Poll for Gore/Kerry voters

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Posted by myasmom

also..what happens when/if gay marraige is passed..do you think the government should force a church to marry a homosexual couple?
Its bigger than just giving rights..its people's beleifs on both sides.

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Well, my church won't marry me and my FH but we're not gay. I don't think this is really a relevant argument. I personally don't see how disallowing gays to marry is much different from a lot of the racist policies in the country prior to the civil rights movement (To Clarify: I'm not talking about slavery).

Marymoon, I'm going to be honest - if John Kerry had grown a set and said that he is 100% for gay marriage and will work to pass bills that allow for it, I would have seriously thought about voting for him. However, even the self proclaimed 'most liberal senator' wasn't for it. Unfortunately, we're pretty far off from this happening.

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Posted by myasmom

also..what happens when/if gay marraige is passed..do you think the government should force a church to marry a homosexual couple?
Its bigger than just giving rights..its people's beleifs on both sides.

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I don't think that the goverenment forces Churches to do anything. I believe it is the other way around.



I see what you are saying, but I guess that is where the church could cry 'Seperation of Church and State'.

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Posted by eogara

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Posted by myasmom

also..what happens when/if gay marraige is passed..do you think the government should force a church to marry a homosexual couple?
Its bigger than just giving rights..its people's beleifs on both sides.

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Well, my church won't marry me and my FH but we're not gay. I don't think this is really a relevant argument. I personally don't see how disallowing gays to marry is much different from a lot of the racist policies in the country prior to the civil rights movement (To Clarify: I'm not talking about slavery).

Marymoon, I'm going to be honest - if John Kerry had grown a set and said that he is 100% for gay marriage and will work to pass bills that allows for it, I would have seriously thought about voting for him. However, even the self proclaimed 'most liberal senator' wasn't for it. Unfortunately, we're pretty far off from this happening.

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YUP. I'm actually really pissed about the game he ran in this campaign. He moved closer and closer to the right at every turn, trying to court those swing voters...he tempered his anti war stance, he wouldn;t stand up for gay rights, etc etc... I was a Dean supporter form Day ! but the 'liberal' media tore his *** to shreds over nothing

Well, my church won't marry me and my FH but we're not gay. I don't think this is really a relevant argument. I personally don't see how disallowing gays to marry is much different from a lot of the racist policies in the country prior to the civil rights movement

Thats the problem..some group issues when others see each as a separate issue in itself.

Personally.. I do not condone homosexuality. Do I have gay friends..yes but thats because I do not feel it is my place to condemn anyone..

Inthink gay rights, rights for women, rights for racial minorities, it's all the same thing...

Do you know what's scary? The Civil Rights Act of 1964 does NOT protect homosexuals, so legally, you can't discriminate for jobs (Title VII) based on age, gender, ethnicity, religion or national origin, but you CAN discriminate based on sexual preference and they can't bring a federal case against you. I think that's terrible. I think it's all aprt of the same thing..

In the 60's many people thought balcks and whites should not be allowed to marry. MANY people were against the civil rights movement entirely, and cited morality as part of it, the same for ending slavery and granitng women the right to vote. Eventually, progress wins.

Personally I dont think each issue is the same structure. Slavery was race against race..Women's rights is women against men.. when it comes to homoseuality..religion comes into play and the same way people fel that it is a gay person's right to get married there are others who think it is not.
For me, I am fine with granting certain rights like healthcare etc, but marraige is where I have hesitation because of my religious beliefs.

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Posted by myasmom

also..what happens when/if gay marraige is passed..do you think the government should force a church to marry a homosexual couple?
Its bigger than just giving rights..its people's beleifs on both sides.

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The issue about gay marriage has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH!!! I think this is why there is such opposition - because people think that gays want to get married in church. NO! Not the issue AT ALL! My own husband said this to me once and I almost fainted but I quickly set him straight.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, gay marriage doesn't effect anyone except the 2 people involved so why does everyone care so much? Its not like there will suddenly be MORE gay people in the world because of it. And even if there was, SO WHAT?? Nothing will change except that there will be just a little bit less discrimination in the world. Is that such a bad thing?


ETA: Marriage was not always a religious institution - it has CHANGED to become one, but it certainly didn't start that way! It was about a man's ownership of his wife, children and property. Because women were considered LOWER THAN SLAVES they were not allowed to handle money, own property or anything. Real romantic

The legal same sex issue, (as in whether to ban it) has NOTHING to do wiht churches...churches will still make thier own decisiosn, and will most likely continue to hold their guns that marriageis between a man anda awoman..the law DOES NOT affect churches AT ALL.

What a law allowing same sex marriage would mean is that a gay couple cna go to a justice of the peace and get married LEGALLY, and if there is a rabbi or internet minister who wants to marry them, then that is perfectly legal too (thats happenning already, but it's not being recognized legally)...it has NO bearing WHATSOEVER on the church..If a law were passed allowing same sex marriages in NY state, you would NOT start seeing gay couples getting married in your church..that's just not what it's about.

ETA: Inclusion of a church has NOTHING to do with it. For example, it's perfectly legal for me, a ctholic, to marry FH,a jew, but no agent of the state can EVER make an orthodox rabbi or conservative priest perform our ceremony or allow it in their house of worship

Also, if slavery was blakc vs white, women's suffrage is women vs. ben, the same sex marriage must me homosexuals vs. heterosexuals
If you want to put it in that equation..yes..I guess it is..but religion is the factor that is affecting the latter moreso at this present time.

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Posted by myasmom

I see your point and I interject this.. A person can get married anywhere they want but MY issue is the inclusion of the church. Its a free country..so if a gay couple wants to get married at a hall..fine..but a church that follows the bible..no I have reservations when it is that specific building.

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I understand what your saying - you are against gays getting married in church. I agree with you - it is against the church's policy, they do not have to allow gay marriage in their institutions and that fight will never come!

BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT THE FIGHT IS ABOUT! It's about going to city hall and getting that little piece of paper you and I have that says that my husband and I are family. That's it in a nutshell.

I am married and did not get married in a church. I did not have one mention of God in my ceremony. Does that mean that I am not married?

Of course not!!! Because marriage is not a Religiously regulated institution, it is a state one. A clergyman(or in my case an online ordained friend) signs your marriage certificate which comes not from your church, but the state.


ETA: The state can't currently make the church marry anyone. I don't see this changing in the case of gay marriage.

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Posted by myasmom

Also, if slavery was blakc vs white, women's suffrage is women vs. ben, the same sex marriage must me homosexuals vs. heterosexuals
If you want to put it in that equation..yes..I guess it is..but religion is the factor that is affecting the latter moreso at this present time.

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Religion affectd those other issues as well. Maybe people believed it was against god's plan for women to vote, or woek, or for black and white people to intermarry. it seems totally stupid to most of us now, but that's how people saw it then. Hopefully our children will look back at our time about this gay marriage issue and be able to say 'wow, i can't believe that'

I am saying to you on behalf of what I think is acceptable for ME..not for the rest of America. Just me.
I have an understanding of what some gays want. I have homosexual friends who are very active in the cause. Some dont care about marraige..some just want acceptance and although I will not welcome homosexuality with open armms.. I willnot turn them away as human beings either like others.

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Posted by myasmom

Hopefully my daughter will not be one of them who thinks it is ok but will respect others choices.

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Right..well that's the idea.