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NWR: Insane realization...

mattandjess2013 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by KristyANDMatt224
New teachers are having problems due to the economy. It's worth noting this entire conversation I've been talking teachers in general and repeatedly mention I have plenty of personal friends who can't get a job due to the layoffs etc.

Also - just as a stat, as of 2010 - NY is among highest paying for teachers, and 38th in graduation rate. We are also among the top 5 in per pupil spending.

Notice that
- among highest for teacher salary
- top 5 in per pupil spending (I think we are #1)
- 38th in graduation rate.

Why? There's obviously a problem.


Ok..let's get some facts straight here with some brutal honesty

Nassau county is One if the counties in our country with the highest taxes. my taxes are absolutely crazy in town of Hempstead. FH and I chose a district that is in a middle class neighborhood but has pretty decent state scores. Education for our (maybe) children is super important. Now, the taxes we pay aren't just to support this district, but we are paying for the lower functioning schools that are in areas of need, such as Hempstead, Uniondale, Roosevelt, etc. These schools receive so much government funding, which often includes, free food, free tutoring, free housing. With that being said, Nassau taxes are among the highest because overall the cost of living is much greater here. Yes, with my degree, I'd make much less in, say, Kentucky. But my mortgage would be a quarter of what it is here. It is all relative to the cost of living
Now, I am sure your statistics are accurate but are you realizing that it is New York State as a whole?? Brooklyn vs Hamptons vs Binghamton vs Upper East Side. Although areas like Uniondale aren't as successful in academics, teachers make more than surrounding areas because of all the government funding for the free things those kids are given. Therefore, there are incentives for teachers to work in low income areas, with minority socioeconomic backgrounds. If teachers are given a choice to work in Garden City or right down the road to Hempstead, what would they choose? That's why there needs to be a balance.
Top in per pupil spending; okay follow me here. I work in South Bronx. The state average for IEPs in a school is 8-10%. (IEPs are individualized education plans. Students who are classified with having a disability receive this for modified accommodations and services). Many schools in my home neighborhood have below 5% IEP rates. The school I work in, OVER 30%!!! Guess what? My school is going to get a lot more funding to provide for these students than, say, Syosset. And I sure as he'll don't make what those teachers make. Why do my kids have more IEPs? Because some of them have emotional disturbance, mental retardation or developmental disorders because of drugs, alcohol, and other forms of abuse. Generally the disorders we see here, you will find very few and far between in an affluent Long Island school district. My school is 95+% free lunch. They get free breakfast as well. There is social security, WIC, welfare, section 8 housing, food stamps. There is very few incentives for the people in that community to work on their own. Who pays for that? I do. Teachers do. In fact EVERY tax payer does. Stop complaining you pay my salary. Complain about paying for the people who DON'T give back to their community. This goes along with the poor graduation rate. Education is not valued in that neighborhood. We are so proud of any 8th grader who chooses to go to high school, because guess what sister-they often drop out early. But yes, you're right. That's MY fault that they don't have family encouragement to better themselves.
I 100% agree that salaries and tenure should be based upon performance. I am just waiting for a fair evaluation to be given. City has not had a contract since May 2006. 6 years. So don't tell me that we are getting automatic raises. My school was a pilot school for the new evaluations last year. I scored an 84. Not bad. But here is why I automatically lost points. Our test scores are low (I wasn't in a testing grade, so too bad for me). Our attendance and tardiness is poor. (I'm sorry! I forgot to pick up my 31 kids on my way to work so they can get their free breakfast too because nobody at home was able to wake themselves up. My bad!). I have automatic points against me for things that are out of my control. If I taught the same grade, same curricula, in a neighborhood, such as Flushing. I probably would have had a 94. Teachers in low performing schools don't have a shot at merit raises because of the backgrounds of my kids. Let's not forget about the English Language Learners. Our school is at least 40% ELL. They take the same state test as everyone else, no accommodations. Yea, they might just fail that. Does this at all help you understand why NYS scores are not it's best? Instead of pointing your finger at teachers like me, maybe we should look at society as a whole. My students are from homeless shelters, single parent families where 6 people are living in a 2 bedroom apt or other outside factors. My next door neighbor's daughter comes home and worries about that 75 she got on a spelling test. My students go home and worry about how they will find dinner, hiding belongings in a shelter, staying low because they think they heard a gun shot, wondering if the police will wake them up again and keep them up all night. So yea, homework falls by the wayside if nobody at home is there to help- if they can even speak English.
Never once have I complained about my salary. I just hate when I am told I am overpaid bc of statistics that someone didn't think about but want to throw out there. I worked in Rockville Centre for 2 years. I will never go back to an area like that. I have been in the South Bronx for 5 years. I pay $13 a day in tolls. I am out of my house for a minimum of 11 hours daily for work. I constantly hear people rip us apart because we are glorified babysitters. But you know what? I show up every day with a smile on my face and a nurturing heart. Because no matter what is wrong in my life, I will NEVER truly know the lives that my students have. I may be the only constant in some of their lives. I've been cursed at, kicked, threatened. But you know what? Those are the kids who comes to me the following year to hang out in my room or ask for lunch time together bc they know I loved them all along. No matter what I do or how much love I give I can not control where they go home to. No matter how many changed students I see, in the end they may be a product of their society. But as far as many of you are concerned, they are just a nuisance to your pocket. Your $ goes to the government. The government gives it out like free candy to these areas. But it's the teachers fault right?


Shanti12 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Thanks Kristy, couldn't have said it any better!
Continuing ed most definitely comes out of teachers' pockets in any school district, so yeah I think a raise is OK.
It's so backwards...
Eunified Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Kristy, that was inspiring! Xoxox

staceface323 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by KristyANDMatt224

PS. I have a masters plus 30. That is top pay in the salary. Yet I continue to pay for schooling and workshops on my own, with no raise coming t me, because I WANT to. Some people have intrinsic values and desires that don't stem for money.

My first year, I spent nearly $5,000 for my classroom. Behavior plans, extra resources or incentives I started didn't pan out so I changed my method and that cost time and money.

My second year was only about $3,000. Luckily the next 2 years I co-taught so we shared the expenses. It was still over $1,500 each though.

And we don't have a 'teacher's choice' or reimbursement program either, so don't worry. My classroom didn't come out of tax money

And just to throw in there. The money given to families in my work neighborhood is rarely spent on school supplies. As parents text on their newest iPhones, while holding coach purses tell me they can't afford supplies, I sigh and say 'ok'. Guess who buys notebooks, pencils, glue, crayons etc for at least 15 kids each year? Teachers do.
O and when next winter rolls around, and I pick up those jackets, sweatshirts or shoes that some kids lack, I will be sure to hit up all of you 'taxpayers'.

I don't question other people's jobs and would never degrade anyone. Don't question my abilities and what I produce with my students. They need to stop being looked at as dollar signs or test scores and instead, looked at as children

Stop looking at education as a business. We are not a business. The man on the corner who sells fruit, does well. He provides for his family, the neighborhood loves him. But if receives a bad bunch of bananas one day, he is going to send them back. We can't do that. We can't 'send back' our children. Poor, disabled, abused, unstable - all are welcome with open arms. We don't send anything back. We make them stronger and better


Kristy I was reading through all of this and wondering when someone was going to mention the hardships of a nyc teacher (I would have if u had not). I bust my *** on a daily basis and my saoary does not show for it. But I love my job and wouldnt trade it for the world even though it has drastically changed over the last 8 years and we are now observed 8 times a year. I get great vacation time, but who can afford to go away when everyone has a break and prices are insane. I am getting married in a beautiful place that i can only afford cause its off peak season and a Friday night. Thank u to Kristy and all you other ladies for sticking up for teachers, it may appear to some as a job with glorified benefits, but we pay for them...
Butterflyfaye Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by KristyANDMatt224




New teachers are having problems due to the economy. It's worth noting this entire conversation I've been talking teachers in general and repeatedly mention I have plenty of personal friends who can't get a job due to the layoffs etc.

Also - just as a stat, as of 2010 - NY is among highest paying for teachers, and 38th in graduation rate. We are also among the top 5 in per pupil spending.

Notice that
- among highest for teacher salary
- top 5 in per pupil spending (I think we are #1)
- 38th in graduation rate.

Why? There's obviously a problem.


Ok..let's get some facts straight here with some brutal honesty

Nassau county is One if the counties in our country with the highest taxes. my taxes are absolutely crazy in town of Hempstead. FH and I chose a district that is in a middle class neighborhood but has pretty decent state scores. Education for our (maybe) children is super important. Now, the taxes we pay aren't just to support this district, but we are paying for the lower functioning schools that are in areas of need, such as Hempstead, Uniondale, Roosevelt, etc. These schools receive so much government funding, which often includes, free food, free tutoring, free housing. With that being said, Nassau taxes are among the highest because overall the cost of living is much greater here. Yes, with my degree, I'd make much less in, say, Kentucky. But my mortgage would be a quarter of what it is here. It is all relative to the cost of living
Now, I am sure your statistics are accurate but are you realizing that it is New York State as a whole?? Brooklyn vs Hamptons vs Binghamton vs Upper East Side. Although areas like Uniondale aren't as successful in academics, teachers make more than surrounding areas because of all the government funding for the free things those kids are given. Therefore, there are incentives for teachers to work in low income areas, with minority socioeconomic backgrounds. If teachers are given a choice to work in Garden City or right down the road to Hempstead, what would they choose? That's why there needs to be a balance.
Top in per pupil spending; okay follow me here. I work in South Bronx. The state average for IEPs in a school is 8-10%. (IEPs are individualized education plans. Students who are classified with having a disability receive this for modified accommodations and services). Many schools in my home neighborhood have below 5% IEP rates. The school I work in, OVER 30%!!! Guess what? My school is going to get a lot more funding to provide for these students than, say, Syosset. And I sure as he'll don't make what those teachers make. Why do my kids have more IEPs? Because some of them have emotional disturbance, mental retardation or developmental disorders because of drugs, alcohol, and other forms of abuse. Generally the disorders we see here, you will find very few and far between in an affluent Long Island school district. My school is 95+% free lunch. They get free breakfast as well. There is social security, WIC, welfare, section 8 housing, food stamps. There is very few incentives for the people in that community to work on their own. Who pays for that? I do. Teachers do. In fact EVERY tax payer does. Stop complaining you pay my salary. Complain about paying for the people who DON'T give back to their community. This goes along with the poor graduation rate. Education is not valued in that neighborhood. We are so proud of any 8th grader who chooses to go to high school, because guess what sister-they often drop out early. But yes, you're right. That's MY fault that they don't have family encouragement to better themselves.
I 100% agree that salaries and tenure should be based upon performance. I am just waiting for a fair evaluation to be given. City has not had a contract since May 2006. 6 years. So don't tell me that we are getting automatic raises. My school was a pilot school for the new evaluations last year. I scored an 84. Not bad. But here is why I automatically lost points. Our test scores are low (I wasn't in a testing grade, so too bad for me). Our attendance and tardiness is poor. (I'm sorry! I forgot to pick up my 31 kids on my way to work so they can get their free breakfast too because nobody at home was able to wake themselves up. My bad!). I have automatic points against me for things that are out of my control. If I taught the same grade, same curricula, in a neighborhood, such as Flushing. I probably would have had a 94. Teachers in low performing schools don't have a shot at merit raises because of the backgrounds of my kids. Let's not forget about the English Language Learners. Our school is at least 40% ELL. They take the same state test as everyone else, no accommodations. Yea, they might just fail that. Does this at all help you understand why NYS scores are not it's best? Instead of pointing your finger at teachers like me, maybe we should look at society as a whole. My students are from homeless shelters, single parent families where 6 people are living in a 2 bedroom apt or other outside factors. My next door neighbor's daughter comes home and worries about that 75 she got on a spelling test. My students go home and worry about how they will find dinner, hiding belongings in a shelter, staying low because they think they heard a gun shot, wondering if the police will wake them up again and keep them up all night. So yea, homework falls by the wayside if nobody at home is there to help- if they can even speak English.
Never once have I complained about my salary. I just hate when I am told I am overpaid bc of statistics that someone didn't think about but want to throw out there. I worked in Rockville Centre for 2 years. I will never go back to an area like that. I have been in the South Bronx for 5 years. I pay $13 a day in tolls. I am out of my house for a minimum of 11 hours daily for work. I constantly hear people rip us apart because we are glorified babysitters. But you know what? I show up every day with a smile on my face and a nurturing heart. Because no matter what is wrong in my life, I will NEVER truly know the lives that my students have. I may be the only constant in some of their lives. I've been cursed at, kicked, threatened. But you know what? Those are the kids who comes to me the following year to hang out in my room or ask for lunch time together bc they know I loved them all along. No matter what I do or how much love I give I can not control where they go home to. No matter how many changed students I see, in the end they may be a product of their society. But as far as many of you are concerned, they are just a nuisance to your pocket. Your $ goes to the government. The government gives it out like free candy to these areas. But it's the teachers fault right?


Thank you for highlighting so many things that are wrong. In many ways, you make my point for me.

I'm sorry you haven't had a contract in 6 years. That is unfair. Ultimately though, the way public employees are evaluated, paid and benefits must be revamped - I'm taking about admins with pensions above $300K.

Also the welfare systems. But that hasn't been the topic of conversation.

So yes.. you in so many ways just made my points.

BTW _ I never said you didn't like your job. So stop taking things personally.
Butterflyfaye Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...


Education is definitely a business. Check out the politics and money that goes into various areas...

See -

Pre-Schools, After-school care, the money dumped into sports programs to hope to attract college scouts, private schools, parochial schools, prep schools, colleges and universities. Also SAT classes and learning centers.

Education is a business were private competes with public.

Anyone who thinks otherwise has blinders on.
Butterflyfaye Posted:

reponses

Let's break down the facts from the heart-felt strings here.... because there's definitely mixing of the two..

Posted by KristyANDMatt224
Nassau county is One if the counties in our country with the highest taxes. my taxes are absolutely crazy in town of Hempstead. FH and I chose a district that is in a middle class neighborhood but has pretty decent state scores. Education for our (maybe) children is super important. Now, the taxes we pay aren't just to support this district, but we are paying for the lower functioning schools that are in areas of need, such as Hempstead, Uniondale, Roosevelt, etc. These schools receive so much government funding, which often includes, free food, free tutoring, free housing. With that being said, Nassau taxes are among the highest because overall the cost of living is much greater here. Yes, with my degree, I'd make much less in, say, Kentucky. But my mortgage would be a quarter of what it is here. It is all relative to the cost of living


About 75 percent of your property taxes goes DIRECTLY to your school district. Much smaller percentages go to Suffolk County and/or Nassau County, then New York State and Fed.

Pull out your bill this year and give it a look over. So the largest cut of your taxes DOES NOT go directly to other school districts.


Posted by KristyANDMatt224
Now, I am sure your statistics are accurate but are you realizing that it is New York State as a whole?? Brooklyn vs Hamptons vs Binghamton vs Upper East Side. Although areas like Uniondale aren't as successful in academics, teachers make more than surrounding areas because of all the government funding for the free things those kids are given. Therefore, there are incentives for teachers to work in low income areas, with minority socioeconomic backgrounds. If teachers are given a choice to work in Garden City or right down the road to Hempstead, what would they choose? That's why there needs to be a balance.
Top in per pupil spending; okay follow me here.


The stat for rank in per pupil spending comes directly from Nassau-Suffolk County Superintendents Association. They admit they are top in spending.

Yes- the rankings are already roughly balanced per cost of living. They used a formula to do this - no I don't have it on hand.


Posted by KristyANDMatt224
I work in South Bronx. The state average for IEPs in a school is 8-10%. (IEPs are individualized education plans. Students who are classified with having a disability receive this for modified accommodations and services). Many schools in my home neighborhood have below 5% IEP rates. The school I work in, OVER 30%!!! Guess what? My school is going to get a lot more funding to provide for these students than, say, Syosset. And I sure as he'll don't make what those teachers make. Why do my kids have more IEPs? Because some of them have emotional disturbance, mental retardation or developmental disorders because of drugs, alcohol, and other forms of abuse. Generally the disorders we see here, you will find very few and far between in an affluent Long Island school district. My school is 95+% free lunch. They get free breakfast as well. There is social security, WIC, welfare, section 8 housing, food stamps. There is very few incentives for the people in that community to work on their own. Who pays for that? I do. Teachers do. In fact EVERY tax payer does.


This is a sad fact, and yes I know what IEPS are as well as how they are reviewed, etc. I am very familiar with the process.

Either way - You fail to show how (a) This ties to the fact that teachers are public employees, so the public does feel they have the right to scrutinze salaries they pay for (b) My original point of the fact that teaches should have merit-based raises.

Special education is paid for in part by state taxes, which is substantialy lower than your school district taxes and so is the free lunch program.

So... what you don't realize is that school taxes are still SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER than the government taxes that provide funding for special education, free lunch programs, welfare, etc. Huh, why?

Teachers salaries and benefits are 60-70 percent of the school's budget. Not the goverment programs, not IEP, not special education measures.


Posted by KristyANDMatt224
Stop complaining you pay my salary. Complain about paying for the people who DON'T give back to their community. This goes along with the poor graduation rate. Education is not valued in that neighborhood. We are so proud of any 8th grader who chooses to go to high school, because guess what sister-they often drop out early. But yes, you're right. That's MY fault that they don't have family encouragement to better themselves.


I never said I didn't have a problem with the welfare system, but that hasn't been the topic of conversation. I'm sticking to topic.


Posted by KristyANDMatt224
I 100% agree that salaries and tenure should be based upon performance. I am just waiting for a fair evaluation to be given. City has not had a contract since May 2006. 6 years. So don't tell me that we are getting automatic raises. [/Quote]

I'm sorry, as noted, that's not fair to you. But then you admit - you agree with my primary point - teacher raises should be based on merit, not automatic simply for working.

Great I'm glad we agree one 1 of my two main points.



Posted by KristyANDMatt224
My school was a pilot school for the new evaluations last year. I scored an 84. Not bad. But here is why I automatically lost points. Our test scores are low (I wasn't in a testing grade, so too bad for me). Our attendance and tardiness is poor. (I'm sorry! I forgot to pick up my 31 kids on my way to work so they can get their free breakfast too because nobody at home was able to wake themselves up. My bad!). I have automatic points against me for things that are out of my control. If I taught the same grade, same curricula, in a neighborhood, such as Flushing. I probably would have had a 94. Teachers in low performing schools don't have a shot at merit raises because of the backgrounds of my kids. Let's not forget about the English Language Learners. Our school is at least 40% ELL. They take the same state test as everyone else, no accommodations. Yea, they might just fail that. Does this at all help you understand why NYS scores are not it's best? Instead of pointing your finger at teachers like me, maybe we should look at society as a whole. My students are from homeless shelters, single parent families where 6 people are living in a 2 bedroom apt or other outside factors. My next door neighbor's daughter comes home and worries about that 75 she got on a spelling test. My students go home and worry about how they will find dinner, hiding belongings in a shelter, staying low because they think they heard a gun shot, wondering if the police will wake them up again and keep them up all night. So yea, homework falls by the wayside if nobody at home is there to help- if they can even speak English.


I agree with you due to living conditions, special education, English language and other factors test scores are not alone fair. But let's face it - they have to be taken into some small consideration.

Attendance and homework is ridiculous.

Regardless see above - we agree, raises should be merit based. Great we agree.


Posted by KristyANDMatt224
Never once have I complained about my salary. I just hate when I am told I am overpaid bc of statistics that someone didn't think about but want to throw out there.


Then funny - read my posts back to the beginning, they have NEVER been director at you.

I get upset at teachers who ***** repeatedly they are underpaid, particular those in management levels when they have to realize they have 2-3x the average salary of their area, and close to 1.5-2x others with the same education.

I know that's your chosen field - we all knew the upsides and downsides when we chose them. We have the right to switch them.

People need to stop making out like teachers don't make a decent salary. I know SOOOO many people, especially in the current economy, who would LOVE a teacher's salary and have at least an equivalent education.

and let's face it..

To evaluate jobs fairly

You have to consider base pay and benefits such as health care, 401K, pension, days off as a factor.

Teachers - even when comparing equivalent education in other professions - don't have it the worst. I wish they would stop acting like they do.

That's been my primary point. There are so many other careers that require as much education if not more, and get so much less - because let's face it.

Most public employees have it much better than private employees.

Private parochial school teachers have made that clear on this thread.
mattandjess2013 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by Butterflyfaye

Pre-Schools, After-school care, the money dumped into sports programs to hope to attract college scouts, private schools, parochial schools, prep schools, colleges and universities. Also SAT classes and learning centers.


I'm going to stop you RIGHT there. Don't you DARE put parochial schools in there as a business. YES, people pay to send their children there. BUT we do not get funding from anyone else, unless it's through grants or private donations. WHICH IS WHY we don't have the resources public schools have. People send their children to parochial school for several reasons, whether it's for religion, not liking the public school in their area, etc. Also keep in mind, parochial school and private school are two VERY different things.

Pre-school and after-school programs? AGAIN, NOT FUNDED by tax payers - at least not where I am. A person can also send their child to a babysitter instead of a program through the school.

Yes, SAT classes and learning centers are businesses. And is there something wrong with that? I don't think so.

I don't care who you are, what you do, what your opinions are - tax payer or not you have no right to question anyone's salary. How would you like it if someone came into your job and said 'oh you make too much'? It's not someone's place AT ALL especially when you have no idea what goes into a person's job.

Not a single teacher on here has complained about their salary, and I think that, based on the comments you have received, you get that it isn't a top priority for us. We do what we do because we love it. And if you say something negative about it, what do you expect?

And you know so many people that would love a teacher's salary? Ok, take mine and try to live on Long Island. Or better yet - go to school, get your degree, and ATTEMPT to find a job on LI.
KristyANDMatt224 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by mattandjess2013

Posted by Butterflyfaye

Pre-Schools, After-school care, the money dumped into sports programs to hope to attract college scouts, private schools, parochial schools, prep schools, colleges and universities. Also SAT classes and learning centers.


I'm going to stop you RIGHT there. Don't you DARE put parochial schools in there as a business. YES, people pay to send their children there. BUT we do not get funding from anyone else, unless it's through grants or private donations. WHICH IS WHY we don't have the resources public schools have. People send their children to parochial school for several reasons, whether it's for religion, not liking the public school in their area, etc. Also keep in mind, parochial school and private school are two VERY different things.

Pre-school and after-school programs? AGAIN, NOT FUNDED by tax payers - at least not where I am. A person can also send their child to a babysitter instead of a program through the school.

Yes, SAT classes and learning centers are businesses. And is there something wrong with that? I don't think so.

I don't care who you are, what you do, what your opinions are - tax payer or not you have no right to question anyone's salary. How would you like it if someone came into your job and said 'oh you make too much'? It's not someone's place AT ALL especially when you have no idea what goes into a person's job.

Not a single teacher on here has complained about their salary, and I think that, based on the comments you have received, you get that it isn't a top priority for us. We do what we do because we love it. And if you say something negative about it, what do you expect?

And you know so many people that would love a teacher's salary? Ok, take mine and try to live on Long Island. Or better yet - go to school, get your degree, and ATTEMPT to find a job on LI.



Yh

thank you for ressponding to this jess. Bc i am effin done with this convo.
mattandjess2013 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Lol it's ok Kristy. I'm done with it too, but there are certain things I just can't let go. Bad habit, I know
Pretty_In_Pink Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by teacherteacher

Posted by Pretty_In_Pink

there are sooo many professions that are under paid. ugh! Don't get me started!


You're exactly right.

Because of the way the economy is, you could throw a rock and hit ten people who work extremely hard for very little takeaway.

The more we argue about it, the more we forget that it takes every single one of the possible professions in order to have a society that can actually function. Whether we're teachers & nurses or doctors & lawyers, or even volunteers, we deserve respect but we have to give it as well.



I agree!!!

Butterflyfaye Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by mattandjess2013

Posted by Butterflyfaye

Pre-Schools, After-school care, the money dumped into sports programs to hope to attract college scouts, private schools, parochial schools, prep schools, colleges and universities. Also SAT classes and learning centers.


I'm going to stop you RIGHT there. Don't you DARE put parochial schools in there as a business. YES, people pay to send their children there. BUT we do not get funding from anyone else, unless it's through grants or private donations. WHICH IS WHY we don't have the resources public schools have. People send their children to parochial school for several reasons, whether it's for religion, not liking the public school in their area, etc. Also keep in mind, parochial school and private school are two VERY different things.

Pre-school and after-school programs? AGAIN, NOT FUNDED by tax payers - at least not where I am. A person can also send their child to a babysitter instead of a program through the school.

Yes, SAT classes and learning centers are businesses. And is there something wrong with that? I don't think so.

I don't care who you are, what you do, what your opinions are - tax payer or not you have no right to question anyone's salary. How would you like it if someone came into your job and said 'oh you make too much'? It's not someone's place AT ALL especially when you have no idea what goes into a person's job.

Not a single teacher on here has complained about their salary, and I think that, based on the comments you have received, you get that it isn't a top priority for us. We do what we do because we love it. And if you say something negative about it, what do you expect?

And you know so many people that would love a teacher's salary? Ok, take mine and try to live on Long Island. Or better yet - go to school, get your degree, and ATTEMPT to find a job on LI.


There are hundreds of private pre-school and after-school centers that are businesses. I never ever said anything was upset about that. Just pointing it out - as people said education isn't a business.

I've never questioned salary of anyone. In fact - I've never said teachers are overpaid. I dare you to find exactly where you think I said that.

I've never said anyone here didn't love what they did for a job.

I love my job, even thought I'll never make what a teacher makes - and I sure don't expect pension.

and Yes - given a 8 percent unemployment rate, i know lots of people who would be happy to be making $30,000 a year right now. Even if that's ridiculous for LI.

So you've unfairly attacked me on a personal basis because you are a teacher.

What I hate about teachers - thinking they are God's gift to society because they educate children. There are hundreds of critical jobs in society that we need people with the right personality, education to fill. All are crucial to have a functioning society.

For explaining the principal that because teachers are public servants in some sense - their jobs are publicly funded and they serve the public (children) many people feel right to know and criticize their salaries, as taxpayers DO in fact vote on it once a year - by voting on the school budget.

Public employees whose salaries are paid by collected taxes face scrutiny that private employees never will. Can't take the heat? work for a private company.

Also - let's face it, I think it's right Cuomo instituted yearly reviews for teachers. I don't have all the answers in hope, what system or what percentages are correct for the APPRs, but teachers and every single job out there - people should be held accountable.

So anyways -

those were my points from the beginning. I have dear friends who work as teachers, and I tutor in my spare time local neighborhood kids - for free.

but, go head - I'm a heartless taxpayer <3

I'll see if you teachers run me off the boards.


Butterflyfaye Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...


P.S. - one thing more for public School teachers to hate

Any person can find out your salary because you are a public employee. Administrators, principals, and deans are posted on seethroughny.com.

The teacher's STEP payment system can be obtained by FOILing - by anyone who is in that school district's taxpayer base.

mattandjess2013 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by Butterflyfaye
and Yes - given a 8 percent unemployment rate, i know lots of people who would be happy to be making $30,000 a year right now. Even if that's ridiculous for LI.

So you've unfairly attacked me on a personal basis because you are a teacher.

What I hate about teachers - thinking they are God's gift to society because they educate children. There are hundreds of critical jobs in society that we need people with the right personality, education to fill. All are crucial to have a functioning society.

For explaining the principal that because teachers are public servants in some sense - their jobs are publicly funded and they serve the public (children) many people feel right to know and criticize their salaries, as taxpayers DO in fact vote on it once a year - by voting on the school budget.

Public employees whose salaries are paid by collected taxes face scrutiny that private employees never will. Can't take the heat? work for a private company.

those were my points from the beginning. I have dear friends who work as teachers, and I tutor in my spare time local neighborhood kids - for free.

but, go head - I'm a heartless taxpayer <3

I'll see if you teachers run me off the boards.


This is where I have the biggest issue with you - you OBVIOUSLY have an issue with teachers. Bad experiences as a kid or something? (and yes that is a joke - not a nasty comment) NONE of us EVER said we are God's gift - and I don't believe any of us think this way. It's very nice that you tutor for free, but on my salary I can't afford to do that. I tutor at a much lower rate than what I could be getting paid, but I can't do it for free. Tutoring 2 kids a week pretty much pays for my gas money, that's about it.

Yes, I agree $30,000 a year is much better than being on unemployment, I should know since I was on it for a year. But it still isn't much in the grand scheme of things, especially on LI, which was my point.

I never 'unfairly attacked' you, nor have any of the other teachers on this board. I DO however, think that you think it's ok to state your opinion, but can't take the 'heat' (as you say) when the teachers respond. And on that topic, it's not about not being able to take the 'heat' - it's the fact that people believe they have the right to question what other people make in a year. I'm sorry, but I've never ONCE asked for someone's salary - public or private job. It's rude and in bad taste. They vote on the school budget every year - absolutely correct - and this is why children are suffering, because people don't want to spend the money in taxes. I get it - it sucks to pay them, but the people don't seem to realize what happens when they cut the budgets. Bigger classrooms, less extracurriculars, etc. They don't want to pay, but they will be the first to complain when their child has 30 other students in their class.

And again, no one ever said you were heartless. I may not agree with you and I may respond, but I, IN NO WAY, am trying to 'run you off the board'. I think every teacher on here will agree.
teacherteacher Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

As an undergrad, we were taught, as I believe most education majors are, that being a public servant means we *must* be able to deal with a transparent salary policy.

To tell us unnecessarily that salaries are public information inherently implies that you do think teachers are overpaid - why else advertise you can 'prove' what we make?
Butterflyfaye Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...


Actually - I was really fortunate to have quite a few amazing teachrs in my life, was a A+ student through college and my share of accolades. I didn't go into teaching mostly because I don't like the system of how things are handled, not that I don't love school.

I loved college - where you are free to study what interested you, learn through exploring new subjects.

I mean I hate to say it.. but my salary isn't far off the $30,000 mark. Especially not with all I pay out of pocket. I find time to tutor because it matters to the kids I've worked with over the years.

You are right - I do state my opinion, or reach out to promote debate. However, I do get indignant when people go after me personally - demanding to know my job and salary because I'm talking about the teaching profession in NY and the USA as a whole.

Not individual teachers, not individual school districts.

So yes - Looking for my job and salary to pull it apart, especially when I work in a public job - isn't worth it.

I've never said teacher's salaries are the key to lower taxes - although I do think some changes in that system need to be made.

it's clear schools need to cut costs and run more efficiently. School taxes can't keep skyrocketing. Teacher's salaries and benefits are 60-75% of an average school district's costs.

So clearly - if they need to cut costs and run more efficiently, It seems like staff salary and benefits will continue to be impacts.

That's just a fact of life. Don't shoot the messenger.

If school taxes don't come down on LI, I'll be out of here and others I know. It's a contributer to brain drain (the highly educated are leaving because they can't afford to buy homes, despite a decent salary). There are lots of nearby states with similar quality of education, and much lower costs of living and taxes.

Butterflyfaye Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by teacherteacher

As an undergrad, we were taught, as I believe most education majors are, that being a public servant means we *must* be able to deal with a transparent salary policy.

To tell us unnecessarily that salaries are public information inherently implies that you do think teachers are overpaid - why else advertise you can 'prove' what we make?
\\

Proving a point -

Teachers are public servants, to educate children and paid off taxes.
Ultimately, as a result, their salaries are public knowledge and transparent.
Because they are publicly funded, affected by budget votes each May.
As such, taxpayers - just like elected officials from the president of the US down to county legislators to teachers - feel they have a right to know the public servant's salary and criticize their job. Whether you feel that's right or wrong.

Care to fight whether a teacher is a public job - the salaries are available online. It's public knowledge? Why - it's a public job.

Private salaries aren't posted.
mattandjess2013 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by Butterflyfaye
Actually - I was really fortunate to have quite a few amazing teachrs in my life, was a A+ student through college and my share of accolades. I didn't go into teaching mostly because I don't like the system of how things are handled, not that I don't love school.

I loved college - where you are free to study what interested you, learn through exploring new subjects.

You are right - I do state my opinion, or reach out to promote debate. However, I do get indignant when people go after me personally - demanding to know my job and salary because I'm talking about the teaching profession in NY and the USA as a whole.



Again I will say, the bad experience comment was a joke. Hence the and what I said in parenthesis. Also, I didn't demand to know what you do or your salary, it was more of a rhetorical question. But if you are free to make comments about our salary then how is it not the same? Because you work for a private company? Ok, that's fine. You just sound like it's okay for you to state your opinions, but not others who do not agree with you. I'm sorry if you feel attacked, but like I've said before, the way you respond makes it difficult to not have others (or at least me personally) respond to some of what I find ridiculous. Again - stating my opinion, just like you.
teacherteacher Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by Butterflyfaye


Teachers are public servants, to educate children and paid off taxes.
Ultimately, as a result, their salaries are public knowledge and transparent.
Because they are publicly funded, affected by budget votes each May.
As such, taxpayers - just like elected officials from the president of the US down to county legislators to teachers - feel they have a right to know the public servant's salary and criticize their job. Whether you feel that's right or wrong.



Proving a point.

Use your vote each May. If the people in your area continually pass their budgets, maybe it's not just because they feel like there's no option. Maybe people vote for the budgets because they are a public good and without a solid education, there's nothing for society.

You have a right to criticize. You do not have the right to pin your frustrations solely on teachers just because they are paid by taxes, when there are many other factors involved.

mattandjess2013 Posted:

Re: NWR: Insane realization...

Posted by teacherteacher

Proving a point.

Use your vote each May. If the people in your area continually pass their budgets, maybe it's not just because they feel like there's no option. Maybe people vote for the budgets because they are a public good and without a solid education, there's nothing for society.

You have a right to criticize. You do not have the right to pin your frustrations solely on teachers just because they are paid by taxes, when there are many other factors involved.



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