aside from what you post on the board. Its not meant as a derogatory thing..i was just saying that if I get that vibe from people I have never even met, Im afraid of what personal interaction with mothers will be like when/if I become one.

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why would you say that?( I dont mean this in a negative way) you and me and so many spend a lot of time on here at home and work, mostly more at work and it- I feel is b/c we 'know each other' and want to know what is going on w/ each other even if we dont 'know each other' personally. Why would we spend time here if we didnt feel we 'knew the people'

I have gotten so much help on these boards - especially parenting, I hope this dies down soon b/c this thread is very sad, I was going to stay out of it b/c I really didnt know what to say but since just about everyone has replied I might as well also.

I think everyone is entitled to their opinions and should be able to express it. I think that a baby is a blessing no matter how it comes to be delivered but we are all entitled to share our views. Sometimes they get taken wrong by others even when we dont mean too. Michele posted time and time again that her feelings were 'HER FEELINGS' granted that some TTCer's and others might have taken offense I dont think she intentionally meant to hurt anyone b/c I specifically remember in all her posts her saying that it was 'HOW SHE FELT ONLY' she wasnt generalizing for all those who had or may have a C- section and we have to remember that what one word means to one person like 'cheated' may mean something else to another so just b/c one person felt cheated that doesnt mean another would feel that way. We should respect everyones feelings

again, I hope this dies down soon b/c this bickering is so sad and everyone here is so helpful.

I will say that my friend Amy gave birth to Max through a really traumatic C -section, I should get her on here one day to post, I believe it had to do w/ them delivering or cutting her A**, sorry if TMI but when she told me her story I cried and then she said but she would do it all over again b/c it was worth it.

All moms have different feelings and stories to share but cant we just support them all

sorry so long, I think this is my longest post ever and dont know why tangentness got into me!

As a newbie to this whole process, I just want to say that I am grateful to everyone for their brutally honest birthing stories. I don't see it as a competition just differing experiences.

In the end though as long as my baby is happy and healthy it does not matter to me if I deliver vaginally or via c-section. I am developing a bond for a lifetime not just one-time only.

Stef don't worry when you become a mother you will take ALL the advice (sometimes helpful, sometimes confusing, sometimes annoying) with a grain of salt and do what is right for you.

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Posted by Sonicstef

Tammy: You're right..i just dont know how to properly explain the difference between people I 'know' in the virtual sense and people I know in the physical sense. This is all as real as anything else but I dont have the right terminology for what I mean.

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I think wrong terminology or misinterpreted terminology gets us all in trouble at times!
but basically I meant you wouldnt read or respond to these boards if you did not care or 'know ' the people b/c why would you or anyone waste their time? does that make sense? we are obviously interested/care or why would be here over a year, etc.

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Posted by Sonicstef

Im glad you feel that way but based on what is being said in this thread and others, there seems to be less than a totally supportive envirnoment for everyone here. (Be that the csection moms think some are saying something negative about them or vice versa, or the TTCs are upset that this is even a discussion, etc..) .

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How is this unsupportive?? It's just people's opinions. I can think you're as nutty as a fruit cake or that your birthing opinions and techniques are weird, but when push comes to shove ( ) if you (or anyone here) are a sincere member of this community I'm going to support you in your quest to become a parent as strongly as I do the people I am in total agreement with.

THAT, I think, is the essence of being a mom... to be able to say 'I may not like what you're doing or saying, but I LOVE you', and that is what I think we are all doing here. We may disagree, STRONGLY at times, but when a TTCer or a preggo, or a new mom is hurting or upset we try to help. Regardless of how we feel about the person's opinions, views or actions.
The things with Michele got blown out of proportion because we are all hormonal and passionate about the SAME thing (our birth experiences and being a parent in general), but I can assure you that there is not one person on this board, when all is said and done, who would not bend over backward to help or support her if she needed it, whenever she needed it.

Ok, I'm going to step up and say that I agree with what Stef has to say. I lurk on this board also, and honestly, the progression of this thread is very disturbing and bit discouraging.

When Michele posted her birth story, quite a few on this thread gave their heartfelt and very warm support with regards to her situation and they gave their understanding. And now, when it comes to this discussion and the other post, the same people are making implications that are simply not fair to her or her situation, and honestly, quite mean. We all know that a woman's desire to conceive, to give birth, and to be a good parent is a very emotional plight. It just strikes me as very disturbing that her words have been thrown in her face the way they have been and I personally think have been very misconstrued.

Michele posted for 9 months about the progression of her pregnancy, and about a great deal of disappointments she faced. She had a rough pregnancy, as evidenced by her posts here. I don't think she'd wish, or ANY of us would wish that on anyone else, and to be so unforgiving of the 'language' she used to describe her very emotional situation this whole time, one that any one of us could face very easily, and that some of us may be facing now, is just a huge disappointment to the dynamic of what is seemingly the best board on this site. It never seemed this way...I've been a lurker here for a while also, I just don't understand where or how it started to change.

I just hope that all of you who are mommys, soon to be mommies, or TTC can see past all of these 'language' barriers to the heart of what it's all about....a very emotional experience that is unique to each and every individual. And, that NONE of these feelings or experiences are wrong, and that all of them deserved to be shared and responded to with respect, not cattiness.

Best of luck to all of you.

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The things with Michele got blown out of proportion because we are all hormonal and passionate about the SAME thing (our birth experiences and being a parent in general), but I can assure you that there is not one person on this board, when all is said and done, who would not bend over backward to help or support her if she needed it, whenever she needed it.

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That may be true and I hope that is it. But as someone who is NOT a mommy, it doesnt feel that way to ME. It feels like if you have the 'right' opinions about motherhood, then you are embraced but if you have anything but a happily positive thing to say (and knowing myself, there is no way I would see certain things with the same positive outlook as most of you guys do. I wish I could, but I know myself.) then you are in someway looked down upon. So I could see me coming on her and complaining about something way more trivial than this like dealing with diaper rash or hemoroids or whatever and getting tomatoes thrown at me b/c Im not valuing the miracle of motherhood. That may not be the case at all, but that is how it seems to ME as a complete outsider. That is why I said it scares me. That was all I was trying to say.

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The things with Michele got blown out of proportion because we are all hormonal and passionate about the SAME thing (our birth experiences and being a parent in general), but I can assure you that there is not one person on this board, when all is said and done, who would not bend over backward to help or support her if she needed it, whenever she needed it.

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This seems to be the heart of this whole issue. The fact that the support she seemingly received here previously was thrown out the window, and most of what has been posted here came off as a great deal of negative judgement, which is something that should never come into play when it comes to a very emotional situation that is unique to the individual. This is what I found a bit scarey about the progression of this post.

Well said Jenn!! :hug

As for being hormonal -- you said it sister! Your hormones are all over the place and I think that's why everyone is so passionate about this thread. I don't think it's being catty at all!

I also went through a somewhat difficult pregnancy at times (with the GD) and I found the support on here helped me through a lot of it. When I was having my own pity party, my pals came and took me out it!! When I was happy, they shared that joy, when I was sad, they cheered me up, when I was stressed, they made me laugh and calmed me down. And I'm forever grateful!!!!

Yes, all of us were there (and still are) to support Michele and I'm sure everyone meant what they said. I just think that some people were bothered by some of the things she said and they wanted to express that feeling -- just like Michele wanted to express hers about her birthing experience. I don't think it's fair to say that everyone is being mean. IMO, I looked at it as being honest. I can see how those TTC or just miscarried felt hurt by the wording.

This subject is an emotional one and people will see two different sides of it.

I know that I'll be here for my friends, just like they are here for me!!

Sonicstef, I think that for you and I who are outside of the box, this all sounds very different! I come on this board to gather info for when my time comes. I am not even trying for my time yet. But I just can't find anything wrong with what Michele said or how she said it. Yes, I can understand those who disagree with her, but disagreeing with her doesn't make her statements, and more especially her feelings, somehow wrong.

Maybe it is just the way it comes across typed, but it seems like some people are ANGRY with Michele Emotional disagreement I can understand - especially the emotional disagreement of those having trouble TTC, but why anger?

Stef-youre totally and completely welcome to lurk the parenting boards,and hopefully get some great info from us (and not just bad karma like you mentioned )

I REALLY dont see this board as any less supportive than any other board, or any less than 'Real life'.
Ive never sensed competition of any sort on here. As a matter of fact, the moms seem to want to have gtg's quite often, to share experiences and advice.
Im just curious what you meant by competitive specifically?

What I was bothered by specifically and personally, which I mentioned right away in my post, was that M31 completely contradictied what she said and specifically requested of me and did not respect the 'positive outlook' new moms may have and continued to post, again and again, quite vivid and powerful posts...when just a few months ago, she was bothered and disturbed that I mentioned that my screams were heard downthe hall. I cant understand that at all. I dont think I have to say this again.

Stef-I dont think anyone would judge you if you complained about something silly diaper rash, lets say, , and tell you to value motherhood. Ive seen many of us say we cant wait to have a nice night out with our hubbies or that the baby is napping and we have some time to ourselves. Does that make us any less of a good parent? Has anyone judged eachother based on that? Just an example. We all know what motherhood is like and we know what complaints are truly worth 'complaining' about and what is completely over the edge (well im sure there are differences in opinion, but thats it, differences in opinion).
Being a good or bad parent has nothing to do with wanting time to yourself or complaining about something.

Yes, this is a VERY emotional subject and this obviously has 'hit home' with many, so they are expressing their feelings just as michele did. not any different. and they have every right to feel the way they do (without posting long posts about THEIR own tough times) and they can say exactly how they feel about constantly hearing something again and again.
It loses its power after hearing it so many times over.

While we dont really all 'know eachother' like Stef said, we do feel a closeness or some type of friendships, some stronger than others, like Tammy said, and we all do come on here to share our life experiences.
and Stef, I beleive this is as much 'real life' as it gets. Ive never hidden behind my screen name or held back my opinion on something.
Its sad that you, just from lurking feel that this is not a supportive forum.
I feel that its very supportive, fun, exciting and quite entertaining. Seeing and hearing about every child's milestones is great, and then meeting them in person is even better.


As far as 'the outside world' of mommies, its more supportive and connected than I ever thought. I NEVER thought there would be so many SAHM's, maybe its just because Im in the suburbs, and its more common. but everywhere I turn, grocery stores, libraries, bookstores, Target, there are moms ready to initiate friendships, go to the park together, go out for coffee (without the kids!) and share experiences. COmpetition is the furthest thing Ive encountered. I think that because alot of these moms have exited the corporate world, that STRONG sense of competition in corporate america, left with the job, and they are focused on their children, activities for them, and just a happy family life. The opposite of what I would call competitive.
and Im sure there are 'those few' in every bunch, but overall. Ive found the SAHM community, both online (there are SOOO many chat boards besides this one ) to be warm and friendly....

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Posted by Misty

Ok, I'm going to step up and say that I agree with what Stef has to say. I lurk on this board also, and honestly, the progression of this thread is very disturbing and bit discouraging.

When Michele posted her birth story, quite a few on this thread gave their heartfelt and very warm support with regards to her situation and they gave their understanding. And now, when it comes to this discussion and the other post, the same people are making implications that are simply not fair to her or her situation, and honestly, quite mean. We all know that a woman's desire to conceive, to give birth, and to be a good parent is a very emotional plight. It just strikes me as very disturbing that her words have been thrown in her face the way they have been and I personally think have been very misconstrued.

Michele posted for 9 months about the progression of her pregnancy, and about a great deal of disappointments she faced. She had a rough pregnancy, as evidenced by her posts here. I don't think she'd wish, or ANY of us would wish that on anyone else, and to be so unforgiving of the 'language' she used to describe her very emotional situation this whole time, one that any one of us could face very easily, and that some of us may be facing now, is just a huge disappointment to the dynamic of what is seemingly the best board on this site. It never seemed this way...I've been a lurker here for a while also, I just don't understand where or how it started to change.

I just hope that all of you who are mommys, soon to be mommies, or TTC can see past all of these 'language' barriers to the heart of what it's all about....a very emotional experience that is unique to each and every individual. And, that NONE of these feelings or experiences are wrong, and that all of them deserved to be shared and responded to with respect, not cattiness.

Best of luck to all of you.

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Misty, I completely agree with you. Honestly, I think alot of women here are internalizing Michele's own very personal emotions, and truthfully that is their problem, not hers. JMO.

To claim that Michele is wrong or not permitted to post her feelings and emotions about her personal experience b/c it might upset someone who is desperately TTC, is like ME saying that I'm devasted and can't bare to hear that Anna, Liz and Victoria are all preggo w/their second child, when their first kids are all younger than Paul and I can't (for my own health and medical reasons) TTC my second child yet. Of course, this is not how I feel, but it's the best example that I can give. This collective aggression is misplaced and very sad.

It's like a gang war on here, and I have to say, Stef - if I weren't already a Mommy, I'd be scared too!

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Posted by Claud2001

It's like a gang war on here, and I have to say, Stef - if I weren't already a Mommy, I'd be scared too!

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That's just it. Who would want to post a personal issue like this and be judged in such a harsh light, which is how this whole thing has come off. Especially when just a few weeks ago, everyone was so supportive of the same issue. It just makes everything seem so (pardon the use of a very immature term) two-faced.