Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Original post by marymoon

May 08, 2005 04:40 PM

****** I realized I didn't put 'maybe' on the poll...just use 'what is this' as maybe*****

What do you think of this?

Fh and I have had a few heated deabtes over the circumcison issue, and we don't even plan to have kids for years.

The reason it came up again recently is because on our favorite show (penn and teller bullsh--), they had an episode on it, and they actually showed circumcisons taking place. EW. It was SO scary.

My take on it is that it's barbaric, it's completely uneccesary and it causes under strain on a baby. They're now saying that there's no medical reason for it (just take a shower!), and I just can't see removing it for no reason. I'm not going to go into surgery to have my appendix out if it isn't enflamed. Should I also have my newbors undergo tonsilectemies? I mean ONE DAY it MIGHT be a problem....To me I don't understand the purpose of it. Also, some people say it removes 25% of highly sensitive skin, so it also takes away ptential sexual pleasure, etc etc.

I know this has been a long standing religious tradition for some 'cutting' the covenant. However, there is a LOT of really barbaric stuff in the old testament, and we're better off having left it behind, maybe this is one of those things that western culture should wake up and realize is barbaric and uneccesary...

What are your thoughts?

dm24angel Posted: May 10, 2005 06:30 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

First off topic-flame me all you like- some of you are so hypocriticial its crazy....even when some posts agree with you , you find a way to turn it around, for nothing less then when reading the posts to argue with someone else.

Everyone is entitled to their Opinion....

Mine- SINCE I was asked with this thread- is that I WILL circumcise my son(s)...NOT for relgious purposes, but for hygenie and VANITY purposes.

I do know men who have had it and have not. The ones who didnt all wished they had, they were picked on etc, and felt bad about themselves. I think I would be a better mom to do this for them, then piercing their ears for VANITY purposes, but I agree with Jenn that its very similiar, and Im surprised the closed minded ones dont see that.

Its not an arm being removed for Gods sake.

For those who have an honest, intelligent opinion, I agree with the pros and the cons listed, and respect you.

For those who seemed to jump on Jenn for her honest , maybe loud opinion..grow up..what do you care what SHE does. Why is it when someone truly believes like she does in what she says, no-one likes it?

I wish some people wouldnt post their opinion , if they think they are right and everyone else is wrong, it takes away from a really great debate/thread that could have enlightened or interested many.

marymoon Posted: May 10, 2005 07:03 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

It just seems like you're saying I'm not allowd to be agsint circumcison if I'm for ear piercing...that's what it seemed like. It seems like people on both sides of this debate are pointing fingers and saying it's something it's noit. I already said 100 times that I respect your opinion and that it's a personal choice but that for ME I was not convinced. I don't care what you do with your sons. I am the first person to say that everyone has to do what's right for them, and not listen to what everyone else thinks is right.

Maybe I just took you the wrong way, if so, I'm sorry

marymoon Posted: May 10, 2005 07:06 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Also I don't think I was being closed minded at all, if donna was referring to me. i specifically asked for opinions because I really do want to understand the other POV. I never tried to say anyone was wrong for eithe circumcising or nto circumcising a child. It's personal choice.

ETA: also I never called you a hypocrite..I just want to be clear on that

jaclyncalderon Posted: May 10, 2005 07:25 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Just throwing this out there but people keep calling a circumcison an elective surgery...I hardly consider cutting off skin surgery...obviously I have never had a circumcison but the fact that a rabbi can do it in a temple without any need for a hospital - medical assistance , etc... makes it something that is NOT a surgery - just like ear piercing is not a surgery because you can get it done in the mall

RedHead Posted: May 10, 2005 07:37 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by marymoon

It just seems like you're saying I'm not allowd to be agsint circumcison if I'm for ear piercing...that's what it seemed like. It seems like people on both sides of this debate are pointing fingers and saying it's something it's noit. I already said 100 times that I respect your opinion and that it's a personal choice but that for ME I was not convinced. I don't care what you do with your sons. I am the first person to say that everyone has to do what's right for them, and not listen to what everyone else thinks is right.

Maybe I just took you the wrong way, if so, I'm sorry

excuse me Mary...but i never came CLOSE to being like that...
I brought up an interesting angle....
I was NEVER RUDE NOR was i calling anyone names on here...
I ALSO repsect eveyones opinions...

a few people had opposing views on this thread...some even called people names like close minded...I am not even pushing my opinoin on ANYONE HERE...Nor did i act DISRESPECTFUL...I would LIKE YOU TO SHOW ME WHERE THAT HAPPENED

WHY is it that I get the lecture mary?

RedHead Posted: May 10, 2005 07:38 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by marymoon

Also I don't think I was being closed minded at all, if donna was referring to me. i specifically asked for opinions because I really do want to understand the other POV. I never tried to say anyone was wrong for eithe circumcising or nto circumcising a child. It's personal choice.

ETA: also I never called you a hypocrite..I just want to be clear on that

MAYBE she is talking about the person who called those who are FOR CIRCUMCISION CLOSEMINDED?????

You are taking things quite personally mary

ETA...you may not have called me a hypocrite but YOU were one....Yelling at me about bringing up ears...when you had talked about WEBBED FEET AND NOSES....

THAT WAS HYPOCRITICAL OF YOU!

usuk2004 Posted: May 11, 2005 05:30 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by RedHead

MAYBE she is talking about the person who called those who are FOR CIRCUMCISION CLOSEMINDED?????

You are taking things quite personally mary

ETA...you may not have called me a hypocrite but YOU were one....Yelling at me about bringing up ears...when you had talked about WEBBED FEET AND NOSES....

THAT WAS HYPOCRITICAL OF YOU!

I really don't want to have anything more to do with this thread, but feel I need to mention that it was me who brought up webbed feet...and also me that said we were veering off topic into a discussion as to when we all had our ears pierced.

RedHead Posted: May 11, 2005 06:56 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by usuk2004

Posted by RedHead

MAYBE she is talking about the person who called those who are FOR CIRCUMCISION CLOSEMINDED?????

You are taking things quite personally mary

ETA...you may not have called me a hypocrite but YOU were one....Yelling at me about bringing up ears...when you had talked about WEBBED FEET AND NOSES....

THAT WAS HYPOCRITICAL OF YOU!

I really don't want to have anything more to do with this thread, but feel I need to mention that it was me who brought up webbed feet...and also me that said we were veering off topic into a discussion as to when we all had our ears pierced.

i am aware of that..AND it was ok to talk about the webb feet..and noses but when i had a point about pierced wars ALL OF A SUDDEN we are off topic. AND mary used your 'off topic' mention to lecture me...which i think was hyporcritical and unfair since OTHERS, like yourself HAD brought other things into this topic.

WHY IS IT I who gets the rant?

WHy is it that once we got to ear piercing is when we were off topic?

adioguardi Posted: May 11, 2005 09:59 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

I had my son circumsized the day after he was born. My OB/GYN did it - it was quick and easy but his little weewee was red as a cherry, poor baby. We decided on it because my husband (at that time), was not circumsized and hated the way it looked.

LIBrideinBWI Posted: May 11, 2005 11:25 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by dm24angel

For those who seemed to jump on Jenn for her honest , maybe loud opinion..grow up..what do you care what SHE does. Why is it when someone truly believes like she does in what she says, no-one likes it?

I wish some people wouldnt post their opinion , if they think they are right and everyone else is wrong, it takes away from a really great debate/thread that could have enlightened or interested many.

JMHO - I think that the problem here might be that Jenn's presentation tends to ruffle feathers. What I mean is that by using UPPERCASE usually represents 'yelling'.

When I first joined this site - I truly thought that Jenn was a sarcastic b-tch because of the way her posts come across with all the capitalizations. Of course, not knowing Jenn personally, that's a harsh judgement to make and I now understand that her use of uppercase is just different from mine.

For example: Mary, why do you think I'm hyprocritical? comes across a hell of alot less antagonistic than:
MARY, why do YOU think I'M HYPOCRITICAL?

Quite possibly, people may have misinterpreted the posts. We all need to remember that conveying 'feeling' through written words is very difficult........

usuk2004 Posted: May 11, 2005 11:38 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by RedHead

Posted by usuk2004

Posted by RedHead

MAYBE she is talking about the person who called those who are FOR CIRCUMCISION CLOSEMINDED?????

You are taking things quite personally mary

ETA...you may not have called me a hypocrite but YOU were one....Yelling at me about bringing up ears...when you had talked about WEBBED FEET AND NOSES....

THAT WAS HYPOCRITICAL OF YOU!

I really don't want to have anything more to do with this thread, but feel I need to mention that it was me who brought up webbed feet...and also me that said we were veering off topic into a discussion as to when we all had our ears pierced.

i am aware of that..AND it was ok to talk about the webb feet..and noses but when i had a point about pierced wars ALL OF A SUDDEN we are off topic. AND mary used your 'off topic' mention to lecture me...which i think was hyporcritical and unfair since OTHERS, like yourself HAD brought other things into this topic.

WHY IS IT I who gets the rant?

WHy is it that once we got to ear piercing is when we were off topic?

I don't think I've ever ranted on LIW the whole time I've been on...

RedHead Posted: May 11, 2005 11:40 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by usuk2004

I don't think I've ever ranted on LIW the whole time I've been on...

i didn't say you did....MARYMOON did

RedHead Posted: May 11, 2005 11:49 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by LIBrideinBWI

JMHO - I think that the problem here might be that Jenn's presentation tends to ruffle feathers. What I mean is that by using UPPERCASE usually represents 'yelling'.

When I first joined this site - I truly thought that Jenn was a sarcastic b-tch because of the way her posts come across with all the capitalizations. Of course, not knowing Jenn personally, that's a harsh judgement to make and I now understand that her use of uppercase is just different from mine.

For example: Mary, why do you think I'm hyprocritical? comes across a hell of alot less antagonistic than:
MARY, why do YOU think I'M HYPOCRITICAL?

Quite possibly, people may have misinterpreted the posts. We all need to remember that conveying 'feeling' through written words is very difficult........

understand what you are saying but i don't think i should beheld accountable for CAPTS on this thread...

other people on this thread used caps...but only my posts are being analyzed here...only my posts are being crutinized for content...anfd that is quite unfair IMO.

BUT yes i use the caps to accentuate words not necessarily yell...

BUT in the last posts yes i was yelling. Because it was ranted by marymoon to me about the use of ear piercing as a example on this thread...which imo is completely hypocritical because not only did she herself talk about other issues in her posts but so did others...

So mary got on the igh horse and yelled at ME. So after that...yes that was when i was using CAPS to yell....Because what she was saying was wrong, hypocritical and a waste of time.

I looked back on my posts on this thread and see how some later ones could have been interpreted as yelling and i apologize for that...BUT i will not apologize for bringing up a clear example of the ear piercing which imo was relevant to this thread. Just like some thought what they were saying were relevant...

AND the fact that mary has chosen to point out my posts is a completely UNFAIR

StayandJohn Posted: May 11, 2005 12:39 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

I had my son circumsised a day after he was born, he cried he got over it. A little A & D ointment was all it needed to be healed, took maybe 3-4 days until it was better.

In all honesty, your son isnt going to remember the pain, its not going to be a lifetime traumtizing event.

BMD'sPeanut Posted: May 11, 2005 01:05 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

I didn't read all the back and forth on here, so my statement may have already been addressed...But I just wanted to say that I had no idea that you could be circumsized after infancy??? I thought I heard once that the pain of doing that beyond infancy is sooo severe that the person would be traumatized....(Which is also why they do it so young...??)

AJsMommy122 Posted: May 11, 2005 09:06 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

My dh is old school Italian and he is not circumcised and neither is ANY male in his family.
At first I want our son to be circumcised but after reading up on it and talking with dh ALOT about the issue we decided not to do it.

I think it is a personal choice. I notice most people will do whatever their husband is as so they do not look 'different' when being potty trained and having to explain why their penis looks different from dads.

june262004 Posted: May 11, 2005 10:59 PM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by Soon2bMsZ

My dh is old school Italian and he is not circumcised and neither is ANY male in his family.
At first I want our son to be circumcised but after reading up on it and talking with dh ALOT about the issue we decided not to do it.

I think it is a personal choice. I notice most people will do whatever their husband is as so they do not look 'different' when being potty trained and having to explain why their penis looks different from dads.

I just have a question though... NO FLAMES HERE.. But when potty training does you hubby actually show your son his thingy?

jaclyncalderon Posted: May 12, 2005 06:47 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by june262004

Posted by Soon2bMsZ

My dh is old school Italian and he is not circumcised and neither is ANY male in his family.
At first I want our son to be circumcised but after reading up on it and talking with dh ALOT about the issue we decided not to do it.

I think it is a personal choice. I notice most people will do whatever their husband is as so they do not look 'different' when being potty trained and having to explain why their penis looks different from dads.

I just have a question though... NO FLAMES HERE.. But when potty training does you hubby actually show your son his thingy?

Thank you...that was the reason I posted a couple of pages ago about why everyone says the role model thing I mean how many people are showing there 'thingys' - I'm really not trying to be nasty I justwas surprised when people stated that as a reason

Aga Posted: May 12, 2005 09:44 AM

Re: Kind of a parenting questions, but CIRCUMCISON

Posted by usuk2004

Circumcision is largely an American thing. My DH and most Europeans are not. He's never had any hygeine problems - I mean really it requires minimal extra effort, and one would think men would be concerned about cleanliness whether they were circumsized or not.

true, I was born and raised in Poland and I have never heard about circumcision until I came to the United States....

honestly, whether the penis is circumcised or not it is still not a pretty sight