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Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Original post by Xelindrya

Ok, awake now.
Sorry about last night.. I started to crash hard. Odd how your body shuts down on you like that. I rambled like an idiot, I hope to be more clear now.

Ok, so yes I refuse to see the movie (or at least pay for it)

Now the tickets are free so you could say “Hey it’s a free movie go for it” But I feel like its not exactly without strings attached. Nothing with religion in my experience has ever come with no strings attached.

The more I hear about bibles being handed out and Church sponsored free tickets the more I get turned off. If the Church (any of them) wants me to see this movie to ‘learn’. I assume they know I wouldn’t actually pay the ridiculous high price of $10 a movie ticket to see yet another interpretation of something I read in the bible I can’t recall how many times and something I see on every other channel for a week during Easter, then there’s GOT to be a catch. I’d rather spend my money on entertainment than seeing Christ crucified, again. They are absolutely right.

Honestly just my opinion but if it were just a promotion for the movie then other folks, OTHER THAN CHURCHES, would offer free tickets. Honestly, it’s creeping me out that churches are so heavily pushing this movie. Besides.. you think they are going to say “Oh I’m sorry, you’re already a believer, I can only give these free tickets to those who would benefit” …? I’m sure most of the tickets will go to church followers.

All that being said, lets say I just had free time and someone HANDED me tickets (cause I can’t imagine giving my name and address to a church, I’d rather get Bridal Junk mail than Church Junk mail). Lets say I go see it. I would feel as if I was inside a church all over again (since I believe any place where those who gather to worship in his name *IS* a church). I would feel like I couldn’t express myself as easily. I’m not a talker in a movie but I’ve been known from time to time to laugh at the stupidity of a movie if I find it funny. Usually I have no problem. But Religious people are taking this movie really seriously. I would feel that I had to watch everything I did and be very careful not to offend. Because A) I DON’T WANT TO OFFEND and B) God help me if I did. See if I’m honest and truthful in my opinions, I have this nasty habit of standing by them. Worse, I don’t back down. When it happens in a church I’m more comfortable, but when it happens in public you must beware. I have learned some folks are religious zealots and take great offense to a person like me who questions their beliefs or expresses their own beliefs that are opposite of that zealot. Zealots can be VERY scary people.

So to summarize (cause I’ve gotten out of hand) .. I was curious about this movie, yes, now I think I’ll just wait until it comes on Cable TV. Free tickets? I doubt it’s actually “free”.

Oddly enough, I will go see the DaVinci Code when it hits theatres hehe.

Actually if the drama of this dies down I may go see it then. When I know the people in the theatre are there just to watch a movie not push a mission or on a quest of knowledge.

It’s Hollywood people! ENTERTAINMENT!

Again, to those who do want to go see it, have fun and send back reviews. Kudos to those who are passing on the info so others who WANT to see it can see it for free. I think it’s a nice gesture by the Churches to pay for tickets.

I think that covers what it. Its an odd ball to try to wrap my mind around and then articulate into some type of understandable sense with words, but I hope I got it out ok.

Hugs to all!
This is just my opinion not really meant to start an argument. I put it on a new post just cause I don’t want to mar the post that was in all honestly just being helpful. (Thanks Kristin - June262004)

groovypeg Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by PrincessRose

However:

To say that everyone was Jewish at the time of Jesus is Ignorant. There were worshippers of Roman, Greek, Celtic, etc etc etc gods and goddesses, not to mention those of the Eastern religions. The implication of the Jews in the execution of Jesus was actually written into the gospels as a way of converting as many non-Christians as possible. This was admitted by the Roman Catholic church as part of the Second Vatican Council, the very doctrine that Mel Gibson is hoping to reverse by making this movie.



Thank you for posting PrincessRose. I could not find that information anywhere.

Ophelia42 Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by PrincessRose
ETA: I find the mentions of the Holocaust and Holocaust movies in the defense of Mel Gibson ESPECIALLY humorous, as his parents are quoted TODAY in the Daily News as calling the Holocaust 'Fiction'. Lovely, Ain't it?


I am pretty sure I have heard Mel Gibson state SEVERAL times that he does not agree with his father's views on the Holocaust. What his father believes is not his fault.
PrincessRose Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

No, what his father believes is not his fault. I just found the Holocaust mentions to be humorous and thought I'd point it out.

However, Bigotry is taught in the home.

And Mel Gibson HAS stated that he is part of the splinter Catholic Group which seeks to reverse the Second Vatican Council, which as I said, is where the Church Admits that they LIED about the Jews' responsibility for the death of Jesus.
Misty Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

My comment about 'everyone being jewish' was sarcasm.

MarcellaBella Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by Misty

I have ask...what is creeping you out about Churchs handing out tickets to this film? The film depicts the crucifiction of Christ, which is the focal point of the Catholiscim. If nothing else, this film will put a portrait of what happened to this man into the mind of Catholics that will fuel their faith...not fuel their hatred of Jews, because any Catholic with a brain in their head knows that it wasn't 'the Jews Killed Christ'..it was the 'powers that be' who HAPPENED to be Jewish that did. BECAUSE AT THE TIME EVERYONE WAS JEWISH INCLUDING JESUS.

Has anyone thought of what the reaction would be if a Holocaust film came out that showed men women and babies being walked into an oven...and actually showed what happened IN THE OVEN and didn't stop with just them walking in like most films have done???? It would have a pretty profound impact on you wouldn't it? And it would make every single person on this earth remember what happened, and not forget, and not lose sight of the goal...which is to make sure something like it NEVER HAPPENS AGAIN.

Sorry to be so graphic, I just have some pretty strong views about this whole thing.


Misty, I agree with you 100000000000000%
Becky Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by PrincessRose

The implication of the Jews in the execution of Jesus was actually written into the gospels as a way of converting as many non-Christians as possible. This was admitted by the Roman Catholic church as part of the Second Vatican Council, the very doctrine that Mel Gibson is hoping to reverse by making this movie.



Can you please point me in the direction of where you found this information. While I am aware that the Church has taken some responsibility for preaching that the Jewsih people are somehow responsible for the death of Christ, I have never heard of the Vatican stating that there was a lie written into the Bible for the express purpose of converting people. My understanding was that the problem was more what priests were saying at Church rather than what the Bible said.

I am curious to read about this, because if Jesus is not handed over to the Romans by the Rabbis, why has the Bible not been updated to tell me how he ended up before Pilate.
Misty Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Forgot to add: and callling me ignorant is just ridiculous, because you don't know me, and I believe that my post was possibly furthest thing from IGNORANCE that was posted on this thread thus far. Not everyone included obviously.

shamma Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by Becky

Can you please point me in the direction of where you found this information. While I am aware that the Church has taken some responsibility for preaching that the Jewsih people are somehow responsible for the death of Christ, I have never heard of the Vatican stating that there was a lie written into the Bible for the express purpose of converting people. My understanding was that the problem was more what priests were saying at Church rather than what the Bible said.

I am curious to read about this, because if Jesus is not handed over to the Romans by the Rabbis, why has the Bible not been updated to tell me how he ended up before Pilate.


Becky you read my mind, I was about to ask to read this info as well. I would like it for my own knowledge. Thanks
Xelindrya Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

I work for a few hours and come back to this.
WOW

First off.. I called myself an idiot.. I don't care that someone else decides to be so small as to say 'What's new' (then all i can say is.. 'what's new?'
Thank you to all were were decent enough to realize it was a cheap shot!

Most importantly:
It was MY personal opinion why *I* am not going. I owed an explanation (in my own opinion) because it came out wrong last night.

I (believe it or not) don't think anything bad about the people going to see the movie and I have no real opinions about the movie itself.

If you all want to argue the point to death, then fine. I never said bible thumpers ONLY were going. I *DID* however say it was a nice gesture of the churches to offer free tickets, just not for me. Is that so wrong?

I'll try to re-read the pages of post and reply to those issues I find that I may needed to clarify myself on, but basically it was just an opinion.
deby Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Why is this issue getting so much attention? Why is Hollywood trying to boycott this film so much? Is it really that threatening? I think if they had not tried so hard to keep it from coming out, it would not be getting this kind of attention.

Stacey1403 Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by Misty

Forgot to add: and callling me ignorant is just ridiculous, because you don't know me, and I believe that my post was possibly furthest thing from IGNORANCE that was posted on this thread thus far. Not everyone included obviously.



HappyEverAfter Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Second Vatican Council

See the link above with regard to the Second Vatican Council. It states the following:

With respect to liturgical readings, care will be taken to see that homilies based on them will not distort their meaning, especially when it is a question of passages which seem to show the Jewish people as such in an unfavorable light. Efforts will be made so to instruct the Christian people that they will understand the true interpretation of all the texts and their meaning for the contemporary believer. Ep Commissions entrusted with the task of liturgical translation will pay particular attention to the way in which they express those phrases and passages which Christians, if not well informed, might misunderstand because of prejudice. . Obviously, one cannot alter the text of the Bible. The point is that, with a version destined for liturgical use, there should be an overriding preoccupation to bring out explicitly the meaning of a text, [1] while taking scriptural studies into account.

From this, you can see the council was advocating teaching the correct interpetation of passages in the Bible. The Vatican did not admit or acknowledge any 'lie' or untruth in the Bible texts.
PrincessRose Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Becky,

That information was something my Dad showed me in a book a VERY long time ago, sometime 11 years ago, I'd imagine, and I will call him tonight and ask him about it.

And as for the revision of the bible - C'mon, you just don't do that. You don't/can't revise the bible!

There are plenty of things we have found out about the world since the Torah was written, and you just don't Revise it. Can you imagine the implications of such a revision? It just couldn't be done.
Xelindrya Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by kel2004

The more I hear about bibles being handed out and Church sponsored free tickets the more I get turned off.

Honestly, it’s creeping me out that churches are so heavily pushing this movie.

I think it’s a nice gesture by the Churches to pay for tickets.




You are totally contradicting yourself.


Where's the contradiction?
-I find it creepy the push by the church.
-But hey if it's your gig... fine by me.. nice gesture.. just not for me, thanks. It is a nice gesture, really. As in it's not a bad gesture, just creepy to me, personally.
shamma Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by HappyEverAfter

Second Vatican Council

See the link above with regard to the Second Vatican Council. It states the following:

With respect to liturgical readings, care will be taken to see that homilies based on them will not distort their meaning, especially when it is a question of passages which seem to show the Jewish people as such in an unfavorable light. Efforts will be made so to instruct the Christian people that they will understand the true interpretation of all the texts and their meaning for the contemporary believer. Ep Commissions entrusted with the task of liturgical translation will pay particular attention to the way in which they express those phrases and passages which Christians, if not well informed, might misunderstand because of prejudice. . Obviously, one cannot alter the text of the Bible. The point is that, with a version destined for liturgical use, there should be an overriding preoccupation to bring out explicitly the meaning of a text, [1] while taking scriptural studies into account.

From this, you can see the council was advocating teaching the correct interpetation of passages in the Bible. The Vatican did not admit or acknowledge any 'lie' or untruth in the Bible texts.


Thanks
yabbobay Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by Becky

I am curious to read about this, because if Jesus is not handed over to the Romans by the Rabbis, why has the Bible not been updated to tell me how he ended up before Pilate.



It took the RC Church until 1962 to admit the Earth was not the center of the universe...it just goes very slowly I guess...
Misty Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by Xelindrya


Where's the contradiction?
-I find it creepy the push by the church.
-But hey if it's your gig... fine by me.. nice gesture.. just not for me, thanks. It is a nice gesture, really. As in it's not a bad gesture, just creepy to me, personally.


I have to ask again out of curiousity...what exactly is creepy about this? Creepy how?
HappyEverAfter Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Some other interesting reading (same website)

Jesus was born of the Jewish people, as were his Apostles and a large number of his first disciples. When he revealed himself as the Messiah and Son of God (cf. Mt. 16:16), the bearer of the new Gospel messages, he did so as the fulfilment and perfection of the earlier Revelation. And, although his teaching had a profoundly new character, Christ nevertheless, in many instances, took his stand on the teaching of the Old Testament. The New Testament is profoundly marked by its relation to the Old. As the Second Vatican Council declared: 'God, the inspirer and author of the books of both Testaments, wisely arranged that the New Testament be hidden in the Old and the Old be made manifest in the New' (Dei Verbum>, n. 16). Jesus also used teaching methods similar to those employed by the rabbis of his time.

With regard to the trial and death of Jesus, the Council recalled that 'what happened in his passion cannot be blamed upon all the Jews then living, without distinction, nor upon the Jews of today' (, n. 4).

The history of Judaism did not end with the destruction of Jerusalem, but rather went on to develop a religious tradition. And, although we believe that the importance and meaning of that tradition were deeply affected by the coming of Christ, it is still nonetheless rich in religious values.

PrincessRose Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

Posted by Misty

Forgot to add: and callling me ignorant is just ridiculous, because you don't know me, and I believe that my post was possibly furthest thing from IGNORANCE that was posted on this thread thus far. Not everyone included obviously.



I did NOT say that YOU were ignorant. I said that that ONE part of your post was, and then I provided evidence to back up why that statement was incorrect. There IS a difference. And I see no sarcasm in it. I am quite tired of Christians saying 'We're all Jews' because they are not. Once you are a Christian, you are not a Jew. The two things are mutually exclusive.

As for the Second Vatican Council, they DID admit in the text that they were attempting to portray the Jews in an 'unfavorable light.' And they said revision was impossible. Any further information is unneccessary at that point in such a document. I will find the place where the rest of the history about the reasons behind portraying the Jews in such a fashion is written and post it, however the person who showed it to me is at work and (unlike the rest of us) does not have time to sit on a message board.
Ronnie&Theresa Posted:

Re: Probably a Controversial Subject: Why I won’t see Passion of Christ – especially with a free ticket. (My reply from last night's Free Ticket post)

No one cares if you want to see the movie or not.


My parents can't wait to see the movie...
They are super duper religious...

With most of her babbeling posts

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